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non-tubeless wheels without a tube

J

jknappsax

Forum Mentor
Past Site Supporter
I bought a cast rear wheel on Fleabay that was supposed to be a tubeless type, and was set up that way with the beat tire that came with the wheel. (I wish he'd removed the tire, so I didn't have to pay for shipping it just to throw it out.) I had a new GT501 mounted on it, then as putting on my GS 1000, noticed that nowhere on the wheel does it say tubeless, though it has a ridge running around the inside circumference between the star spokes, as if it was meant to run tubeless. I'm not sure if this is a safe condition, and wanted to ask opinions as to whether to run this way. Any thoughts would be appreciated. This configuration will only be on until I swap over to the GSXR 1100 wheels, forks and brakes. Thanks.
 
There are lots of different threads on this subject in the archives. Bottom line is that some people with tube type rims run sans tube and others are leary of the idea. There are pros and cons both ways which have been covered in the other threads. My opinion is to run the tube.
 
if a cast rim doesn't say "tubeless tyre applicable" then it IS NOT SUITABLE FOR A TUBELESS TYRE. that is the european way anyway. if you are not sure, dont risk it
 
Agemax said:
if a cast rim doesn't say "tubeless tyre applicable" then it IS NOT SUITABLE FOR A TUBELESS TYRE. that is the european way anyway. if you are not sure, dont risk it
Click to expand...

Thing is, I don't think there is all that much risk. It's not like a flat tube inside your wheel is going to help any.
 
In principle I agree, but he obviously burned off the old tire without a tube without incident, and it doesn't leak at all. I would not have had it mounted up if I had noticed the fact that it did NOT say "tubeless", and I probably will have a tube put in it. I HAVE read many of the other threads on this subject, but needless to say, there was no clear consensus.
 
If the cast wheel does not specify Tube type tires only I would not worry about it. On spoke wheels the tube is needed because the spokes will not seal the tire. There is nothing bad about running a tube in cast wheels except for the added weight and difficulty in replacing the tire. You could consider it a little more protection from flats and a tube can be used to repair a tire with a small hole by sealing the tire. A tire with a large hole should not be repaired but if the hole is tiny it can be tubed.

I pulled tubes out of Maro's 1100E wheels and we mounted tires without them. It was harder to remove the tire with the tube in there, that is for sure, His bike is fine without tubes.
 
Agemax said:
but you cant fit a tubeless tyre safely to a rim set for tubes. the walls are different :confused:
Click to expand...

The outer rim profile is the same as near as I can tell, on tubeless though there is an inner lip which keeps the tire seated on the bead in case of deflation (which increases safety). Regardless of whether or not that inner bead is there, a tubeless tire will seal up and hold air. In case of deflation, the tire on a tube type rim can move off the bead more easily than on a tubeless wheel. The question is whether or not having that deflating tube inside would add more safety with a tube type wheel. My supposition is that the tube could, maybe, add a small measure of safety while the tire is deflating compared to not having the tube. Honestly though, it seems like a minor difference to me.
 
I've never really understood this debate. If there is any doubt whatsoever, and I'm not qualified to judge, for the sake of less than a tenner pop in a tube. Marginally safer plus only very slightly more of a pain to fit.

I've fitted tubes on tubeless rims but never the other way around.

The only real down side that I can see is when running very low pressures on eg trials bikes it is possible to spin the tube on the wheel and rip off the valve.

And you can make great giant catapults for the kids when a tube comes to the end of its life. :D
 
If you're unsure, run a tube. A tube will avg about $10 depending on where you get it and shouldn't add anything to the mounting costs if you don't mount tires yourself. if you do mount them yourself, get the tube in place, then put enough air in it until it becomes round. Don't put so much air in it so that you can't finish mounting the tire, but enough so it won't get pinched. Then apply lots of Murphys Oil Soap and you should be able to practically push the tire on by hand!
 
From what I have found out on this topic is:

Drum roll....

The Tube-type cast wheel can be porous and may leak air through the wheel.

If you are running a tubeless tire with a tube on a tube-type wheel the tire and tube will generate more heat since the tire was not designed to run with a tube, so it will eat tubes quicker.

The air valve hole through the wheel will have to be drilled larger.

I have heard just as many people running tubeless on a tubetype wheel without problem, there is even a company selling a spoke sealer band that will seal your spokes so you can run tubless on your spoked wheels, so if they are selling that, it must be safe. Besides with a flat if the design will not hold a tire to the wheel, it wouldn't hold a tube tire to the wheel either. If its set to run tubless go ahead, just check your psi before each ride, like you should anyways.
 
Does it match your front? And if so does your front say tubeless? My REAR rim does not say "tubeless tire applicable", but my front does and they're obviously of the same type. My theory is that the 19" wheel has enough room to actually print that between two sets of spokes; what I see casted into the 19" front would not fit on the 16" rear. Both rims had tires mounted tubeless when I got the bike. I mounted a new Spitfire tubeless on the rear and so far, so good. Despite reports of porosity I'm only losing about 1 psi/month.

If the tire is already mounted and you're not seeing excessive leakage I'd leave well enough alone. Why risk damaging the brand new tire with a removal and re-mount?
 
mike_of_bbg said:
Does it match your front? And if so does your front say tubeless? My REAR rim does not say "tubeless tire applicable", but my front does and they're obviously of the same type. My theory is that the 19" wheel has enough room to actually print that between two sets of spokes; what I see casted into the 19" front would not fit on the 16" rear. Both rims had tires mounted tubeless when I got the bike. I mounted a new Spitfire tubeless on the rear and so far, so good. Despite reports of porosity I'm only losing about 1 psi/month.

If the tire is already mounted and you're not seeing excessive leakage I'd leave well enough alone. Why risk damaging the brand new tire with a removal and re-mount?
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree but I've never seen a GS wheel with the extra tubeless bead on the rim that didn't have "tubeless tire applicable" imprinted on the wheel.
 
Beat up

Beat up

I just wonder how many times this poor dead horse has been sufficiently beaten? The search feature covers so many topics that have been adequately covered over and over and over and over and over.......
 
Last edited:
rockford said:
Why do you people take some kind of pride answering questions you've already supplied the answer to so many times? Is it the weather??
Click to expand...



I think it just shows the patience of the people on here and their helpfulness. Would you rather that everyone have a short fuse and flame people who ask a question just because it's been asked before? This isn't NASIOC or anything for crying out loud. I didn't hear one negative thing when I was up to the Moosehead rally. There was a lot of people there from different backgrounds and honestly not one argument. I think that goes to show the quality of people on here.
 
You don't get it!

You don't get it!

mighty13d said:
I think it just shows the patience of the people on here and their helpfulness. Would you rather that everyone have a short fuse and flame people who ask a question just because it's been asked before? This isn't NASIOC or anything for crying out loud. I didn't hear one negative thing when I was up to the Moosehead rally. There was a lot of people there from different backgrounds and honestly not one argument. I think that goes to show the quality of people on here.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not suggesting that anyone needs to be mean spirited in any sort of way; only that the search feature is an extraordinary tool and can provide far more answers than anyone will probably provide in the 5 or 6 answers that will come from posing a question that's been answered really well with hundreds of previous posts.

It's a matter of practicality and common sense. As far as your notion of "different backgrounds and not one argument", it's hard to imagine where you ever would make a connection between my post, that rally, and any kind of argument. Was there an argument?:confused:
 
mike_of_bbg said:
My theory is that the 19" wheel has enough room to actually print that between two sets of spokes;
what I see casted into the 19" front would not fit on the 16" rear.
Click to expand...
Well, I can shoot holes in your theory. :eek:

The 16" rear wheel on my wife's '82 850L has those words. :o

And we have tubeless tires fitted, front and rear. :dancing:

.
 
To Run or not to Run (A tube)

To Run or not to Run (A tube)

This is the simple solution to a simple problem.

Tube type tire: Run a tube
Tube type wheel: Run a tube

If you use the logic above...

Tubeless tire on tube type wheel: run a tube
Tube type tire on a tubeless wheel: Run a tube

I would only run tubeless if BOTH the wheel and tire are rated tubeless.
 
First, it's not like there's been clear consensus on this issue in the past. Second, the difference to me between this post and others on the same topic is that he's not asking about whether he should put in a tube or not for a new tire mount. He already has the tire mounted with no tube! He doesn't have to wonder if his wheels will be porous. He can just put air in and find out! If he didn't already have the tire mounted and he's really that concerned about it, it's $10 or so to buy a tube so just do it! But it's too late for that and the costs and stakes are higher. There's a risk (albeit slight) of damaging the tire and or the rim just to remove it, to put in a tube. Personally I'd leave well enough alone. If you want to post a pic of the rim with the tire mounted, unless it's a true spoke wheel, you'll probably get a lot of responses saying that people have been running tubeless on it for years with no issues.
 
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