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Need expert answer re: 80 GS850G wheels

  • Thread starter Thread starter Peter Buehner
  • Start date Start date
The Cycle World article states that MT = Motorcycle Tubeless. There are a lot of GS wheels that have this denation, but came with tubes inside. Gotta be careful about the valve stem hole is all if deciding to go tubeless.
 
Interesting thread. Both wheels on mine are 'tubeless tyre applicable' and both carry the MT designation in the rim size however the shop that does my tyres called my attention to the fact that there was a tube in the front and they replaced it because the hole was too small for the other valve.
 
Peter Buehner said:
Jeez, I wasn't trying to make anyone mad here.

I appreciate everyone's feedback.
Click to expand...

That's how we old guys learn around here...I don't want to label it...Just a school of hard knocks.

In the end, you get feedback and learn something. Anything else is just opinion. Keep up the good work!


Ed
 
Brendan W said:
Interesting thread. Both wheels on mine are 'tubeless tyre applicable' and both carry the MT designation in the rim size however the shop that does my tyres called my attention to the fact that there was a tube in the front and they replaced it because the hole was too small for the other valve.
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If thats the case they ripped you off. There are many tubeless stems that will fit in the standard hole that the same as a tube. Just because they didnt have one means they sold you a tube. This is very similar to the standard Suzuki one.... http://cdn1.bikebandit-images.com/product_images/10/450/10cameltubelessvlvstm.jpg
 
sharpy said:
If thats the case they ripped you off. There are many tubeless stems that will fit in the standard hole that the same as a tube. Just because they didnt have one means they sold you a tube. This is very similar to the standard Suzuki one.... http://cdn1.bikebandit-images.com/product_images/10/450/10cameltubelessvlvstm.jpg
Click to expand...

I'll talk to them next time the front is off. If they ripped me off it was unintentional. They loan me stuff from their workshop in return for a nominal donation to charity and they have hush hush pay when you can afford it schemes running for some less well off older riders that they think no one knows about but the bush telegraph works.
 
Thanks for posting those photos! I almost forgot I had them. The tool for facing the valve stem seat is called a counterbore and pilot. It's a 5/8" counterbore with a 5/16" pilot (or 16mm and 8mm if you speak metric.) This tool creates a nice flat face on the inside to that the valve stem can seal.

In the photo of the rim, you can see that there is indeed no retention lip. That wheel is from a 1982 GS1100G and is marked "Tubeless Tire Applicable". It actually didn't need machining to install a tubeless valve stem, but it was what I had lying around so I used it to demonstrate how the tool worked by making a very light cut.

Let me put it this way: I have helped several people convert originally tubed cast Suzuki wheels to tubeless. I've also seen many more converted. I have not heard of any issues. However, I would never actually recommend it to anyone. It's entirely up to the owner and what you're comfortable with. If you're the least bit uncomfortable with converting, then install a tube and go ride.

If you feel you want to convert, make your own judgement as to risks. If you decide to go ahead, do it correctly with a motorcycle-specific valve stem which fits the original hole without drilling (I'm personally not comfortable drilling a rim and installing a car valve stem, although some have done this with no trouble), and make sure the inside face is clean and flat so that the rubber seal on the valve stem will seal correctly.


Nessism said:
Repeating myself here but both Suzuki and Kawasaki sold "Tubeless Tire Applicable" wheels (front to be specific) that did NOT have the extra rim bumps common to tubeless wheels. Apparently these companies did not feel these features were critical to the design, at that point in time anyway. These wheels differ from the tube type wheels though in that they have a flat machined in and around the valve stem area. This allows the tubeless valve stems to have a nice flat area to seal against.

The following photos are from brwinger and show how to mod a tube type wheel to accept a tubeless valve stem. Converting your tube type wheels like that effectively make them just like the early tubeless wheels both Suzuki and Kawasaki sold.

In later years both of these manufacturers did add the extra safety bumps to the rim profile because it's a positive safety feature. Does that mean that the early wheels are unsafe? No.

Click to expand...
 
Basically. If you work in the bike industry and have a direct concern for your customers (and legal) always do how the OEM made there wheels. Its bad enough when you tell them over and over new tyres are slippery and they still throw it down the road. Thank god no cops ever showed up asking about who fitted the tyres. Yes, modify you bike but be aware of the results.
 
sharpy said:
Basically. If you work in the bike industry and have a direct concern for your customers (and legal) always do how the OEM made there wheels. Its bad enough when you tell them over and over new tyres are slippery and they still throw it down the road. Thank god no cops ever showed up asking about who fitted the tyres. Yes, modify you bike but be aware of the results.
Click to expand...

What are you really trying to say Sharpy? That opening up the valve stem hole by 1/16" is going to cause the wheel to fail? It's already been demonstrated that many of the GS bikes came with MT type wheels so going tubeless is sanctioned by the wheel makers, regardless of whether Suzuki installed a tube or not.

EDIT: and this discussion isn't about shop liability concerns.
 
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If it was me, I would run a tube in the rims that don't have a retaining lip regardless of whether it says they are tubeless or not. The retaining lip is the accepted norm for safety nowadays.

Like Sharpy said, there's enough things out there already trying to kill us, I don't need something that "might" fail added to the mix.
 
hillsy said:
If it was me, I would run a tube in the rims that don't have a retaining lip regardless of whether it says they are tubeless or not. The retaining lip is the accepted norm for safety nowadays.

Like Sharpy said, there's enough things out there already trying to kill us, I don't need something that "might" fail added to the mix.
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I realize that the lips are a good safety feature, but given that some rims don't have them what difference does it make whether or not the tire is running a tube or going tubeless? It's not like a tubeless tire is going to jump off the bead and suddenly deflate.
 
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Nessism said:
What are you really trying to say Sharpy? That opening up the valve stem hole by 1/16" is going to cause the wheel to fail? It's already been demonstrated that many of the GS bikes came with MT type wheels so going tubeless is sanctioned by the wheel makers, regardless of whether Suzuki installed a tube or not. Tubeless valve stems are not exactly subject to unexpected failure either. They are bolted to the wheel and pretty much foolproof.
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What i saying is we where covering our ass and wouldnt do tubeless unless it said tubeless. Personally i still wont do it but thats me. Do as ya wish, i was just offering advice from some one who used to do around 25 tyres every sat morning. Thats not including weekdays. Oh and my record to do a Katana with standard pipes for front and back tyre changes, balanced and ready to ride away was a fraction over 12mins. Stuff if i could do that these days. Diff folks do it diff ways. The thread title said " Need expert answer re: 80 GS850G wheels" and i gave one. Up to him or anyone to listen (thanks Hillsy :)
 
A 12 min tire change is right fine work!

Personally, up to this point, I've always used tubes in my GS bike tires that came with them. And I wouldn't convert any wheels unless the person specifically requested it and understood the risks. Thing is though, I can't think of any significant risk. Air pressure will keep the tire on the bead until the pressure drops super low. I'm not exactly sure how low, but it would have to be pretty dang low. And at that point the tire could jump off the bead regardless of whether or not there is a tube inside or not.
 
Not to drag this thread out even more, but since my wheel is labeled MT (motorcycle tubeless) and when I bought it, it had a Continental tubeless on it...I wouldn't consider this "converting". I would say that I would be running it as allowed by the OEM designation. I guess I have a few more months to decide if I am going to pull this tire and put a tube in there.
Thanks for all of the input. It is sincerely appreciated. I am soaking it all up.
Peter
 
Nessism said:
I realize that the lips are a good safety feature, but given that some rims don't have them what difference does it make whether or not the tire is running a tube or going tubeless? It's not like a tubeless tire is going to jump off the bead and suddenly deflate.
Click to expand...

It's highly unlikely for sure, but that's why they have the retaining lip - to ensure this cant happen.
 
hillsy said:
It's highly unlikely for sure, but that's why they have the retaining lip - to ensure this cant happen.
Click to expand...

If the lips are critical to going tubeless then how come so many bikes running tubeless didn't have them?
 
Nessism said:
If the lips are critical to going tubeless then how come so many bikes running tubeless didn't have them?
Click to expand...

You're talking about the time when there was the change-over to tubeless tyres (late 70's).

Every tubeless rim made after 83 or so has the lips on the rim.

You probably need to think about why that would be.
 
hillsy said:
You're talking about the time when there was the change-over to tubeless tyres (late 70's).

Every tubeless rim made after 83 or so has the lips on the rim.

You probably need to think about why that would be.
Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question. Waiting...

BTW, your timeline is off. My KZ is a 1981 and the front wheel doesn't have the bumps. Same with some GS wheels built the same time frame.
 
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