New lithium ion

[Rob S.]

My mechanic was just going over the options for a new battery for my old Suzi: an 'old-style' wet, a 'maintenance-free' (AGM?), or a lithium ion. My mind was pretty much already made up (AGM), so as I was frowning and shaking my head as he mentioned lithium, he said that up until very recently he was also not in favor of them.

But he showed me a new type (or brand) that had a very interesting feature. As I understand it, one of the negatives of lithiums is that once discharged past a certain point, they are damaged past the point of recovery (damage other components also?).

But this new type had a feature that would not let itself discharge that far. If you forget to turn the key off and leave it all night in the garage with the light on, at a certain point (before damage is done), the battery turns itself off. Then, in the morning, you press a "reset" button and it will have enough juice to start the bike.

He showed it to me and of course the weight (or lack thereof) is very impressive. I won't be going that route, partly because of the need for a second charger, or at least one that is made to switch between the two.

Anybody heard of this? Anyone have one? And does 'maintenance-free', absorbed glass mat and 'sealed' all refer to the same basic thing?

 

[fastbysuzuki]

Anybody heard of this? Anyone have one? And does 'maintenance-free', absorbed glass mat and 'sealed' all refer to the same basic thing?

There are various post on here about Lithium battery's they do not fair well on the gs's as they need a charging system designed for them.
personally I would go with an AGM battery, motobatt are good and worth the bit extra coin.

 

[Grimly]

As far as the lithium "self-protect" feature is concerned, well yeah, 18650 cells have been available with protection caps built-in for several years now. They won't let the cells go below about 3.4V iirc. If you use one of those in a flashlight it just stops working when discharged to that point, but there's usually a disernable slight dimming before you get there. Some folks don't like that and prefer unprotected cells, largely because the protected ones don't normally have the high discharge capacity of the made-for-purpose high-drain cells.
Anyway, something similar is obviously in use for the lithium bike battery you mention. It will probably be safe enough and the bonus of it stopping short of the max discharge and leaving enough to start the bike is a good feature.

AGM is absorbed glass mat, sometimes referred to a VRLA, but not Gel. Gel batteries are slightly different again. 'Sealed' can mean anything - some conventional lead-acid batteries were called 'sealed', which was essentially nonsense wording. Same goes for 'maintenance free'. Yes, essentially AGM is maintenance free, but so were some wet (flooded) LA batteries - again, nonsense.

 

[Steve]

As already mentioned, there are, indeed, batteries that will turn themselves off when discharged to a certain level. Not just lithiums, I have seen lead-acid batteries that do that, too. A lead-acid battery is a little more forgiving when overly discharged, but it's still damaged a bit.

There are different formulas for "lithium" batteries. Some (most?) of them require a different charging curve for proper charging. That "curve" requires some sophisticated circuitry, which our bikes do NOT have. Simply pumping 14+ volts into the battery will possibly damage it more than you will regain by its lighter weight.

Speaking of "weight", I am constantly amused by owners that want to install a lithium battery to save weight. Really? How much of a benefit is there to losing about 10 pounds on a 550-pound bike? If you were racing, yeah, it makes a difference, but if you were racing, you wouldn't be starting with a 550-pound bike in the first place.

The earliest "maintenance free" batteries appeared in the 1950s. They were called "maintenance free" because they only needed to have water added about three times a year. Newer designs have gotten MUCH better, to the point where we have "sealed" batteries. Even a "sealed" battery is not truly sealed, though. The process of charging creates gasses, which need to be vented. The liquid stays in a sealed battery, but gasses are allowed to vent. "Absorbed glass mat" refers to a construction style. The capacity of a battery is related to the surface area of the lead plates inside. The lead plates are interleaved, the chemical reaction happens between the plates. The plates have to be thick enough to have a bit of strength to resist a little bit of bouncing around. An AGM battery uses thinner lead plates, and uses thin plates of fiberglass that are porous enough to absorb the electrolyte. They all touch each other, which restores some strength to the thinner plates. Since the plates are thinner, there can be more of them, and the increased surface area allows greater capacity.

For most street bikes, an AGM battery will be your best bet. Lithiums might be appealing for less weight, but require sophisitcated charging circuitry, so their performance advantage really won't be all that much. Add in a MUCH higher price, the AGM wins again.

.

 

[Rob S.]

I'm thinking of going with a Yuasa AGM. Comments?

It has to be truly maintenance-free (outside of occasionally hooking up a tender) because of the difficulty of accessing the battery.

 

[Steve]

I'm thinking of going with a Yuasa AGM. Comments?

Install. Fully charge before use. Enjoy. :encouragement:

.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I put an AMG in my GS1100G because weight was not a deal breaker. 2 winters already wow!
I put a Bikemaster Lion bat in my trackbike, because weight is the deal maker.
Awesome babe magnet too!!!

 

[LAB3]

Looked all over for a Yuasa branded AGM battery and never found one, lots of others though with the Yuasa name attached but someone else's name on the case. That's fine, a big manufacturer will often build for several resellers but when that name comes up on the bargain basement brands I get leery as to what I'm actually getting.

 

[Rob S.]

Looked all over for a Yuasa branded AGM battery and never found one, lots of others though with the Yuasa name attached but someone else's name on the case. That's fine, a big manufacturer will often build for several resellers but when that name comes up on the bargain basement brands I get leery as to what I'm actually getting.

My mechanic had an old style Yuasa wet battery (actually a little surprised to see it, it was like a trip back 50 years) and a lithium ion with the "reset" feature, but said it would take him about a day to get a Yuasa AGM.