permatex or not

[ddaniels]

In anticipation of removing the valve cover, I'm debating whether to use gasket sealer all the way around, or just under the half moons. I just don't want the thing to leak at all when I'm done. I hate having to redo things. Opinions?

 

[duaneage]

I use permatex 97 which seems to work well. It closely matches what Suzuki used back in the day. I did not care for Vesrah gaskets, OEM were a little better. The key is a smooth surface, I lightly sanded the surfaces with 320 grit paper to remove everything.

 

[posplayr]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_i=B000AL6WLA

This stuff is good; Use sparingly

I also "carefully" use a fine flat file to insure the surface is flat around bolts holes. You dont want deep scratches; the gaskest are all relatively hard and do not fill very well. Fine machine marks are `OK, but not deeper scratches.

Dont use Forma a gasket Permatex #2; it turns to muck with too much oil contact.
I used this alot on cars, but have stopped using for my GS.
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80011-Form-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B000HBM6NG

 

[Nessism]

If you really want a leak proof seal a very light skim coat of sealent of some sort is the way to go (that Ultra Black linked by Pos is good stuff), but know before hand that removing the valve cover for your next valve adjustment will most likely result in tearing the gasket plus a lot more clean up work to remove the old sealant residue from the gasket surfaces. Greasing the gasket will allow you to reuse the gasket but from my experience, you may get a slight amount of weapage from the gasket.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I've never used a sealant on the gasket. Good clean surface and a very light coat of bearing grease has always worked well for me. Later, the old gasket comes off so much easier too.
I've installed new half moons and thought they were aligned right and still had a leak show up later. I got tired of that and started applying a little black silicone sealant to them and that worked well.

 

[Turtleface]

I'm in the process of locating a annoying, but seemingly harmless, engine tick. I've had my valve cover off and on about seven or eight times, with the same gasket, over the space of about two weeks or so. OEM gasket, black high temp Permatex. Used Permatex sparingly. Gasket seems content to stay affixed to the valve cover each time, so I just clean up the mating surface on the head with a quick scrape (permatex stuff comes up pretty easily) and peel off the bits of Permatex stuck to the bottom of the gasket. Wipe everything down with naptha to de-oil, reapply Permatex, small bead, encircle all bolt holes. Immediately install cover, and tighten all bolts to finger-tight. You should still see a gap between the cover and the head, hopefully filled with Permatex. Let this sit for about an hour or so, then torque cover bolts to spec. The hour is important, as it lets the sealant set up, so when you torque the bolts, it's congealed a bit, and won't squish out into your engine. Only leak I have left is my cam chain tensioner.

I am, however, probably going to try out a Real Gasket, just for kicks. Seems much less messy, and less time consuming.

 

[Nessism]

Silicone ooze out is to be avoided at all costs; one small chunk that breaks off could easily clog an oil passage and toast your head. It's happened countless times before by mechanics low on savy.

If you do choose to use sealer please use it sparingly.

 

[tkent02]

I prefer occasional slight seeps to engine damage or destruction.

But that's just me, after pulling strings or silicone out of places that should have no such strings.

 

[posplayr]

I'm in the process of locating a annoying, but seemingly harmless, engine tick. I've had my valve cover off and on about seven or eight times, with the same gasket, over the space of about two weeks or so. OEM gasket, black high temp Permatex. Used Permatex sparingly. Gasket seems content to stay affixed to the valve cover each time, so I just clean up the mating surface on the head with a quick scrape (permatex stuff comes up pretty easily) and peel off the bits of Permatex stuck to the bottom of the gasket. Wipe everything down with naptha to de-oil, reapply Permatex, small bead, encircle all bolt holes. Immediately install cover, and tighten all bolts to finger-tight. You should still see a gap between the cover and the head, hopefully filled with Permatex. Let this sit for about an hour or so, then torque cover bolts to spec. The hour is important, as it lets the sealant set up, so when you torque the bolts, it's congealed a bit, and won't squish out into your engine. Only leak I have left is my cam chain tensioner.

I am, however, probably going to try out a Real Gasket, just for kicks. Seems much less messy, and less time consuming.

I agree with all of that; just that apply the RTV sparingly means squeeze it on to your finger then spread thinly onto the cover surfaces all the way around as thin as you can so it covers but that is it.

I recently saw a OEM Suzuki stator cover gasket that a stripe of RTV factory applied at the bottom of the stator cover on the straight section between rotor and starter gear locations.

You don't want to overkill with the RTV and have masses squeeze out and then come off into the engine clogging the oil passages. If you remove the cover after having allowed the RTV to dry, and re torque , you will still find there is virtually no RTV left. So by and large it will try and squeeze out.

As a general rule I also would not use anything but a dry gasket with grease on the side you want to have release. But after fighting some persistent oil leaks leads me to this Black RTV stuff as tops.

Another point is that a softer gasket will tend to fill better than some of the harder ones. The OEM gaskets seem thin and pliable (generally do not leak), while some Cometic cover gaskets are very hard and DO leak. Cometic MLS head gaskst are another story as well.

IF YOU PLAN ON USING A REALGASKET ON A 16V GS1100E DO NOT DO IT. IF THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH THEN DO SEARCH.

The simple answer here is (if you can afford it) use the OEM gaskets dry one side with some grease on the other to release. If that doesn't seal, make sure everything really is clean, careful about scratching the surfaces ; use some of this black RTV very sparingly as described.

Myself, when the above still did not work, I have resorted to using a flat file to ensure the mating cover surfaces are flat and smooth. This is kinda tricky; requires some practice and you need a fine flat file. There are essentially nothing worse than a factory machining mark when you are done. No course files and you have to keep the file clean otherwise it gums up and will gouge the aluminum. A little oil keeps things smooth and cuts well and clean.

Before anybody says anything; I had a brand new Cometic valve cover gasket split at the leading two bolts and move into the oiling area . This created a gap that caused me to loose 1 quart of oil per 100 miles on the way back from from Yosimite (I was 500 miles from home on Interstate 5).

Basically over the years this cover had been removed and scraped to the point that the surface was crowned and when it squeezed on the hard gasket it squeesed the gasket into and under the valvecover.

The file was mandaroy to fix this and generally improved my sealing across the board. FYI do not take off your cam towers and file the top of the HEAD You will ruin you cam line bore.:-\\\

 

[Turtleface]

I agree with all of that; just that apply the RTV sparingly means squeeze it on to your finger then spread thinly onto the cover surfaces all the way around as thin as you can so it covers but that is it.

I recently saw a OEM Suzuki stator cover gasket that a stripe of RTV factory applied at the bottom of the stator cover on the straight section between rotor and starter gear locations.

You don't want to overkill with the RTV and have masses squeeze out and then come off into the engine clogging the oil passages. If you remove the cover after having allowed the RTV to dry, and re torque , you will still find there is virtually no RTV left. So by and large it will try and squeeze out.

As a general rule I also would not use anything but a dry gasket with grease on the side you want to have release. But after fighting some persistent oil leaks leads me to this Black RTV stuff as tops.

Another point is that a softer gasket will tend to fill better than some of the harder ones. The OEM gaskets seem thin and pliable (generally do not leak), while some Cometic cover gaskets are very hard and DO leak. Cometic MLS head gaskst are another story as well.

IF YOU PLAN ON USING A REALGASKET ON A 16V GS1100E DO NOT DO IT. IF THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH THEN DO SEARCH.

The simple answer here is (if you can afford it) use the OEM gaskets dry one side with some grease on the other to release. If that doesn't seal, make sure everything really is clean, careful about scratching the surfaces ; use some of this black RTV very sparingly as described.

Myself, when the above still did not work, I have resorted to using a flat file to ensure the mating cover surfaces are flat and smooth. This is kinda tricky; requires some practice and you need a fine flat file. There are essentially nothing worse than a factory machining mark when you are done. No course files and you have to keep the file clean otherwise it gums up and will gouge the aluminum. A little oil keeps things smooth and cuts well and clean.

Before anybody says anything; I had a brand new Cometic valve cover gasket split at the leading two bolts and move into the oiling area . This created a gap that caused me to loose 1 quart of oil per 100 miles on the way back from from Yosimite (I was 500 miles from home on Interstate 5).

Basically over the years this cover had been removed and scraped to the point that the surface was crowned and when it squeezed on the hard gasket it squeesed the gasket into and under the valvecover.

The file was mandaroy to fix this and generally improved my sealing across the board. FYI do not take off your cam towers and file the top of the HEAD You will ruin you cam line bore.:-\\\

Yeah, I do the finger wiping thing too. Something I learned with ever-leaking valve covers on a Chevy V-8 I was rebuilding a few years ago. Friend drew a thick bead around the both of them, like he was applying silicone caulking to a bathtub, and clamped 'em down immediately. Well, that was what necessitated the rebuild, after throughly cleaning out the oil pump pickup.

So, no Real Gasket for the 16Vs? Oh well, OEM seems pretty good, and frankly, I was planning on shelling out the $25 bucks every valve check for a new OEM gasket.

 

[ddaniels]

Thanks everybody for all the good advice. I've been guilty in the past of gooping it up too much. Thankfully, nothing bad ever happened. I really don't know if I like the idea of putting grease on one side of the gasket. Would that not create sort of a conduit for oil to pass through? In other words, if the gasket is "wet" with some material, would the "wet" gasket be more suceptible to oil wicking through? I'm sure I could be wrong on this, but the thought came to my mind.

 

[tkent02]

I was planning on shelling out the $25 bucks every valve check for a new OEM gasket.

They usually only break if they've been on there undisturbed for decades, with care they can be reused many times.

 

[posplayr]

So, no Real Gasket for the 16Vs? .

The Real Gasket is known to cause the condition IPU (Involuntary Performance Upgrades); specifically cam upgrades.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I used to use silicon valve cover gaskets on my Dodge V8 but they had a metal core that the realgasket does not have. maybe they need a slight redesign or some type of inserts for the bolt holes to limit gasket compression- for the cam gear alignment

 

[posplayr]

I used to use silicon valve cover gaskets on my Dodge V8 but they had a metal core that the realgasket does not have. maybe they need a slight redesign or some type of inserts for the bolt holes to limit gasket compression- for the cam gear alignment

My wife's Q45 is that way; there is a rubber gasket that bottoms out on a metal insert. The screw is tight against the insert, but the rubber is only compressed to maintain a seal.

 

[Turtleface]

My wife's Q45 is that way; there is a rubber gasket that bottoms out on a metal insert. The screw is tight against the insert, but the rubber is only compressed to maintain a seal.

Interesting. I do plan on doing cams at some point in time, way down the road, but I'd sure like to do it when I want to, so I'll be sure to nix the ideas about Real Gasket.

 

[GS750GUY]

The Real Gasket is known to cause the condition IPU (Involuntary Performance Upgrades); specifically cam upgrades.

What are the issues against Real Gasket? My 78 GS750 with only 11,000 miles had a valve cover leak that I could not seem to stop even after very carefull and thourough cleaning of all surfaces.
The engine was blowing hot oil all over my pant legs and boots. Finally after the frustration of having the cover off three times someone suggested trying a Real Gasket. It was fairly expensive but is completely reusable and most importantly....it fixed the leak. I've had no problems since and several guys said they like the appearance of the red gasket on the engine.
Real Gasket makes high quality semi-soft red silicone gaskets for the aircraft as well as automotive, motorcycle, and other industries. So far I am very pleased.
GS750GUY

 

[Steve]

What are the issues against Real Gasket?

As far as I know, there is no problem with the gasket itself. The problem is that the gasket it thicker than the stock gasket, and for those bikes that have the tach pickup in the valve cover, rather than the head, it limits the engagement of the gears. This can lead to intermittent tach operation, followed by stripped gears. The broken gear pieces will then lead to ... , well, we better not go there.

.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

The motors that had problems with the real gasket are the ones with the tack gear in the cam cover, the thickness of the gasket is figured into the clearance for the gear. It is fine for the ones with the tack gear in the head. SO if you use a real gasket ? special attention needs to be for the cam cover to cyl head clearance

 

[posplayr]

So, no Real Gasket for the 16Vs? Oh well, OEM seems pretty good, and frankly, I was planning on shelling out the $25 bucks every valve check for a new OEM gasket.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=114320&highlight=1100E