Old GS handling limitations

[Sandy]

What do you mean by "wobble?"
No matter what you do, these old bikes will flex when cornering hard. You should feel the frame bending and moving around. Nothing to worry about, and I've always kind of enjoyed it.

I mean exactly what you describe, fork brace helps. I find it sort weird that you can sort push past the flexiness once you're used to it or comfortable with it.

 

[Guest]

With new Sonic fork springs, emulator, fork brace and the right fork oil, forget the air you don't need it.

 

[glib]

my 1100 es has a fork brace, emulators and rt springs up front, ikons in back and roadriders front and back. at track days, I don't notice any wobble and have ground the peg bumps off on both sides....any handling issues are due to my lack of ability rather than the bike.I would say I push about 8.5/10 at the track, not as hard as some, but much harder than I do on the street. I agree, replace the tire and go from there?

I'm going to replace the tire and add the fork brace. What rear shocks do you have and how much sag? My front feels much better with the 1.0 sonic springs but how much is too stiff and my rear feel mushy. I had half the usable range of motion (68mm) used up with sag.

 

[glib]

Are the Works 13.5" eye to clevis? That extra 1/2'' out back makes a difference, not sure if yours are that length.
I get that the air fork crossover doesn't allow lowering the forks in the triple clamps much, maybe 3mm or so but I think even that helps a hair with turn in.

I have some ancient progressive springs in my forks, but ditched the 83 forks for older 80-81's as they have some preload adjustability on top and some minimal dampening adjustment on the bottom of the fork legs, which I don't believe the 83's have. No anti-dive BS either.
I think the pvc spacer I have in the forks is about 4" long, and the preload ramp on 2 or 3 of 4.
No air in forks and 250ML of 20W fork oil per leg.

I'm pleased how well the spindly 37mm forks perform doing trackdays, considering their age amonst all the modern machinery usually on the track.
They seem to work, though I do scrape alternator in long radius left handers, might be just my girth.

My Works shocks are 13.0" eye to eye. I'll try raising the forks and adding the fork brace.

 

[Baatfam]

I mean exactly what you describe, fork brace helps. I find it sort weird that you can sort push past the flexiness once you're used to it or comfortable with it.

Yes Sir...I have a fork brace on the 1100E, plus replaced the bearings in the swing arm, steering head, and wheels a few years ago. It all helped, but you can still feel her flex, especially after riding one of my Triumphs...

 

[Guest]

ikon shocks in back, don't know the sag off the top of my head, but i set it up "correctly" when I put them on. they are a bit over length from stock, 13.5 if i remember correctly....

I'm going to replace the tire and add the fork brace. What rear shocks do you have and how much sag? My front feels much better with the 1.0 sonic springs but how much is too stiff and my rear feel mushy. I had half the usable range of motion (68mm) used up with sag.

 

[RichDesmond]

I'm going to replace the tire and add the fork brace. What rear shocks do you have and how much sag? My front feels much better with the 1.0 sonic springs but how much is too stiff and my rear feel mushy. I had half the usable range of motion (68mm) used up with sag.

Is the 68mm the front or rear sag?

 

[Tom R]

I’ve had my ‘80 GS1100L on the track with a stock front end, Hagon 14” shocks on the rear and a fresh set of shinko 230s.... I had no problems scraping foot pegs and no wobble to speak of. Would mismatched tires contribute to this?
Move heard arguments on both sides about mixing tires.

 

[glib]

Is the 68mm the front or rear sag?

Sorry I wasn't clear on this. 68mm was the total travel in the rear with the Ohlins shocks (measuring from the base of the shock body to the bump stop with the shaft fully extended) and I was 32mm of sag if I remember correctly.

 

[glib]

I guess I haven't said so yet but I'll freely admit that I have limited skills but I think I'd do better on a track where the curves are completely visible and losing the rear won't splat you into a mountainside or to unseen hazards over a drop off. That said, I do think I'm fighting something other than fear and lack of skill and I appreciate the help in tracking down the possible details I've missed.

 

[Big T]

Get your new front tire and sign up for a ERC

 

[RichDesmond]

Sorry I wasn't clear on this. 68mm was the total travel in the rear with the Ohlins shocks (measuring from the base of the shock body to the bump stop with the shaft fully extended) and I was 32mm of sag if I remember correctly.

You need to measure your rear sag properly. Follow (carefully!!) the instructions here:

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Sag

You absolutely need to have another person. Do it slowly, and do it a few times. My standard practice is 5 measurements, throw out high and low and average the middle three. Repeat the process without you on the bike also. Post the numbers and we'll go from there.

I can't over-emphasis enough how important good, accurate sag numbers are in setting up a suspension. They are very easy to get wrong. Probably half of the sag numbers I get from customers are physically impossible, which makes for very frustrating troubleshooting dialogs.

 

[glib]

You need to measure your rear sag properly. Follow (carefully!!) the instructions here:

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Sag

You absolutely need to have another person. Do it slowly, and do it a few times. My standard practice is 5 measurements, throw out high and low and average the middle three. Repeat the process without you on the bike also. Post the numbers and we'll go from there.

I can't over-emphasis enough how important good, accurate sag numbers are in setting up a suspension. They are very easy to get wrong. Probably half of the sag numbers I get from customers are physically impossible, which makes for very frustrating troubleshooting dialogs.

Well then you'll love this. I broke the spring retainer on one of my Ohlins. I ordered it from the only place I could find it which is in the UK so it'll be at least two weeks before I get them back on the bike.

I did however, follow the instructions you shared. I'm happy to do it again too to confirm my results but now I can't find where I got the range numbers. What is the correct range for the rear and where is it found?

Lastly, the shop manual says rear wheel travel is 108mm but I measure 68mm travel on the Ohlins and maybe 75 on my Progressives. What's the deal?

 

[bonanzadave]

I was left wanting in the corners.

It will always be that way on an old GS. Start saving your money for a modern performance bike.

 

[RichDesmond]

Well then you'll love this. I broke the spring retainer on one of my Ohlins. I ordered it from the only place I could find it which is in the UK so it'll be at least two weeks before I get them back on the bike.

I did however, follow the instructions you shared. I'm happy to do it again too to confirm my results but now I can't find where I got the range numbers. What is the correct range for the rear and where is it found?

Lastly, the shop manual says rear wheel travel is 108mm but I measure 68mm travel on the Ohlins and maybe 75 on my Progressives. What's the deal?

The shock is not mounted out at the end of the swingarm, so it has less travel than the axle does.

Rear sag is measured vertically from the rear axle, as outlined in that R-T article.

Total sag (what Race-Tech calls "race" or "static" sag) should be around 32-35mm. Bike sag (R-T calls it "free" sag) is critical too, but I can't give you a simple number on that, it depends on how much you weigh and and the bike's weight. Likely in the 10-15mm range for a GS, but I need the weight numbers to be sure.

 

[Sandy]

Thanks for sag guide Rich, I'll measure mine when I get the bike back together from winter maintenance. Question though, on frame 5 shouldn't that be ((L2+L3)/2)

 

[glib]

The shock is not mounted out at the end of the swingarm, so it has less travel than the axle does.

Rear sag is measured vertically from the rear axle, as outlined in that R-T article.

Total sag (what Race-Tech calls "race" or "static" sag) should be around 32-35mm. Bike sag (R-T calls it "free" sag) is critical too, but I can't give you a simple number on that, it depends on how much you weigh and and the bike's weight. Likely in the 10-15mm range for a GS, but I need the weight numbers to be sure.

As I said, it will take me some time to recheck. I'll probably have my Works shocks charged by then, but I really don't think I was off by much if any--probably because I did follow those directions. However, regarding the position of the shock vs axle, 68mm of travel at the shock would translate to 79mm at the axle and 75mm at the shock would translate to 87mm at the axle. To get 108mm of travel at the axle would require 93mm at the shock.

If the Ohlins have only 68mm of travel, 32mm of "race" sag would be half of the available travel. Could that be right? I thought that must be why I was bottoming out over tracks or coming out of a quick dip. I weigh 204 btw.

 

[RichDesmond]

Thanks for sag guide Rich, I'll measure mine when I get the bike back together from winter maintenance. Question though, on frame 5 shouldn't that be ((L2+L3)/2)

That's this line:

"The actual sag is calculated by averaging L2 and L3 and subtracting it from fully extended."

 

[glib]

With new Sonic fork springs, emulator, fork brace and the right fork oil, forget the air you don't need it.

I was about to go out and move the forks but the tubes have holes that will leak once moved out of the fittings that trap the air. Even ten mm will move them out from under the seal. Not sure what to do now. I'd have to find a way to seal the holes.

 

[RichDesmond]

As I said, it will take me some time to recheck. I'll probably have my Works shocks charged by then, but I really don't think I was off by much if any--probably because I did follow those directions. However, regarding the position of the shock vs axle, 68mm of travel at the shock would translate to 79mm at the axle and 75mm at the shock would translate to 87mm at the axle. To get 108mm of travel at the axle would require 93mm at the shock.

If the Ohlins have only 68mm of travel, 32mm of "race" sag would be half of the available travel. Could that be right? I thought that must be why I was bottoming out over track or coming out of a quick dip. I weigh 204 btw.

I think your math is probably off. There's more to it than just the ratio of swingarm pivot-shock mount distance to swingarm pivot-axle distance.

That said, could they be the wrong shocks for your bike?