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Poll for Compufire R/R Users

Poll for Compufire R/R Users

  • Never Installed and never plan to

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Thinking about it

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Have one on ORDER NOW

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Just installed with less than 500 miles

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Have 1000 miles on mine still going

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Have 2000 miles on mine still going

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Have 4000 miles on mine still going

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Have 10,000 miles on mine still going

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mine went OUT with 5000 miles or less

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mine went OUT with 5000 miles or more

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

posplayr

Forum LongTimer
Past Site Supporter
TGSR Superstar
EDIT: Not sure why this poll is closed? It would still be helpfully to add your post to show your experience with a SERIES R/R

Want to take a poll on how many people have installed a Compu fire R/R and how many miles you have on them. List any feedback you can.

If you installed another SERIES R/R like one of the 600 series Cycle Electric R/R include that as well.


These are the three polls to help get some statistics on Field information about charging systems.

"Honda R/R Users Poll"

Poll for Compufire R/R Users

Fried Stator Poll
FIX Chronically burning stators with SERIES R/R COMPUFIRE see GS CHARGING_SYSTEM_HEALTH
 
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Bought it and installed it on my 650GLD. I opened another thread on a post installation failure of the Stator, just under 100 miles after. Probably a latent problem. Had the Stator rewound ($45). The day I was suposed to pick it up, I had a serious accident, broke my femur in two, knee cap in four and exposed shattered tibia. So my girl will be waiting in the garage for a few months. Last Thursday, I had my son install the refurb stator. Did an open circuit voltage test. 92VAC at 5000 rpm on all phases. Now the bike is iddling at 12.8 VDC and hits 15 VDC. But that was parked and for a couple of minutes. I hope all my electrical problems to be gone now. Just waiting for the leg to heal to give it a real test.
 
I looked on the poll for those who installed a Honda RR and had any more problems after that but I guess the most economical solution is not the point of this poll.
 
I looked on the poll for those who installed a Honda RR and had any more problems after that but I guess the most economical solution is not the point of this poll.

Well. I have installed 5 of your kits and each has had more than 6000 trouble free miles since. That said, each of the stock or aftermarket R/R's I removed were working at the time. All of the charging systems I have worked on were barely charging, but I could not tell that they were going bad. It was only when testing them that issues showed up. I have never ever fried a stator or an R/R unit. On anything, for that matter.
 
I looked on the poll for those who installed a Honda RR and had any more problems after that but I guess the most economical solution is not the point of this poll.

Duaneage,
I have recommended the SERIES R/R over the Honda as a solution to burned stators that seem most prevelant in high RPM ridding. The Honda RR will not help that. I acknowledge that the 6th wire approach will solve some of the problems due to poor R/R(+) side connecttion, it will not solve all. So this is a poll about SERIES R/R's and how many if any burned stators there have been with one.

I wil start another though. How many burned stators have there been with a Honda R/R.

We dont need a poll to ask how many fired stators there are with all other 5 wire SERIES R/R's there are a bunch.

Jim
 
Not planning to fit one, too expensive and not available over here. Understand it is quite large and gets quite hot as well?

I think the FET type is the better compromise if one wants to upgrade, meaning cost and performance wise.

I am not insinuating that the Series regulator is not theoretically as good or better than the shunt type. As you know it is now possible to build the "perfect" R/R if money is not an option, but you may also need a trailer to mount it in! How about a computer controlled R/R using a charging program for all possible conditions with heat and current sensing at battery and stator, memorizing your riding habits and adapting the charging, its all possible! It may cost more than the bike is worth, but then who cares!

Jim, OK I know you are looking for some stats to prove that the Series regulator will cause the stator to outlive ones regulated by a shunt type. Due to the limited use and availability of these and the great many variables that have an impact on such a study, it is going to be an almost impossible task I think.
Good luck with it and keep well.
 
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Not planning to fit one, too expensive and not available over here. Understand it is quite large and gets quite hot as well?

I think the FET type is the better compromise if one wants to upgrade, meaning cost and performance wise.

I am not insinuating that the Linear regulator is not theoretically as good or better than the shunt type. As you know it is now possible to build the "perfect" R/R if money is not an option, but you may also need a trailer to mount it in! How about a computer controlled R/R using a charging program for all possible conditions with heat and current sensing at battery and stator, memorizing your riding habits and adapting the charging, its all possible! It may cost more than the bike is worth, but then who cares!

.

The Compufire and the Cycle Electric are not linear regulators!!! They perform synchronous rectification when power is needed else go open circuit on the stator. They are extremely power efficient because they only consume power when rectifying. When the battery voltage is sufficient there is no stator current or R/R current.

I'm starting to think that an older Honda with 6th wire might be better than the FET, but am interested to see how many people have been frying stators with a Honda.

Jim, OK I know you are looking for some stats to prove that the linear regulator will cause the stator to outlive ones regulated by a shunt type. Due to the limited use and availability of these and the great many variables that have an impact on such a study, it is going to be an almost impossible task I think.
Good luck with it and keep well.

Sorry, that is absolutely NOT the point. The SERIES regulators are NOT LINEAR and I already proved that the Compufire SERIES puts less dramatically stress on all components (R/R and stator alike) so it is not even a question.


http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/RR_Tutorial.pdf
http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/RR_Tutorial.pdf
http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/RR_Tutorial.pdf
http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/RR_Tutorial.pdf
I'm looking for any evidence of SERIES regulator failure for whatever reason. Secondarily what is the occurrence rate (percentage of whole) of Honda R/R's with fried stators.
 
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I voted never used one and don?t want to. Never had a real charging problem (stator or reg.) out of a Suzuki. The Compufire maybe a good regulator but I doubt it will make up for a 30 year old stator whose time is up or after market junk rewind.
 
I'm starting to think that an older Honda with 6th wire might be better than the FET, but am interested to see how many people have been frying stators with a Honda.
Sorry, slight tangent here, ...

I have installed an FET regulator with a 6th wire on my wife's bike.
I could not find any difference in output whether the 6th wire was connected to battery +, battery -, or left unconnected. :-k

.
 
I have changed Linear to Series in my reply.

Now you have me baffled as all of your prior comments made sense assuming you were thinking the SERIES was a linear regulator.

If all you did was change "linear" to "SERIES" (which a linear is still a SERIES) I don't understand .

The Compufire and Cycel Electric are Synchronous rectification (with synchronous cycle control) regulators.

They are SERIES but they are not linear. This last statement is the game changer.
 
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Sorry, slight tangent here, ...

I have installed an FET regulator with a 6th wire on my wife's bike.
I could not find any difference in output whether the 6th wire was connected to battery +, battery -, or left unconnected. :-k

.

I'd assume that the 6th wire is not a sense wire. The Honda 6th wire is a relatively high impedance (e.g. 10K) input to a voltage comparator to fire the SCR's. This is in contract to standard 5 wire R/R's which you the terminal voltage to control the SCR's.

The difference is that when the 5 wire R/R pushes current to the battery any voltage drop between R/R(+) and battery(+) is uncompensated and the R/R will continue putting out the 14.5 and the battery will be lower by the drops.

With the 6th wire sense, at least the voltage drop between R/R(+) and battery(+) is measured and the R/R output will rise to maintain the 14.5v at the battery to compensate for any voltage drop on that side. It does nothing about ground return drops.
 
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Now you have me baffled as all of your prior comments made sense assuming you were thinking the SERIES was a linear regulator.

If all you did was change "linear" to "SERIES" (which a linear is still a SERIES) I don't understand .

The Compufire and Cycel Electric are Synchronous rectification (with synchronous cycle control) regulators.

They are SERIES but they are not linear. This last statement is the game changer.

Jim,
I am not an expert, but this is what I perceive as a basic series regulator:
http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14179/css/14179_230.htm
I have seen the LM317 is called a series linear regulator and have used them many times in various configurations. I have seen the LTC3810 referred to as linear switch-mode regulators. Unfortunately my theoretical knowledge is sorely lacking (out of date) and more focused on the practical aspect, with the maintenance and repair thereof.
I think just disregard my comments, I know nothing about the specific brand name you are using and should have refrained from responding because of that.
MY apologies.
 
Jim,
I am not an expert, but this is what I perceive as a basic series regulator:
http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14179/css/14179_230.htm
I have seen the LM317 is called a series linear regulator and have used them many times in various configurations. I have seen the LTC3810 referred to as linear switch-mode regulators. Unfortunately my theoretical knowledge is sorely lacking (out of date) and more focused on the practical aspect, with the maintenance and repair thereof.
I think just disregard my comments, I know nothing about the specific brand name you are using and should have refrained from responding because of that.
MY apologies.

Matchless,
It can be a little confusing just going by the names; The R/R manufactures call them either SERIES or SHUNT , so I followed but tried to explain the operation in that pdf.

I'm not a power supply guy either but I understand some of the basic categories. The Compufire and Cycle Electric regulators are not any common regulator that I have found a chip for as of yet. It doesn't fit into any of your examples.

When an power supply engineer says "linear" mode, they principally mean a regulator where the primary power devices are NOT operating in saturation. Running in saturation means you are either ON or OFF. Being in saturation is good because there is very low power dissipation in the device during that time. When the switch is open there is no current so no power. When the switch is ON , there is very low voltage drop (it is a short) and so even though there is alot of current flowing, there is little power expended in the R/R because there is no voltage drop.

High efficiency switch mode regulators are principally worried about the small amounts of time they are switching between ON and OFF because that is when they dissipate most of the power.

The LM317 (is called a series linear regulator) because it is NOT switched mode and is series so it is not very efficient. It basically has to suckup any power that the source generates that doesn't go to the load. For a motorcycle, this would require a huge heat sink and (as far as I know)nobody builds these for motorcycles.


The Compufire is definitely not a linear mode device. It is SERIES (but other things are as SERIES as well, linear mode for example), so the Compufire/Cycle Electric are a special kind of SERIES.

Most switch mode (which are not linear) have free running fast switching 10K to 150K Hz for example. They also use energy storage devices external to the part (large capacitors and inductors). The faster they switch the smaller these parts are, but that trades off by the more they switch the less efficient they get. The LTC3810 is one of these devices

"LTC3810 - 100V Current Mode Synchronous Switching Regulator Controller".


The Compufire is a synchronous controller in that it operates at the source frequency which is RPM/10 for 18 poles stators. So even at 10K RPM it is only 1K hz a very low frequency for any switch mode regulator and would require huge components. So the Compufire is not really a switch mode regulator like the LTC3810 either. It is actually closer to the technology required for synchronous motor controllers.

Synchronous Rectification (SR) as used in the Compufire it turns out the same techniques are also used for high efficiency power conversion products where low output voltages mean even small voltage drops are a large part of power conversion efficiency.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-173510281975580/unrestricted/chapter2.pdf

So basically the Compufire is similar to the FET based design where it monitors the cycle by cycle stator waveforms. The SERIES Compufire either allows the power to pass (by SR) or just opens the line when it doesn't want power to pass to the battery. The FET is almost the same SR (at least the lower leg FETs), but it shorts the windings instead of opening them when the battery voltage is too high.

I provided more details in the pdf

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-173510281975580/unrestricted/chapter2.pdf

In the simplest terms the SERIES R/R is very much like the left hand headlamp switch where one of the stator legs goes through the ganged switch. If the voltage is low the stator winding is connected to a an efficent full wave rectifier. If the battery voltage is too high the switch is simply opened disconnectig the stator power from the electrical system. The decision is made during each AC cycle on each phase.

Jim
 
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Jim, apologies for messing up your poll thread, it was unintentional and thanks for all the detail. Basically I am resigned to the fact that I am just too old for all the new technology, and rather use it without knowing how it was designed.

Used to take thing apart to see how they work when I was younger, now I just work with things until they fall apart!

Keep well.
 
Jim, apologies for messing up your poll thread, it was unintentional and thanks for all the detail. Basically I am resigned to the fact that I am just too old for all the new technology, and rather use it without knowing how it was designed.

Used to take thing apart to see how they work when I was younger, now I just work with things until they fall apart!

Keep well.

No problem, the complexity of the discussion far exceed the basic simplicity of the fundamental SERIES R/R design. The SERIES R/R basically just opens the stator winding when there is too much voltage . The fact it does so in sync with the stator voltage is a detail and doesn't change the fact that the stator is not shunted which is where all the stator stress comes from in a SHUNT design . :o
 
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