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makenzie71
Guest
That'd be spiffy, if they could provide unaffiliated testing to back their products. I would love to have the shocks Lionel offers, but with rebound adjustability and an inch longer.
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makenzie71
Guest
What other forums out there might be interested in seeing whether these shocks live or die? I've got one set of shocks setup, but I really need to find second set...I've got a few donations to help cover the second set, and I've had offers to help with testing. The more people in on it, though, the better.
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makenzie71
Guest
Well, the first set of shocks are now stateside. The seller is located in France, but the shocks hit customs in San Fransisco. Definitely shipped directly from Asia.
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makenzie71
Guest
Very quick delivery. Mailed from Shang'hai on March 31, delivered to my door April 3rd.
First, I need to make sure that it's noted that Lionel is VERY helpful here, and he's been generous. Not only did he send a set of shocks to be put through the paces, he sent the "dual springs" ones that he sells for more money. He's got a pretty high opinion of them.
(pics tonight or in the a.m.)
The good:
The shocks look very good. The machine work is clean. The paint and anodizing are very smooth. Longevity of the finish can't be vouched for, but first impressions are very good.
Preload is easily set.
They DO have oil in them (or it sure sounds like there is).
The low:
No bolts are included for the clevite or adapter.
One of the clevites had burrs around the bolt hole.
The adapter seems a little shoddy. I don't trust it fully. I'll be machining a new clevite adapter from stainless I believe.
GS specific notes:
The clevite is 2mm too narrow for the bushings in the swingarm on the 1981 GS750, but the "Posh" adapter and the shock clevite are both cut the same so it may be just a matter of different bikes.
They're too short for the the 1981 GS750. I had to use the "Posh" adapters.
All in all, they look good, and the preload was easy to set. The rear is pretty firm, though, but I haven't had a chance to road-test.
First, I need to make sure that it's noted that Lionel is VERY helpful here, and he's been generous. Not only did he send a set of shocks to be put through the paces, he sent the "dual springs" ones that he sells for more money. He's got a pretty high opinion of them.
(pics tonight or in the a.m.)
The good:
The shocks look very good. The machine work is clean. The paint and anodizing are very smooth. Longevity of the finish can't be vouched for, but first impressions are very good.
Preload is easily set.
They DO have oil in them (or it sure sounds like there is).
The low:
No bolts are included for the clevite or adapter.
One of the clevites had burrs around the bolt hole.
The adapter seems a little shoddy. I don't trust it fully. I'll be machining a new clevite adapter from stainless I believe.
GS specific notes:
The clevite is 2mm too narrow for the bushings in the swingarm on the 1981 GS750, but the "Posh" adapter and the shock clevite are both cut the same so it may be just a matter of different bikes.
They're too short for the the 1981 GS750. I had to use the "Posh" adapters.
All in all, they look good, and the preload was easy to set. The rear is pretty firm, though, but I haven't had a chance to road-test.
M
makenzie71
Guest
H
hp1000s
Guest
M
makenzie71
Guest
I think that the adapter is a poor idea and should be abandoned...if you need it to stretch the gap then these shocks should be avoided. It's not a very good alloy...it's very light, but I suspect that it is safe for a tempory piece.
I'll be pulling my swingarm, though, and installing another that I've added bracing to. I'll either raise the mounts some on the swingarm or move them further up the spars...which brings me a question:
Will moving the mounts closer to the pivot bolt increase or reduce the amount of force needed to compress the shocks?
See, now, I know the longer the lever, the less force is required...but I don't know how it applies when you're looking at angles other than applying force perpindicular to the ground. Geometry is hard to write out in text, with no pictures, but I'm going to try.
Upper shock mount is A
Pivot bolt is B
Lower shock mount is C
Say right now it's all 60/60/60 (Angle ABC is 60*, BCA is 60*, and CAB is 60*), with the wheel axle being 2" beyond point C on line BC.
How would it change things if we went to something like 50/60/70 with the axle being 4" beyond point C on line BC? Is that going to reduce or increase the amount of force needed to compress the shock, or would be about the same?
Ultimately, if I want the shocks to firm up the rear, the best way would be to move the upper shock mount further from the pivot, but I would like to avoid moving the shock mounts if I could.
I'll be pulling my swingarm, though, and installing another that I've added bracing to. I'll either raise the mounts some on the swingarm or move them further up the spars...which brings me a question:
Will moving the mounts closer to the pivot bolt increase or reduce the amount of force needed to compress the shocks?
See, now, I know the longer the lever, the less force is required...but I don't know how it applies when you're looking at angles other than applying force perpindicular to the ground. Geometry is hard to write out in text, with no pictures, but I'm going to try.
Upper shock mount is A
Pivot bolt is B
Lower shock mount is C
Say right now it's all 60/60/60 (Angle ABC is 60*, BCA is 60*, and CAB is 60*), with the wheel axle being 2" beyond point C on line BC.
How would it change things if we went to something like 50/60/70 with the axle being 4" beyond point C on line BC? Is that going to reduce or increase the amount of force needed to compress the shock, or would be about the same?
Ultimately, if I want the shocks to firm up the rear, the best way would be to move the upper shock mount further from the pivot, but I would like to avoid moving the shock mounts if I could.
P
pontiacstogo
Guest
That's weird - I felt the opposite way. The alloy on the 'Posh' extenders is incredibly hard. Take a dremel or a file to it and you'll see what I mean.
When I pictured the 70mph crash that would turn me into the sausage creature I always pictured the shocks giving and not the extenders.
Or are you talking about the screw in portion for the clevis mounts?
M
makenzie71
Guest
The posh adapter isn't as poor as the chinese adapter...but I couldn't go so far as to say it's actually a posh piece. It's everything together that bothers me, not the adapter alone.
V
voivod
Guest
have been watching these shocks on ebay for quite a while . But noone has heard of them. Thanks for giving us the review as I do think I will get some .
ps can I ask what weight you are? (not being rude ...honest) As am only just 12 stone about 168lbs . So wondered if the springs were set up for a oriental weight ,not western. If I remember the original bikes in the 60/70's had this problem as were set up for japan
ps can I ask what weight you are? (not being rude ...honest) As am only just 12 stone about 168lbs . So wondered if the springs were set up for a oriental weight ,not western. If I remember the original bikes in the 60/70's had this problem as were set up for japan
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makenzie71
Guest
I weigh 152lbs.
V
voivod
Guest
M
makenzie71
Guest
Currently tearing one shock down. The shock itself is made of much better material than the clevis adapter. That's reassuring. Upon removing the spring and compressing the shock by hand I found that it does, in fact, dampen properly, but the spring overpowers it. It's a lot quieter than other shocks. I'm going to try and disassemble the shock and look into adding heavier oil...I think I'll try 20wt and see how that works...if I can get it apart and back together.
I will post pics and more info tonight, as well as update the report.
I will post pics and more info tonight, as well as update the report.
M
makenzie71
Guest
Okay it took way too long to get into this to get pics up, but I will have them posted in the next few days.
I consider this leg of the project a success...but the repercussions were disastrous (it'll be clear at the very end).
My findings are good. The bearings and oil seal are both common sizes, which means the shocks ARE rebuildable. The mechanism is very simple: shaft is attached to a perforated piston which does the damping. The oil was very light...I would say standard hydraulic stuff (about 7~10w).
Disassembly was a PITA! They use a nice glue to hold the cylinder to the casting. After removing the springs I had to lock the cylinder in a vice and beat the reservoir with a mallet to get it to break loose...had to do the same to tighten it all back up.
If you pull one of these apart, be sure there is no pressure in the reservoir or you'll make a mess. After the cylinder is detached, drain it and set it aside. Invert the reservoise and add pressure...if you pull the valve stem you can just blow in it...to drain all the fluid from there.
Filling is tricky and be forewarned, you may damage your oil seal. Start by removing the piston and shaft...just push them through the top. Then, on the bottom of the cylinder, remove the cap (you'll need a spanner or a pair of needle nose and a vice). What you have to do is use either a large drift punch...or, if you're fancy like me, a 3/8" drive extension and a 5/8" deep socket...to punch the seal out from the inside through the bottom. After the seal is out, put the piston and sahft back in from the top and screw the cylinder back into the reservoir casting. Now, fill that bad boy up with 20wt oil...you'll need to add vacuum to the reservoir to completely fill the shock. Then slide your seal over the shaft and use a slide hammer (or, again, if you're fancy, a 5/8 deep socket with a larger 3/4" drive socket over it acting as a slide hammer) to drive the seal back into place. Reinstall the cap.
Ta-da! You now have a shock that dampens well...or I do. Your results may vary, but be prepared to do it all a couple times to get it right.
The damping factor happens mostly on rebound. Bound...not so much. Add pressure to the reservoir for bound.
Uninstalling and reinstalling the springs is up to you. I made a fool of myself trying to get it all done....but I managed without a spring compressor. Tip! A spring compressor would make this much easier. Also, another good tip is to have some superglue handy and glue the lock nut on the shaft before you start putting it all back together...it will simplify the process to great degree...as would a spring compressor. Have a mentioned that a spring compressor is handy for this?
While I had this all apart I examined the mechanical travel limitations. The lock nut will bottom out on the seal cap before you reach the end of travel in the shock
Results! The bike now has noticeable damping...you can feel it and hear it. My opinion of the shock is improving all the time.
Other results! One of the "Posh" adapter broke while trying to reinstall the shocks. The alloy is far too light to be trusted. I will be building a proper clevis mount tomorrow from stainless steel. Also, since the adapter broke (luckily, when it did), I did not get to test ride the new oil.
I didn't get as many pics as would have liked but I got enough to show what the insides look like...I'll try and get them up by the weekend.
Thanks for reading!
I consider this leg of the project a success...but the repercussions were disastrous (it'll be clear at the very end).
My findings are good. The bearings and oil seal are both common sizes, which means the shocks ARE rebuildable. The mechanism is very simple: shaft is attached to a perforated piston which does the damping. The oil was very light...I would say standard hydraulic stuff (about 7~10w).
Disassembly was a PITA! They use a nice glue to hold the cylinder to the casting. After removing the springs I had to lock the cylinder in a vice and beat the reservoir with a mallet to get it to break loose...had to do the same to tighten it all back up.
If you pull one of these apart, be sure there is no pressure in the reservoir or you'll make a mess. After the cylinder is detached, drain it and set it aside. Invert the reservoise and add pressure...if you pull the valve stem you can just blow in it...to drain all the fluid from there.
Filling is tricky and be forewarned, you may damage your oil seal. Start by removing the piston and shaft...just push them through the top. Then, on the bottom of the cylinder, remove the cap (you'll need a spanner or a pair of needle nose and a vice). What you have to do is use either a large drift punch...or, if you're fancy like me, a 3/8" drive extension and a 5/8" deep socket...to punch the seal out from the inside through the bottom. After the seal is out, put the piston and sahft back in from the top and screw the cylinder back into the reservoir casting. Now, fill that bad boy up with 20wt oil...you'll need to add vacuum to the reservoir to completely fill the shock. Then slide your seal over the shaft and use a slide hammer (or, again, if you're fancy, a 5/8 deep socket with a larger 3/4" drive socket over it acting as a slide hammer) to drive the seal back into place. Reinstall the cap.
Ta-da! You now have a shock that dampens well...or I do. Your results may vary, but be prepared to do it all a couple times to get it right.
The damping factor happens mostly on rebound. Bound...not so much. Add pressure to the reservoir for bound.
Uninstalling and reinstalling the springs is up to you. I made a fool of myself trying to get it all done....but I managed without a spring compressor. Tip! A spring compressor would make this much easier. Also, another good tip is to have some superglue handy and glue the lock nut on the shaft before you start putting it all back together...it will simplify the process to great degree...as would a spring compressor. Have a mentioned that a spring compressor is handy for this?
While I had this all apart I examined the mechanical travel limitations. The lock nut will bottom out on the seal cap before you reach the end of travel in the shock
Results! The bike now has noticeable damping...you can feel it and hear it. My opinion of the shock is improving all the time.
Other results! One of the "Posh" adapter broke while trying to reinstall the shocks. The alloy is far too light to be trusted. I will be building a proper clevis mount tomorrow from stainless steel. Also, since the adapter broke (luckily, when it did), I did not get to test ride the new oil.
I didn't get as many pics as would have liked but I got enough to show what the insides look like...I'll try and get them up by the weekend.
Thanks for reading!
B
Billy Ricks
Guest
I may have missed this in your thread, but are they pressurized with nitrogen? I know many mono shocks use up to 300lbs pressure of nitrogen.
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makenzie71
Guest
Nope. The eBay listing says they're nitrogen gas charged, but the arrived sans pressure. The instructions actually say to add 2~4bar of nitrogen, or other gas. Not so fancy.
B
Billy Ricks
Guest
Charging them with nitrogen will probably stiffen them up on its own.
M
makenzie71
Guest
That's the plan...I pump them up with air and see how they handle. If I like the results I put vac to it and head to the local tire shop and have them waste an undetermined volume of nitrogen trying to put 40lbs into a two cubic inch chamber.
H
hp1000s
Guest
How about those adapters, huh? They're so cheap you could see it in a photo. Your S.S. replacements should be great!
