New tires, alignment / brake issues

[scott]

I had a shop replace the 15 year old tires on my GS550 with Shinko 230s yesterday. I ordered the same sizes that were on the bike (100/90/19 front, 120/90/18 back). They said the old tires had tubes in but since they didn't have the right size tubes available, they went tubeless. From what I understand, that's not a big problem. Anyway, I took a long way home (roughly 45 miles) and started noticing problems. I would periodically hear strange noises coming from I think the tires. Sometimes (like when I'd hit a bump), I'd hear a noise like something was rubbing or making contact. I made a few stops and noticed that pushing the bike was very difficult as well. At some point close to home the speedometer stopped working (just showed 0).

It seems like I have 3 problems:
1. The front tire seems to be crooked. Perhaps the front tire is sometimes hitting the front fender on cornering or bumps and is causing the noise I'm hearing. I actually think the old tire may have been crooked too but maybe the new tires are more "bulbous", causing a problem? You can see in the picture how the front of the tire is off-center.

Is there a way to adjust this? Do I try to bend the fender to align with the tire?

2. The front brake seems to be rubbing. It's VERY hard to push the bike at certain points in the front tires rotation. I'm not sure how to adjust this. It's a single disc. This is a shot of the caliper and I think the speedometer connection:

3. And of course, the speedometer stopped working. It was working when I left the shop but I have to think it's related.

Any thoughts on how to tackle these problems? I haven't done anything with the tires/suspension/brakes yet so this is new to me. I was hoping to be able to wait until the winter to tackle the brakes. I know everyone says not to trust a shop to do work on these old bikes but I really didn't think I'd have issues with a shop replacing my tires!

 

[bonanzadave]

Scott,

Bright and early tomorrow call the service manager and give him an ear-full. Chances are they put a spacer in wrong. And for sure (by your pic) oriented speedo gear box wrong (#13). Not to be a drama queen but you might tell him its a damn good thing the front wheel didnt lock up. Id tell them to bring a trailer and come and get it. Show us a close up of the front axle (both sides / view from the front). Id like to see the inside of the brake disc too. With the wheel shoved over to the right like that the brake pad and disc could be shot !

154111-47604
WHEEL, FRONT (1.85-19)
208123-63027
BEARING
354730-18400
SPACER
454711-33002
AXLE, FRONT
508314-31128
NUT
604111-30308
COTTER PIN
754740-18402
SPACER, BEARING (OD:22)
809180-15034
SPACER, AXLE (15x22x30)
908322-21128
WASHER, RH
1008322-11148
WASHER, LH
1154871-45000
COVER, RH
1254871-45010
COVER, LH
1354600-18401
BOX ASSY, SPEEDOMETER GEAR
1459211-47000
DISK, FRONT BRAKE
1509100-08140
BOLT
1609169-08016
WASHER
1755100-47030
TIRE (3.25H19)
1855200-15010
TUBE, INNER (3.25-19)
1955411-47001
BALANCER, S 0 AR (0~3) 1955412-47001
BALANCER, L 0 AR (0~3)

 

[scott]

Show us a close up of the front axle (both sides / view from the front).

Here's the front axle - right side:

Left side:

Left side close-up:

Instead of it just being shifted to a side though, the tire seems to be askew. What I mean is, on the front part of the fender the tire is shifted towards the right but on the rear of the fender, the tire is shifted towards the left. I'm not sure this pic illustrates it:

Id like to see the inside of the brake disc too. With the wheel shoved over to the right like that the brake pad and disc could be shot !

I'm not sure how to get a picture of that. Is that where the brake pads are?

 

[bonanzadave]

Nice pics and nothing jumps out at me. But that first pic head on looks like the forks are not parallel. They look closer together by the axle. Get it up on the center stand and get the front tire off the ground. Pull the axle cotter pin, loosen the axle nut and rotate the speedo drive down so the cable is not kinked ( It may already be broke) Does the wheel spin freely now ? Does it appear the brake disc is centered in the caliper ? Between the pads ?

 

[Krunk_Kracker]

I will say those are very very good tires. I used them in my build, and on our slower bikes, they are perfect.

Are you sure the front fender is just not bent, and was previously? You may not have noticed it. I find myself noticing stuff like that after I replace another item.

Also don't ever run your tires that long! 5 years MAX.

 

[hampshirehog]

Sounds as if the tyre bead didn't seat properly as well. I'd get them to put some tubes in there as well - your bike isn't designed for running without tubes.

 

[Krunk_Kracker]

Sounds as if the tyre bead didn't seat properly as well. I'd get them to put some tubes in there as well - your bike isn't designed for running without tubes.

As far as I know, it's perfectly fine...although I could be wrong.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

This is just another case of a motorcycle shop doing shoddy work on these classic bikes. I can't tell you how many stories I've read like this in the few years I've been on this forum. I'm sorry for your trouble.

I don't mount my own tires either, but I always take off my own wheels and take them to the shop to get tires mounted.

The wheels should be stamped with "Tubeless Tire Applicable" in order to safely run without a tube. I use a tubeless tire on the front of my bike but have it mounted with a tube because the wheel is not "tubeless applicable". My rear wheel does say "Tubeless Tire Applicable" so it runs without a tube.

It looks like that shop owes you a new speedometer cable.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tkent02]

3. And of course, the speedometer stopped working. It was working when I left the shop but I have to think it's related.

What a bunch of ass holes! Of course the speedometer cable broke, look at the angle it bends at where it comes out of the hub. They are intentionally screwing up your bike, no one could possibly be that stupid.

 

[scott]

Wow guys, I didn't realize it was that bad.

Sounds as if the tyre bead didn't seat properly as well. I'd get them to put some tubes in there as well - your bike isn't designed for running without tubes.

It doesn't seem to be losing air at least. Is there something you're seeing? I didn't intend to go tubeless but from what I understand, it's not completely crazy.

Are you sure the front fender is just not bent, and was previously? You may not have noticed it. I find myself noticing stuff like that after I replace another item.

I think that may be one of the problems. I do think the front tire / fender did not look completely straight before. This seems more off though. I was just guessing that maybe the tire was hitting the fender on bumps / cornering but that may not be the case.

Nice pics and nothing jumps out at me. But that first pic head on looks like the forks are not parallel. They look closer together by the axle. Get it up on the center stand and get the front tire off the ground.

As I saw in BassCliff's guide "Front Wheel/Caliper Removal", I got my car jack and a board under the front part of the bike (I think it's pushing on the oil pan basically) to get the front tire up.

Pull the axle cotter pin, loosen the axle nut and rotate the speedo drive down so the cable is not kinked ( It may already be broke) Does the wheel spin freely now ? Does it appear the brake disc is centered in the caliper ? Between the pads ?

I haven't gotten very far on this part yet. I pulled the axle cotter pin and noticed something problematic. On the right-side, one of the pinch bolts isn't there. I'm not sure why it looks like the left post is broken in the pic, but it is there.

I picked up an 8mm nut and washer from Sears last night. I'm hoping I can use that at least temporarily or do I need to get the Suzuki part?

Now to removing the axle nut: I picked up a deep 17mm socket and put a philips screwdriver in the hole on the left-side. It seems really hard to loosen. Do I just keep forcing it? I'm trying to be careful not to knock the bike off the center stand and jack.

 

[bccap]

It looks like the bushing on your right side is outside the fork. It should be flush. I had the same problem, and it took me a week to figure it out. My solution was to slack off the fender bolts, as they were pulling the forks inward. Undo the axle bolt, and fork nuts. Shake the wheel back and forth a few times. Tighten up the the axle bolts and fork nuts, once things were aligned. lastly tighten up the fender bolts as they will now no longer be able to pull the fork in.
I also had a shop install my tires. Never again ! I will take basscliffs's advice and take the wheels in. First they sent me on my way with 50 lb.'s of air pressure, which I believe is what they use to pop the bead. A loose chain, which when I went to adjust. Discovered they had put the adjusters back on with the notch on the top instead of down where the scale is. NEVER AGAIN !

 

[scott]

I'm still having trouble loosening the axle bolt. Would the fact that the right-side fork pinch bolts aren't on be making it harder?

If I rotate it the whole mechanism, it will straighten the speedometer cable but I assume that's not all I'm trying to do with the axle bolt. If I put a screwdriver in the hole on the left-side and hold that to prevent it from rotating, I can't get the axle bolt to budge. In BassCliff's guide, it looks like he's using a dinky 1/4" drive socket wrench, not some monster wrench so I must be doing something wrong. I assume they had this bolt off to do the tire change so I wouldn't expect it to be stuck on there. I even tried hitting the socket wrench with a rubber mallet to try to get it to budge. I can't really put a lot of weight into it because the bike starts moving off the center stand and jack (and I'm holding the screwdriver with the other hand).

This is what I am assuming is the axle bolt (17mm on my bike):

 

[bccap]

Looking at your photo, I see something at the bottom, and what appear to be 2 prongs at the top. Did you remove the cotter pin ? Or the shop might of over torqued the nut and you'll have to get someone to hold that screw driver. I believe the axle nut is about 36 lb.'s and the fork nuts around 20. But check in the service manual on basscliff's web site,as I am going from memory.

 

[Guest]

I can't see your pics here at work (work filter), but i did have a look last night at them. Nothing looked out-of-kilter to me, but I've had issues with those blasted spacers before.

First off, lower the front end back down so the wheels on the ground. If not already done, remove the fender.

With the bike on the centerstand, you shoud be able to loosen the front axle nut now without the the bike falling off the jack or centerstand. Once the axle nut is loose, then jack the front wheel up.

That front axle nut is supposed to be somewhat tight (approx. 38 ft lbs torque IIRC), but most likely the "wrench monkey" at the shop used gorilla force to "snug" it up. You may need a breaker bar to get it loose.

Also, not to be a wise guy, but verify you are indeed trying to loosen the nut, and not tighten it (I do this all the time).

Once loose & wheel jacked up, you may need to whack the axle a bit with a rubber mallet to remove it, remember to loosen those pinch bolts before whacking...

Drop the wheel and lay out the spacers from each side as they are removed - then compare what you had to what you're supposed to have. Take a few pics.

 

[scott]

It looks like the bushing on your right side is outside the fork. It should be flush.

I think it's that missing fork pinch bolt on the right side that is causing this. Also, the pinch bolt that is there is loose so the fork can move. If I push the fork to the outside, the fender would be further from the tire and hopefully would push the disk away from the brake caliper. It sounds like I still need to remove the axle bolt to re-adjust the speedometer mechanism though.

Looking at your photo, I see something at the bottom, and what appear to be 2 prongs at the top. Did you remove the cotter pin ?.

I just double-checked that I removed the cotter pin - must be something weird with the pic.

First off, lower the front end back down so the wheels on the ground.

I was thinking the same thing - I couldn't see any reason why it being off the ground was helping at this stage. I also put a larger screwdriver on the left-side hole to try to get more leverage. Still no luck yet - I honestly felt like something might break or bend though so I stopped.

If not already done, remove the fender.

I haven't done this - I'll do that next.

You may need a breaker bar to get it loose.

I think that may be my next step.

Also, not to be a wise guy, but verify you are indeed trying to loosen the nut, and not tighten it (I do this all the time).

Ha - I checked that a few times. It's so hard to turn I definitely had that thought. I'm standing in front of the bike with the tire between my legs and the socket wrench pointing towards the back of the bike. I'm pushing down on the socket wrench.

 

[tkent02]

Here's another idea, maybe the nut is rusted solid, so the shop bufoon took off the fork caps and changed the tire with the axle still stuck in the wheel. Whatever the reason, that shop sucks.

 

[scott]

Here's another idea, maybe the nut is rusted solid, so the shop bufoon took off the fork caps and changed the tire with the axle still stuck in the wheel. Whatever the reason, that shop sucks.

I wondered if that was possible - I guess I'll try some PB Blaster on there.

 

[bccap]

I think it's that missing fork pinch bolt on the right side that is causing this. Also, the pinch bolt that is there is loose so the fork can move. If I push the fork to the outside, the fender would be further from the tire and hopefully would push the disk away from the brake caliper. It sounds like I still need to remove the axle bolt to re-adjust the speedometer mechanism though.

That's what happened with mine. My disk was rubbing as well. But the pinch bolt won't pull the fork together. Its the fender brace that must be slackened right off. You don't need to take the fender off just make sure the nuts are really loose. So loose, the fender just rattles around. I say this because they are a pain in the ass to put in unless the wheel is off. And make sure the fender bolts are the last thing you tighten on reassembly. As for the axle nut. Mine was pretty tight and I also was working alone. I finally decided to sacrifice a screwdriver. I put the screwdriver in and stuck a board across the fork tube. So the screwdriver came up against it. Then I could concentrate on the nut. I was sure the screwdriver would break or bend, but it didn't.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

It seems that the shop put those bolts on with an air impact wrench, over torquing them and breaking one. Silly, silly bike shop mechanics.

Yes, you should be able to put a screwdriver through the hole on the other side of the axle so that you can use a ratchet to remove the axle bolt. It shouldn't be that difficult.

I'm not sure if I would take it back to that shop to make them fix it. Do you think they would do any better the second time?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[scott]

Okay - I got the axle nut off finally! I couldn't find a breaker bar but I got a 17mm impact socket (whatever that is) for my 1/2" drive ratchet and that worked better than my 3/8" ratchet. It still took a lot of effort but it's off.

So here's where I am: I loosened the 2 fender bolts, removed the axle nut and loosened the 3 fork pinch nuts (1 is missing). I tried shaking the wheel - it didn't move a whole lot.

I rotated the speedometer mechanism lower. It doesn't want to stay completely straight - it returns up some. What holds it in place? Should I hold it straight and then try to tighten the axle bolt? Or is "pretty straight" good enough?

I can turn the wheel much more easily with all the nuts/bolts loose. There is some resistance but it's not significant - I'd say it's similar to the slight resistance I have on the rear wheel.

With things loosened, it seems like the brake disc is more or less centered in the calipers although it's hard to tell. It may be slightly towards the inside part of the caliper (on the right if sitting on the bike). I tried several times to get a clear picture of it's position but they didn't come out - there's not a lot of room to fit a camera in there.

Is there something else I should inspect? Should I continue disassembling (taking out the axle, etc.)? Or do I start fastening things back up to see if things stay aligned properly?

I'm not sure if I would take it back to that shop to make them fix it. Do you think they would do any better the second time?

Right - I think I'm better off getting it sorted out myself first. At least then I'll know how it should be.