Possibly butchered oil change

[Guest]

Today I tried to change my oil and filter. So I do all the things, ride around so it gets warm (I wondered how it could be so inhumanely cold until I realized I forgot to zip my jacket).

First attempt the bike was leaking oil from both the drain plug and the filter cover after the few seconds start. So I tighten the drain plug, and its cured. But the filter cover kept leaking, so I tightened the bolts generously.

It did not help, I am assuming there were sand or whatever, or the new o-ring was wrong.

So I go to the store, buy more oil, and a torque thing (maybe not the right torque). Now when I unscrew the bolts I get the entire thing out (was stuck first time) on two of them, and the bottom one wont really tighten at well (managed to get it to stick by removing the little metal washer). The bolts seems to not really get proper torque...

It now holds oil fine, but Im worried about the bolts. Should I change the oil again, and this time use green loctite and prepare myself mentally for helicoling the threads next oil change? Or may I have done something else that is dumb? My worry is they will become undone while riding and Ill either get oil on my tire and die or run out of oil and be stranded and look dumb.

Also, Ive learned cleaning oil of the garage floor is a ton of work, next time Im paying the shop to do all the fluids.

 

[Brendan W]

It's very easy to overtighten the filter screws and strip the threads.
It sounds like they may be very close and helicoiling or oversizing will be needed soon.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

I wouldn't loctite that. Not there. Helicoil it NOW.

 

[Rob S.]

I've learned cleaning oil of the garage floor is a ton of work, next time Im paying the shop to do all the fluids.

Cat litter (before the cat's gotten to it). The old, cheap clay kind.

Stomp it in really good. Sweep it away, and repeat several times.

You're not a motorcyclist till you've spilled hot, dirty oil in your garage and on yourself. Welcome to the club! :lol: :lol:

 

[Guest]

It's very easy to overtighten the filter screws and strip the threads.
It sounds like they may be very close and helicoiling or oversizing will be needed soon.

So you would just leave it as is? It holds oil. Or loctite?

I wouldn't loctite that. Not there. Helicoil it NOW.

Is that a complicated procedure? I see they have a helicoil set that isn't at all unafforable.

And what about the third one where the threaded-non-bolt part is still attached inside (albeit too short to support washer and bolt (maybe I mean nut when I say bolt))?

 

[Guest]

Cat litter (before the cat's gotten to it). The old, cheap clay kind.

Stomp it in really good. Sweep it away, and repeat several times.

You're not a motorcyclist till you've spilled hot, dirty oil in your garage and on yourself. Welcome to the club! :lol: :lol:

I washed it off with our high pressure hose (I assume the drain has a oil filtering device since its a shop garage), and hte high pressure hose has hot water. A ton of it seemed to do the trick.

I wish I started with mechanical stuff when I was younger. I am so clumpsy and unorganized.

 

[Guest]

Reading the manual for the helicoil set, I think that is something I can manage.

How do I remove the last stuck threaded stick? Just torque it until it gives?

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Drilling it out is best.

 

[2BRacing]

Today I tried to change my oil and filter...?.. next time Im paying the shop to do all the fluids.

?..I wish I started with mechanical stuff when I was younger. I am so clumpsy and unorganized.

?..third one where the threaded-non-bolt part is still attached inside (albeit too short to support washer and bolt (maybe I mean nut when I say bolt))?

?..How do I remove the last stuck threaded stick? Just torque it until it gives?

I think most of us have made some mistakes while learning to work on our bikes - but rest assured, you will never make that same mistake again! The guy who will work on your bike at the shop was not even born yet when your bike was made, so it is much better to read the OEM manual and maybe watch some YouTube videos, ask questions here on GSR, and rather do all the work yourself! It will give you so much pleasure when riding your bike to know that you have worked on it yourself, and the more you do it, the more organised you will become!

Just to help you with the proper names for the fittings you are having trouble with: the rounded nut that you remove with a 10 mm spanner is called an "acorn nut" because of its shape. The acorn nut screws onto a threaded "stud", which turns into the engine case. A "bolt" is a threaded fastener that has its own "head" onto which a spanner fits.

You remove that third stud by clamping a "vice-grip" pliers onto it and turning it a small way anti-clockwise, then a small way clockwise again, and continue small anti-clockwise and clockwise movements until it is turned out all the way. The reason for the small back-and-forth movements is to prevent damage to the threads in the engine case. Do NOT turn the stud further in ("torque it until it gives")!

Usually the outermost threads of the studs, where the acorn nuts screw on, get damaged from over-tightening the nuts - the other end of the studs where they screw into the engine case are usually not damaged. Just replace all three studs and acorn nuts with OEM parts. Use Loctite on the threaded part that screws into the engine case, and not on the outer part where the acorn nuts screw onto. To turn the studs into the engine case, put two "normal" nuts (not the acorn type) onto the outer part of the stud and tighten them against each other using two 10 mm spanners, and then turn on the outer nut to thread the stud into the engine case.

I am not sure if the other two studs on your bike are stripped just on the outside where the nut goes, or if the threads in the engine case are stripped. If so, a helicoil will be needed, but do not go oversize, because there is not much material around the threaded holes in the engine case.

Years ago, I stripped the outer threads of two of the three studs because I always tightened the filter cover against the spring pressure of the filter cover without first pushing the cover against the engine case with my other hand, because the exhausts were hot. Lesson learned, so now I do not get the engine so burning hot before an oil change, and use a glove on my other hand to push the cover against the engine case, so that I can screw the acorn nuts on mostly by hand. Finally tighten bit by bit with a spanner. It is only a 6mm fastener, and does not have to be gorilla tight.

Good luck! I hope to see more pictures of your beautiful countryside on your rides soon!

 

[Guest]

I think most of us have made some mistakes while learning to work on our bikes - but rest assured, you will never make that same mistake again! The guy who will work on your bike at the shop was not even born yet when your bike was made, so it is much better to read the OEM manual and maybe watch some YouTube videos, ask questions here on GSR, and rather do all the work yourself! It will give you so much pleasure when riding your bike to know that you have worked on it yourself, and the more you do it, the more organised you will become!

Just to help you with the proper names for the fittings you are having trouble with: the rounded nut that you remove with a 10 mm spanner is called an "acorn nut" because of its shape. The acorn nut screws onto a threaded "stud", which turns into the engine case. A "bolt" is a threaded fastener that has its own "head" onto which a spanner fits.

You remove that third stud by clamping a "vice-grip" pliers onto it and turning it a small way anti-clockwise, then a small way clockwise again, and continue small anti-clockwise and clockwise movements until it is turned out all the way. The reason for the small back-and-forth movements is to prevent damage to the threads in the engine case. Do NOT turn the stud further in ("torque it until it gives")!

Usually the outermost threads of the studs, where the acorn nuts screw on, get damaged from over-tightening the nuts - the other end of the studs where they screw into the engine case are usually not damaged. Just replace all three studs and acorn nuts with OEM parts. Use Loctite on the threaded part that screws into the engine case, and not on the outer part where the acorn nuts screw onto. To turn the studs into the engine case, put two "normal" nuts (not the acorn type) onto the outer part of the stud and tighten them against each other using two 10 mm spanners, and then turn on the outer nut to thread the stud into the engine case.

I am not sure if the other two studs on your bike are stripped just on the outside where the nut goes, or if the threads in the engine case are stripped. If so, a helicoil will be needed, but do not go oversize, because there is not much material around the threaded holes in the engine case.

Years ago, I stripped the outer threads of two of the three studs because I always tightened the filter cover against the spring pressure of the filter cover without first pushing the cover against the engine case with my other hand, because the exhausts were hot. Lesson learned, so now I do not get the engine so burning hot before an oil change, and use a glove on my other hand to push the cover against the engine case, so that I can screw the acorn nuts on mostly by hand. Finally tighten bit by bit with a spanner. It is only a 6mm fastener, and does not have to be gorilla tight.

Good luck! I hope to see more pictures of your beautiful countryside on your rides soon!

I really apprechiate your post. Today has been frustrating, I was expecting a quick, pour oil out, take filter out, filter in, oil in, go ride again. But instead it was an ordeal and I just got frustrated. Thank you for taking the time.

I have new "acorn nuts", I got an ebay set of mostly shiny "ikea bolts (?)" but also some allan screws and acorn nuts for the oil filter cover. I don't have new studs, and Im not sure how to quickly obtain such studs to norway. My work garage (where my bike currently resides) has a motorcycle repair shop next to it, I might ask if they can source the bolts and acorn nuts for me, preferably quickly.

Do you use the vice grip pliers head on, or at a 90 degree angle?

To turn the studs into the engine case, put two "normal" nuts (not the acorn type) onto the outer part of the stud and tighten them against each other using two 10 mm spanners, and then turn on the outer nut to thread the stud into the engine case.

So if I understand this correctly, one nut on each end of the outter half, and then turn the nut furtherest away from the engine block? Both on the outside "half" of the stud? How do I get the inner (closest to engine) off?

Is the studs something I could get at a hardware store or a bike store? Or do it have to be oem? If it has to be, I understand, but having this bike has been a nice escape from being furloughed and I am so sad I messed this up.

I love doing work on the bike, I took the tank and carbs and airbox off to check why its backfiring somewhat while cold and idle. And its sooo simple. Lots of space and accesible.

My vocabulary when it comes to motorized things is so limited, when I lived in scottland we didn't have a car. And I lack the words for a lot of these concepts in Norwegian. I would say its 60/40 lack of technical experience and lack of english skill.

If I have to wait for new OEM parts I will ask my boss if I can have one of the yamahas, but it won't really be the same (I find this one a lot more fun to ride than the tracer 700).

 

[Rijko]

I came across this nice video, it may help a bit in choosing
your way to approach the repair.

 

[Rijko]

The "double nut" method mentioned should be the first try,
if there's enough thread for 2 nuts to grab the stud.

The methods shown in the video are next.

The people on GSR will be there to advice on which method is best depending on what the studs or leftovers of the studs require.
The movie will help you understand their advice.

 

[Steve]

When you get new studs for the oil filter, note that there is a non-threaded portion near the center.

Put the shorter end into the engine, leaving the longer end to hold the cover on.

.

 

[Rijko]

Don't lose heart, keep that enthousiasm you've shown,
with the help of these GRS folk you will get this.
And as already said, you will enjoy having learned to
make a proper repair and ride the bike proudly
because you did it yourself :encouragement::encouragement:

 

[Guest]

The "double nut" method mentioned should be the first try,
if there's enough thread for 2 nuts to grab the stud.

The methods shown in the video are next.

The people on GSR will be there to advice on which method is best depending on what the studs or leftovers of the studs require.
The movie will help you understand their advice.

Two of the studs will come out with the acorn nuts, the last one seems to be about one washer too far into the engine.

I will order new studs, washers (my friend said I should use copper?) and acorn nuts tomorrw.

I also want to try to see if it holds the oil (first Ill check the oilpan, then Ill ride around in the neighbouerhood at slow speeds to see if heat/pressure affects it).

According to the video, if the threads arent bad on the studs, you probably didn't mess up the engine part. If that is true, I just messed up the studs and/or acorn nuts.

A set of helicoils are fairly cheap so it should all be okay, but worried about waiting for weeks (I am bored to death, dealing with financial stress of not working, and so on) without riding. I just want to drive off into the sunset(s) (we have two per 24 hour here in the summer). This bike is sooo managable, I thought a 1000cc would be like scary, but its so mellow, but still will go FAST if you tell it to. So balanced. I am also falling in love with the self cancelling indicators, why doesnt everything have it? Why havent anyone found something equal or better since 1981?! I will stay safe, but god I want to fight every instinct I have and just do a quick fix and get back on the road. Irrational, stupid? probably. But it is how I feel.

I now regrett messing with the filter, I should have just replaced the oil and called it a day. But Im an experience richer, and I do hope me an this bike will be a team for the forseable future. I just need some luggage thing.

 

[Rob S.]

You need to show us a picture of your fast, balanced lady. A lot of the guys here say, "If we can't see a picture, it didn't happen."

 

[GS1150Pilot]

You need to show us a picture of your fast, balanced lady. A lot of the guys here say, "If we can't see a picture, it didn't happen."

Rob, have you looked at the photos he posted in this thread?

 

[Rob S.]

Rob, have you looked at the photos he posted in this thread?

I've gone through the thread several times. All I can find is a video posted by someone else.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Noreg’s beautiful pics of his bike in the Norwegian landscape are is this thread. Go to the most recent posts in the thread.

 

[Guest]

I thought Id give a little update.

I went down to look at the bike, it seems to be not leaking. I decided to put it on the center stand, and I manged to drop it (first time). Didn't seem to damage anything, but spilled some gasoline. Nice knowing that it is suprisingly easy to pick up. Then I drove it around the city for a bit to heat it up, still no sign of oil leaking. I parked it in the garage without the oil pan, so if it leaks Ill see the stains and get to wash the floors again.

Two of the acorn nuts are the new one from the ebay kit of shiny ikea bolts. And two of them are stuck to the studs, so I am fairly certain that those to will hold. The one where the stud is sligthly to far in is a bit of a worry though.

The weather is terrible today and I wasn't really getting in the flow, so I think I will forgo todays ride. I've almost driven 400km this season!

I also got the old oil returned to the recycling place.

I guess Ill wait til tomorrow, inspect the floor and if it all seems good I will replace all the studs and acorn nuts when I need my new oil change in a few weeks (also gives me time for them to arrive). If there is oil on the floor I guess Ill have to let it sit.

How do you change the oil when you are out and about? With 3000km oil change intervals it has to happen quite often. Even a quick go to the capital and back would hit that.

It may seem I have been too quick to conclude the threads are stripped. I think the studs are wonky though.