Newbie Tire/Suspension Questions

[CanadianGS850]

Hey guys,

I'm new to the GS world, or any motorcycle for that matter. I just purchased a 1983 GS850G as my first bike and my plans for the bike are to customize it slowly in to a brat style bike, hopefully over the winter. I've done most of the maintenance needed on the bike and want to start modding it now.

Now, it came with Bridgestone Spitfire tires. They seem to be in pretty good condition but have a 2007 and 2008 production dates on them. In the car world a tire older than 6 years is considered old so I assume it works the same way in the motorcycle world and I should probably change them soon.

Initially I was looking at some vintage tires like the Shinko 270 but after reading up some threads here I learnt they're tube style tires and to avoid them. Are there any other vintage style tires that look and perform good? If not I may look in to the modern tires. I'm planning to do some city riding to work and back and then some weekend cruises as well.

Suspension is another thing I'm wondering about. I briefly read somewhere about modifying the forks somehow by 20-30mm but I'm not sure how that's done. In the rear I currently have the original shocks as well, they have a dampening dial with 1-4 setting as well. I was initially going to plastidip the chrome black on it but am now considering replacing them as well. Any knowledge would be great on the do's and dont's for the suspension.

Thank you in advance and glad to have found this place!

Nabeel

 

[Steve]

The first question you need to answer is: Are you building it to LOOK at it or to RIDE it? :-k

Especially in the area of tires and suspension, it is FAR better to install parts that WORK, not just stuff that looks "right" for whatever "look" you are trying to achieve.

In fact, you say you are new to motorcycling. Have you even ridden a "brat style" bike? Have you found it to be comfortable to ride? Or do you just plan on riding it to some place to impress somebody, then ride it home?

If you plan on actually riding it anywhere for any length of time, the "brat style" might not be what you really want.

.

 

[Big T]

Yep, just ask yourself " when have I ever seen a brat style bike out on the road, or some Random spot? "

The answer will likely be "never"

What you should consider about brat style is suspension. Many are lowered and probably can't get up an average driveway apron without scraping. And, do you really want 2" of suspension travel?

Do what you want, but if you actually want to ride a motorcycle somewhere more than a few miles away, well

 

[CanadianGS850]

Definitely want it to ride well more than how it looks. To me, customizing is a way to make it unique. For example, if you really want a goldwing, you don’t just go buy any goldwing because it’s the bike you want, you select the options and colour of your choice because they LOOK the way you want it to. If I’m spending money on new tires, of course performance is number one priority but you also want it to look good too and suit the bike. And this is why I asked the question here. To gain knowledge on these things. So I appreciate the reality check guys

When I said brat style I meant the style overall without losing the key features of the bike. What I want to do is get rid of the back section of the bike and put a custom touch to the bike.

also I’m not building it to show it off to anyone or take it to any meets or random spots. I want to build it into something that represents my style and make it unique. Brat style is just a generic term I used. I want a mix of Cafe/brat/bobber features.

Ideally if I can just chop my seat and only retain the front seat somehow, that’s what I’d love to do. The seat cover is in pretty good condition but the foam inside is starting to give in and that’s what got the whole customizing idea started.

for tires I’m semi decided between the metzeler klassic and the Bridgestone battlax bt46.

 

[Rob S.]

Ideally if I can just chop my seat and only retain the front seat somehow, that?s what I?d love to do.

Remember the old axiom: measure once, cut twice.

I have found that when I've gotten a bike in it's best performing state (frequently close to stock), it just starts, after a few hours of staring, to look great.

But to each her own, and good luck.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Changing aesthetics is one thing. But changing the geometry, wheel size, ride height, suspension travel, front end rake, will all add up to make the bike not handle well at all, and uncomfortable to ride for any length of time. Your bike, do what you want.

 

[CanadianGS850]

Changing aesthetics is one thing. But changing the geometry, wheel size, ride height, suspension travel, front end rake, will all add up to make the bike not handle well at all, and uncomfortable to ride for any length of time. Your bike, do what you want.

Well that's why i'm asking. I understand leaving it stock is probably best for comfort but I thought i'd ask, in case there's slight modifications people recommend that improve the experience.

I'm not trying to make it uncomfortable. I was merely asking if there's improvements that can be made.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

I have not done this, but may people claim they get a much better feel at the front end by replacing the stock fork springs (even if they're still in spec) with straight-rate Sonic springs. Rich Desmond is a member here and is the former owner of the company. He still helps people figure out the best spring rate/spacers that will work for their bike/rider weight, etc.

Rear shocks may need updating if they're not performing. Sorry, not recommendation here.

Other than that, making sure you're running good rubber, and brakes and other mechanicals are well maintained are the biggies.

 

[CanadianGS850]

I have not done this, but may people claim they get a much better feel at the front end by replacing the stock fork springs (even if they're still in spec) with straight-rate Sonic springs. Rich Desmond is a member here and is the former owner of the company. He still helps people figure out the best spring rate/spacers that will work for their bike/rider weight, etc.

Rear shocks may need updating if they're not performing. Sorry, not recommendation here.

Other than that, making sure you're running good rubber, and brakes and other mechanicals are well maintained are the biggies.

Thank you sir! My friend has the exact same spec 1983 GS850G as mine and we noticed his front end sits a bit lower (based on the gap in suspension travel available up front) He also has twice the mileage as mine.

I'll do some research on the fork springs.

The rear shocks appear to be the original ones on mine and they appear to be okay. Do they have a certain mileage one can expect out of them and are they rebuildable when the time comes?

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

The rear shocks appear to be the original ones on mine and they appear to be okay. Do they have a certain mileage one can expect out of them and are they rebuildable when the time comes?

Sorry, no help here. Mine appear to still be working well so I haven't given it much thought. Shock life will depend on so many things: Rider weight, type of terrain most traveled, etc. I do not believe the your original shocks are rebuildable, but don't quite recall the origin of that belief. I could very well be wrong.

 

[bwringer]

Original shocks aren't the greatest quality in the first place and don't last long. And no, they're not rebuildable.

Even if they look perfect and don't leak, I've seen the damping pretty much worn out and dangerously bouncy at 15-20,000 miles.

 

[Rijko]

Hagon shocks are not too expensive and good.

 

[salty_monk]

Hagon, Ikon (Koni) and YSS seem to be the best of the shocks available at the price.... Progressives are reasonable too. The YSS are rebuildable so that might suit you better.

If you want a Shinko get the 712. If you want something more "name brand" get the Avon Roadrider (although those Metzlers have been getting some good reviews, they are a fairly new to the market tire). The main difference between the shinko & Avon is the life. The Avons will last at least twice as long but are at least twice as expensive. I use Shinko's these days as I struggle to put enough miles on to use up an Avon before they "age out".

Some here will only use a tire for 3 years past date code. I generally go to about 5yrs personally.

Welcome to the mad house.

My suggestion is to get the bike running reliably with good tires, suspension, brakes ergonomics (a lot change out the bars) electrics etc & worry about the cosmetics later. What you want will likely change once you get a few miles on. There are a lot of cheap non-running bikes out there with a hacked off rear hoop from a stalled "build" but what you want to do should be easily achievable.

If I was going to do another custom build... I would build a tracker style rather than a cafe or a brat. Comfortable, full suspension etc and should still be easy to ride for a new rider. Brats / trackers / scramblers usually have some crossover anyway. You can find some scrambler build on here. There is an australian guy - Pete who did a good log of building a scrambler from a 450.

My first bike was an 80 1000G (Tip - put your bike in your signature, saves people asking the question over & over). To be honest it wasn't the best first bike to learn on as they are a heavy old beast (almost identical to the 850G). Getting your bike running and handling and stopping (read my thread on brake upgrades - linky below) really well should be your first priority in this case.

Cheers

 

[CanadianGS850]

Original shocks aren't the greatest quality in the first place and don't last long. And no, they're not rebuildable.


Even if they look perfect and don't leak, I've seen the damping pretty much worn out and dangerously bouncy at 15-20,000 miles.

I have 26000kms (~16000 miles) They seem fine but I don't have much experience so nothing to compare with.

Hagon shocks are not too expensive and good.

I'll check them out, thank you!

Hagon, Ikon (Koni) and YSS seem to be the best of the shocks available at the price.... Progressives are reasonable too. The YSS are rebuildable so that might suit you better.


If you want a Shinko get the 712. If you want something more "name brand" get the Avon Roadrider (although those Metzlers have been getting some good reviews, they are a fairly new to the market tire). The main difference between the shinko & Avon is the life. The Avons will last at least twice as long but are at least twice as expensive. I use Shinko's these days as I struggle to put enough miles on to use up an Avon before they "age out".


Some here will only use a tire for 3 years past date code. I generally go to about 5yrs personally.


Welcome to the mad house.


My suggestion is to get the bike running reliably with good tires, suspension, brakes ergonomics (a lot change out the bars) electrics etc & worry about the cosmetics later. What you want will likely change once you get a few miles on. There are a lot of cheap non-running bikes out there with a hacked off rear hoop from a stalled "build" but what you want to do should be easily achievable.


If I was going to do another custom build... I would build a tracker style rather than a cafe or a brat. Comfortable, full suspension etc and should still be easy to ride for a new rider. Brats / trackers / scramblers usually have some crossover anyway. You can find some scrambler build on here. There is an australian guy - Pete who did a good log of building a scrambler from a 450.


My first bike was an 80 1000G (Tip - put your bike in your signature, saves people asking the question over & over). To be honest it wasn't the best first bike to learn on as they are a heavy old beast (almost identical to the 850G). Getting your bike running and handling and stopping (read my thread on brake upgrades - linky below) really well should be your first priority in this case.


Cheers

Thank you sir, this is very helpful!


They don't have to be rebuildable. I would want to get a replacement that's closest to OEM I suppose. I'll check out those brands you mentioned.


For the tires I would probably change them every 3-5 years as well. Between the Metzeler Klassic, Bridgestone Battlax BT46 and the Avons, which would be ideal for some weekend curves and daily city riding to work? Would want some good wet traction as well just in case.


So far for maintenance I've replaced the battery, done an oil change and shaft oil change. Clutch cable was worn so I replaced that and the starter from the parts bike to get the bike going. Tires are next on priority and then over the winter I would look at the suspension and a handlebar and Seat. That's pretty much the extent of what I'm looking to do.


For electronics I'm doing a LED projector retrofit and on the hunt for some bullet style dual filament turn signals for front and rear. And definitely need a louder horn as well.


I'll check out the brakes upgrades as well, thank you!

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Before you do LED anything, you'll want to update your R/R to modern series type like the Shindengen SH775. Plenty of threads about it in the archives. My tale is linked in my signature. But it's the same story as may others. Suzuki put a bad charging system in these bikes. R/R goes, then fries the stator.

 

[Guest]

If I?m spending money on new tires, of course performance is number one priority but you also want it to look good too and suit the bike.

I would have said all tires look pretty much the same?

I'm not trying to make it uncomfortable. I was merely asking if there's improvements that can be made.

Some people like lower bars, but that is very much a personal choice. Changing your seat is most likely to end up less comfortable, especially if you cut its thickness down.

I'll do some research on the fork springs.

The rear shocks appear to be the original ones on mine and they appear to be okay.

There is no research required on fork springs, straight rate springs from Sonic or Race Tech will be a vast improvement over the super soft OEM springs. As for rear suspension, your bike is 37 years old and the stock shocks weren't very good to start with. Nearly 4 decades later they are certainly toast.

Hagon, Ikon (Koni) and YSS seem to be the best of the shocks available at the price.... Progressives are reasonable too. The YSS are rebuildable so that might suit you better.

If you want a Shinko get the 712.

<snip>

My suggestion is to get the bike running reliably with good tires, suspension, brakes ergonomics (a lot change out the bars) electrics etc & worry about the cosmetics later.

This is quality advice, OP. You should heed it carefully. I use the Shinko 230 tires on my 1100E and am very satisfied with them.


Mark

 

[Steve]

Yep, Shinko 712 or 230 TourMaster tires will do nicely. VERY affordable, especially if you mount them yourself. For a new rider, they will probably last over 6,000 miles, which might be a few years.

I am one of the proponents of Sonic Springs in the forks. I have an '80 850, but have added a frame-mount fairing and saddlebags, so I have the heaviest rate they offer, 1.1 kg/mm. Depending on your riding style and personal gravitational attraction, you might get by with the 1.0 rate. Combine that with the proper amount of 10w fork oil, your front end will be set.

For the rear, Hagon or Progressive are about the best in the reasonably-priced category. You can get some cheap Chinese shocks for about $100, but the damping on them is STIFF. Spring rate isn't bad, but you have to weigh well over 400 pounds to get the damping to allow any movement. I think both Hagon and Progressive are available at Z1 Enterprises. Call them to get a selection on spring rates that would work for you. If you fall into a limbo area between a softer and a firmer spring, go for the firmer one. I got lucky with a set of Koni shocks, but had to bump up two stages on the spring rates.

.

 

[850 Combat]

As to the ride hight between yours and your friend's bike, your bike has air forks. Recommended air pressure is 8.5 to 17 psi in each leg, with a maximum pressure of 35psi, per Page 34 and 35 of the GS1000E owners manual, for the doubters here. It is common to switch to aftermarket springs as well, Progressive springs used to be popular. Now it is Sonic and Racetech. I just switched over to Racetech springs and cartridge emulators in the front of a 1000G. The suspension on these bikes was as good or better than what was available on other brands in the day. That isn't to say they don't wear out or that technology hasn't improved in 40 years.

I bought a brand new leftover 1983 GS850G in 1987. It was not as comfortable as the '81 850G I had at the same time. It had a better fit and finish though. The Black and red certainly looked better than metallic brown.

You can also lower the front of your bike by sliding the fork tubes up through the fork clamps. Make sue you don't go so far that something can impact or bind.

 

[wymple]

" on the hunt for some bullet style dual filament turn signals for front and rear."

I've gone thru a bunch of those. I wouldn't bother, unless you get some expensive stuff that came on a factory bike of some kind. Unreliable PITA stuff.

 

[salty_monk]

Yeah, I have the exact same experience with 3 or 4 Ebay sets. The best ones I found were at Cycle Gear but even though only lasted a year or so. I use the 1100E ones now. Get something OEM off something else would be my recommendation too.

Whilst looking at suspension & tyres you should also consider the brakes. At the minimum clean out your calipers & replace the lines with braided ones or install some more powerful twinpots. It's important to be able to stop (especially if your other mods allow you to carry more corner speed).