Rectifier/Regulator replacement list

[Matchless]

Hi,
Please help me to keep this list up to date by posting any information on the regulators you come across so that the members can use this to determine any replacements.
Please give as much information as possible, model and make of vehicle, full number on regulator, whether it works properly on the GS and if the holes/size match or wires need changing etc.

Some information. Most bikes use 3 Yellow wires for the AC from the alternator to the Regulator, Yamaha used 3 white Wires and Suzuki used a Yellow, White/Green and a White/Blue. Suzuki used specific colours as some of their regulators in the late 70's had only regulation on one phase and another switched on and off via the light switch, they did not want the regulated phase and light phase to be swopped if the same colour.

This list below shows what model bike uses what model of regulator. Usefull if you do not know off which bike it comes or need to know if your bike uses the same current rating etc. I will edit/update it if you post any changes or additions in this thread, just keep on reminding me. Blue highlighted ones are suitable for the GS, so please help me here to get this up to date. The list is not 100% correct and was compiled from info skimmed off the internet, I just compiled it, so any changes and additions are welcome and will help others.
Hopefully someone can give us some more of the current ratings at some stage for some models.

It is important to note is that these R/R's have been built to do the same function for over 30 years now and have undergone some internal variations over this period. They were also built for different current ratings, used on different types of charging systems and the later ones are obviously fitted with the latest internal electronic components. Some are for 6V sytems and some are for single phase or 3 phase alternators, usually 12V. There are also older units from the late 70's where the regulator and rectifier could be separate units. A replacement regulator for the GS range of bikes should preferably be a 3 phase shunt regulator/rectifier with a 25A rating (or 35A if you can find one) and will work on any of these bikes and allow a safe margin. Smaller capacity units may overheat and cause early component failure depending on the rating of the charging system and battery (12A, 16A, 20A and 25A). Do not assume that the existing R/R is the correct one as a PO may have fitted a lower rated one in error thus resulting in R/R failure after a period of time and refitting the same may just repeat the problem. Finally there are some regulators that physically look similar to the GS type shunt regulators, but they are actually for field winding controlled alternators such as used by Honda on the Larger CB750 to 900 range and some others. These are NOT interchangeable with shunt type regulators and will not work on a GS!

Make & Model R/R Brand R/R Model Description
Honda CB100 Shindengen S4B-01
Honda CB125T Shindengen SH231-6 6V
Honda CB200/350 Hitachi RS21
Honda CB250RS Shindengen SH232-12 12V 18 Amps rating
Honda CB400/VT750/VTR1000 89-90 Shindengen SH633-12 12V
Honda CB450A, FT500 82-87 Shindengen SH532-12 12V 35 Amps rating
Honda CB500/4 Shindengen S4T-05
Honda CB500/4 Hitachi TL1Z-38 12V
Honda CB750 79-80 Shindengen SH236-12 12V Field winding type, not suitable for GS
Honda CB750 79-80 Hitachi TL1Z-38 12V Regulator only
Honda CB750,1000 94-95 Shindengen SH261-12 12V
Honda CB750F Shindengen SH236B-12 12V Field winding type, not suitable for GS
Honda CB900,750,400F 81-83 Shindengen SH236A-12 12V Field winding type, not suitable for GS
Honda CBR1000FP Shindengen SH261-12 12V
Honda CBR1000RR 06-07 Shindengen SH678B 12V 35 Amps rating, 15.1 V
Honda CBR1000RR 08 Shindengen FH-008EB 12V FET 40 Amps rating (with wire tails and plugs)
Honda CBR1000RR 08 Shindengen FH-014AA 12V FET 50 Amps rating
Honda CBR1000RR 05? Shindengen SH775 12V Series 35 Amps rating, 14.0 - 15.0V
Honda CBR250-MC18 Shindengen SH572-12 12V 16 Amps rating, 14.7 V
Honda CBR400RR SK 30SE1 12V
Honda CBR600, CB1/400 Unknown RGU107
Honda CBR600F2 Shindengen SH633-12 12V
Honda CBX250 Shindengen SH525A-12 12V
Honda CBX250FG Shindengen SH525A-12 12V
Honda CBX250RS/NS250R/NS400R Shindengen SH532-12 12V 35 Amps rating
Honda CBX400/CB750FA Shindengen SH236A-12 12V Field winding type, not suitable for GS
Honda CBX550 Shindengen SH236B-12 12V
Honda CBX750F2F Shindengen SH255A-12 12V
Honda CH125 Elite Scooter 84 Shindengen SH532-12 12V 35 Amps rating
Honda CM200 Shindengen SH225-6 6V
Honda CM200 Shindengen SH231-6 6V
Honda CMX250 Shindengen SH535A-12
Honda CT200 Shindengen SH571-12 12V
Honda GL1000 75-78 Toshiba 57T-01
Honda GL1000 79 Shindengen SH232-12 9.0 12V 18 Amps rating
Honda GL1000, 1100,1200 80-87 Shindengen SH541C-12 12V 25 Amps 14.4 V(about 1/8" wider & slight mod to fit GS)
Honda GL1000K1 Shindengen S7T-01
Honda GL1000K1 76 Unknown 5H5 12V Rectifier only
Honda GL500 81 Shindengen SH238-12 1.2 12V
Honda GL1100 Shindengen SH238-12 12V
Honda GL1100 Shindengen SH538-12 12V (8 Wire, double pos & neg, sense, holes 3mm further apart ream with a drill bit to fit GS)
Honda GL1100A 82 Shindengen SH538-12 12V (8 Wire, double pos & neg, sense, holes 3mm further apart ream with a drill bit to fit GS)
Honda GL1200 84-86 Shindengen SH574A-12 12V
Honda GL145 Shindengen SH5421-15 15V
Honda GT250 Stanley DE2903
Honda LEAD 80 Shindengen SH515-12 12V
Honda Magna V45 82 Shindengen SH543-12 2.2 12V
Honda Magna V-45 84 Hitachi TS10TR1S-L
Honda MVX250/CB900 Shindengen SH236-12 12V Field winding type, not suitable for GS
Honda NS250R/NS400R/CBX250RS Shindengen SH532-12 12V 35 Amps rating
Honda NSR250-MC16, GZ125Y Shindengen SH572A-12 12V 16 Amps rating, 14.7 V
Honda Silverwing Shindengen SH538-12 12V (8 Wire, double pos & neg, sense, holes 3mm further apart ream with a drill bit to fit GS)
Honda Superdream Shindengen SH232-12 12V 18 Amps rating
Honda TRX300, Fourtrax300 88-92 Shindengen SH532B-12 12V 35 Amps rating
Honda VF750/1000 Shindengen SH541-12 12V 25 Amps 14.4 V(about 1/8" wider & slight mod to fit GS)
Honda VFR700 86 Shindengen SH236-12 9.2 12V Field winding type, not suitable for GS
Honda VT/VN750 Shindengen SH556-12 12V
Honda VT250FG/MC17 Shindengen SH538-12 12V (8 Wire, double pos & neg, sense, holes 3mm further apart ream with a drill bit to fit GS)
Honda VT600,VLX 91-05 Shindengen SH538D-13 13V
Honda VTR1000F 99 Shindengen SH632-633
Honda VTR250 Unknown 30SE1 Late/spada
Honda XL185S Shindengen S4B-01
Honda XL250 Shindengen SH542-12 8.6 12V
Honda XL600 Shindengen SH542-12 12V
Honda XLV600V 89-90 Shindengen SH538A-12 12V (8 Wire, double pos & neg, sense, holes 3mm further apart ream with a drill bit to fit GS)
Honda Unknown Toshiba 4H7-50
Honda Unknown Stanley DE3804
Honda Unknown Kokusan Denki RS2125
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH223-6 6V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH514-12 12V
Honda 125R2 Shindengen SH522B-12 12V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH523-6 6V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH542-12 12V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH542-6 6V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH543-12 2.3 12V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH557B-12 12V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH570-12 12V
Honda Unknown Shindengen SH582A-12 12V
Honda Unknown Hitachi TR1Z-30

List continued on next page.............

 

[Matchless]

Rectifier Regulator list part 2

Rectifier Regulator list part 2

.........List continued from previous page

Kawasaki Concours 1400GTR 08-09 Shindengen FH-012AB FET 50 Amps rating 14.4V-15.0V
Kawasaki GVZ 600R Shindengen SH555-12 6.12
Kawasaki GPX600 Shindengen SH650-12 18 Amps rating (has 6 pins)
Kawasaki KLT250,200 Shindengen SH522-12B 12V
Kawasaki KZ400,200,650, 750 Shindengen SH521-12 12V
Kawasaki KZ440 LTD Unknown 3G1-501.G3 Field coil type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Kawasaki KZ454 Shindengen SH255-12 3.2 12V
Kawasaki KZ750 Shindengen SH530-12K 12V 20 Amps rating (brown - voltage sense wire, connect to switched +12V)
Kawasaki Ninja 600 94-96 Shindengen SH650A-12 4.6.112V
Kawasaki ZR750 Shindengen SH650-12 18 Amps rating (has 6 pins)
Kawasaki ZX636, 636 Ninja, 6R 04 Shindengen SH650FA-12 3.8083
Kawasaki Unknown Shindengen SH522-12 1.N 12V
Kawasaki Z750 Shindengen SH530-12 12V 20 Amps rating (brown - voltage sense wire, connect to switched +12V)
Kawasaki ZX10/14, R1, FJR 05-06 Shindengen FH-010AA 12V FET 50 Amps rating 14.3V -15.1V
Kawasaki ZX10 2005 Shindengen FH-010BA 12V FET 50 Amps rating 14.3V -15.1V (mounting holes 3 mm wider than GS, may need bracket)
Suzuki DL1000 Vstrom Shindengen SH678A-12 12V 35 Amps rating, 15.1V
Suzuki DR350 Stanley SU245S
Suzuki FXR150 Shindengen SH572F-12 12V 16 Amps Rating
Suzuki GF250 Shindengen SH535A-12 12V
Suzuki GN125/250 Stanley SU217S-2
Suzuki GS1000GT 80 Hitachi TS10TR1S-L
Suzuki GS125 Stanley SU217S- 6V
Suzuki GS400 NipponDenso 137600-0011
Suzuki GS450 Kokusan Denki RS2142
Suzuki GS550 Mitsubishi DS16TES-L
Suzuki GS550ET Unknown 4712
Suzuki GS750 Stanley DE3802 15V
Suzuki GS750/1000 NipponDenso 137600-0011 12V Regulator only
Suzuki GS750/1000E NipponDenso 137600-0030 12V Rectifier only
Suzuki GS850 NipponDenso 137700-0010
Suzuki GS1100E 84 Unknown 5SB-BL 4.8
Suzuki GSX1100ET NipponDenso 137700-0020
Suzuki GSX250 95 Hitachi RS21
Suzuki GSX250EX Kokusan Denki RS2142
Suzuki GSX250SSM Shindengen SH572C-12 45D 12V 16 Amps rating, 14.7V
Suzuki GSX400 Unknown 4712
Suzuki GSX400ED/EZ Unknown 4413
Suzuki GSX400X Unknown 30B0 IMPULSE
Suzuki GSX750 Unknown 30B0
Suzuki GSXR250 Shindengen SH572-12 12V 16 Amps rating, 14.7 V
Suzuki GSXR400 Unknown 33C0
Suzuki GSXR400RL Unknown 3300
Suzuki GSXR600 01 Unknown RS41
Suzuki GSXR600K Kokusan Denki RS4172
Suzuki GSXR600K6 Unknown RS41
Suzuki GSXR750K2 Unknown RS41
Suzuki GT185 NipponDenso 32500-36110
Suzuki GT250 Stanley 1B2C
Suzuki GT380 NipponDenso 45281
Suzuki GT380,500,750 NipponDenso 026000-2222 12V Regulator only
Suzuki GT380/750 Mitsubishi DS10TW-1
Suzuki GT550 Stanley 15S4B20
Suzuki LS650, SV650, DR750 Shindengen SH535A-12 12V
Suzuki RG125 Shindengen SH5530-13 13V
Suzuki RG150, 125 Shindengen SH553B-13 13V
Suzuki RG250 WD/WE1/F Unknown 40A0
Suzuki RG400 Unknown 20A0
Suzuki RGV250M Unknown 22D0
Suzuki RGV25O 89 Hitachi? 20A0
Suzuki SV650K3 Unknown RS41
Suzuki SV650SX Unknown AC4124B1
Suzuki SV650SX Shindengen SH535C-12 12V
Suzuki TL1000S/R 97-00 Shindengen SH579A-12 12V
Suzuki TS250ER NipponDenso 126900-0011
Suzuki VS700, 600 Shindengen SH576-12 12V
Suzuki VS800 Shindengen SH567-12 12V
Suzuki X7 Kokusan Denki RS2139
Suzuki XZ400 Shindengen SH238 12V
Suzuki Unknown NipponDenso 137600-0012
Suzuki Unknown NipponDenso 137700-0040
Suzuki Unknown Unknown 20A0
Suzuki Unknown Stanley DE2904
Suzuki Unknown Mitsubishi DS16TES-L 15V
Suzuki Unknown Kokusan Denki RS2106
Suzuki Unknown Kokusan Denki RS2142
Suzuki Unknown Shindenden SH539-13 13V
Suzuki Unknown Shindengen SH548-12 12V

 

[Matchless]

......Continued from previous page

Yamaha 500 Hitachi SB6B-15 12V Rectifier only
Yamaha 500cc Hitachi TR1Z-17 12V Regulator only
Yamaha DT125/175 Stanley Unknown regulator
Yamaha DT500 75-76 Stanley SRS-610 6V
Yamaha FJR 2006 R1 Shindengen FH-012 12V FET 50 Amps rating 14.5
Yamaha FJR13 2007 Shindengen FH-012 12V FET 50 Amps rating 14.5V
Yamaha FZ600 Shindengen SH230-12 9.4 12V
Yamaha FZ1 Shindengen SH650C-11 14.1V - 14.9V 18 Amps rating
Yamaha FZ6 Shindengen SH719AA 14.1V - 14.9V 25 Amps rating
Yamaha FZ600 Shindengen SH233 12V
Yamaha FZR600 95, VFR750 Shindengen SH650-12 12V
Yamaha FZS600 Shindengen SH650-12131
Yamaha FZS10 2007 Shindengen FH-012 12V 50 Amps rating 14.5V
Yamaha JOG50 Stanley SU232Y
Yamaha Maxim 650 82 Toshiba 4H7-502.DZ
Yamaha Maxim 750 Unknown 67141
Yamaha PASSOLA Stanley SU20BY
Yamaha RD Mitsubishi RFT12M2 12V Rectifier only
Yamaha RD200 Hitachi T107-58
Yamaha RD400 Shindengen SH235-12 12V 15 Amps rating
Yamaha RD500 Shindengen SH569-12 12V
Yamaha RX1 03 Shindengen FH-001 12V FET 40 Amps rating 14.1V - 14.9
Yamaha Seca 750 81 Shindengen S4T-05
Yamaha Seca 750 81 Shindengen SH530-12 1.8 12V 20 Amps rating
Yamaha SR250 Shindengen SH222-12 12V
Yamaha SR500 Shindengen SH235 14.5V 15A rating
Yamaha SS50 Stanley DE2304
Yamaha TT500 Unknown 376-AO
Yamaha TDM850 97 Shindengen SH650A-12 14.1V - 14.9V
Yamaha TZR125 Shindengen SH239
Yamaha TZR250 Shindengen SH569 25A rating
Yamaha Virago 535 Shindengen SH569A-12T3.N
Yamaha Virago 750 Shindengen SH238 12V
Yamaha Virago 920 83 Shendengen SH238 12V
Yamaha XJ550 81 Toshiba SB515 Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha XJ600/900 Shindengen SH233 12V
Yamaha XJ650/XJ750 Toshiba S8534A 15A rating Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha XJ750, 400 Shindengen SH233 12V
Yamaha XS1100 Unknown RD1143 RG
Yamaha XS1100 Shindengen SH233
Yamaha XS250/400 Shindengen SH233 12V
Yamaha XS400 Stanley DE3804 Rectifier only
Yamaha XS400/XJ550/XJ650 Unknown 3G1-xxx.xx Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha XS650 79 NipponDenso 026000-2790
Yamaha XS750 Shindengen SH233
Yamaha XS850 Shindengen S4T-05
Yamaha XV750 Shindengen SH238/157
Yamaha YZF-R1 02 Shindengen FH-001 12V FET 40 Amps / 200V rating 14.1V - 14.9V
Yamaha YZF-R1 04-06 Shindengen FH-011AA 12V FET 50 Amps / 100V rating 14.3V - 15.1V (has very tall fins, consider if enough space)
Yamaha YZF-R1 2007 Shindengen FH-012AA 12V FET 50 Amps / 40V rating 14.2V - 14.8V
Kawasaki YZF R6 Shindengen SH650-12 18 Amps rating (Has 6 pins)
Yamaha Snowmobile 07/08 Shindengen FH-012AA 12V FET 50 Amps / 40V rating 14.2V - 14.8V
Yamaha Unknown Toshiba 4H7-501.B3 Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha Unknown Toshiba 4H7-501.B3 Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha Unknown Toshiba 4H7-501.A3 Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha Unknown Toshiba 4H7-501.K2 Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha Unknown Toshiba 4H7-502.A4 Field regulated type only (7 wires green & brown for field)
Yamaha Unknown Shindengen SH233 9.0.1
Yamaha Unknown Shindengen SH546-12 12V
Yamaha Unknown Hitachi TL1Z-38B
Arctic Cat 650 H2 Shindengen SH541KD 25 Amps rating, 14.4V (bolts fit GS, large shape)
Unknown Shindengen SH753AA 32 Amps rating, 14.5V
Unknown Shindengen SH782 22 Amps rating, 14.5V
Unknown Shindengen SH785AA 28 Amps rating, 14.5V
Unknown Shindengen SH775AA 27 Amps rating, 15.5V
Unknown Shindengen SH678LB 35 Amps rating, 15.1V with tach option
Unknown Shindengen SH640D 22 Amps rating, 14.7V
Unknown Shindengen SH821 32 Amps rating, 14.5V
Unknown Shindengen FH-019 FET 50 Amps rating, 14.2V

 

[Matchless]

Can anyone help with more current ratings for the regulators? It will help to make the list more useful to all.

 

[Matchless]

Honda type charging

Honda type charging

Here is a schematic to show how Honda (CBR1000RR 2004) uses the 5 wire regulator. A 6th sense wire was also used on some models of regulators and can be connected directly to the battery or via a switched supply (ignition) if the model of regulator draws some leakage current from the battery when not in use. Both of these types can also work very well on the Suzukis.

 

[Matchless]

Suzuki older charging system

Suzuki older charging system

Here is a schematic of the older Suzuki type charging system, it has not changed much. Note that the W/G and W/R wires are plugged into each other. This used to be the older method of switching that phase into the circuit when the headlights were switched on. This was later removed and connected as shown below as the wiring, connectors and switches in this part seemed to fail after some time. Correct this on your bike if not already done.


Here is a later (early 1980's) type regulator showing the actual switching of the 3rd phase for the headlights. Around that time the bikes still had the wiring running to the front but was just plugged together as is shown on the wiring diagrams.
[URL=http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=ntmfmz2yzwr&thumb=4]
[/URL]

 

[Matchless]

Later Suzuki charging sysytem

Later Suzuki charging sysytem

Here is a schematic of a later Suzuki(VX800 1990-93) charging system, not much has changed except that the later regulators, regulate all three phases and use a better/modern type of internal regulation with an ignition switched sensing wire. Delta type stator configuration for the USA was most likely for the headlights always on requirement, giving slightly higher current at lower RPM's ( my guess only).

 

[bwringer]

Here is a schematic of a later Suzuki(VX800 1990-93) charging system, not much has changed except that the later regulators, regulate all three phases and use a better/modern type of internal regulation with an ignition switched sensing wire. Delta type stator configuration for the USA was most likely for the headlights always on requirement, giving slightly higher current at lower RPM's ( my guess only).

My VX800 is wearing a Honda R/R, from a Sabre 700... works great, and it was nice that there was already a switched wire in the harness for the sense wire! I also mounted it on the side of the bike where it can get some airflow, instead of barely an inch from the exhaust pipe.

I never could find any solid info on why the US had Delta vs. Wye stators, but it doesn't make any difference to the regulator.

 

[Matchless]

Here is the ultimate regulator

Here is the ultimate regulator

The new Shindengen 50A rectifier using FET's for shunt regulation. These should be bullet proof!! Has anyone used this? It seems as if the practice of a special sense lead was only used for a short while and discontinued on newer models.

 

[posplayr]

SCR's begone

SCR's begone

I might be reading something into that schematic as to physical location of the R/R, but if that device is located right across the battery and has good physical connections with only the single inline fuse then a separate sense wire is not necessary.

The sense wire is mainly needed because of the circuitous routing of the typical GS harness between the R/R and the battery.

Notice that the device only has 1/2 of a full wave rectifier with means it is likely to only drop 1/2 as much power in those power Diode devices. Also the SCR's are now replace by FET's . It is also possible that the lower 1/2 of the missing rectifies bridge is implemented in the control function of the FET's.

If I remember correctly, if the FET's are turned on during the negative cycle of the respective legs from the "magneto", then the device acts just like a full wave rectifier but without regulation. As the FET "ON" times are extended into the positive portion of the magneto outputs, there is a reduction of the output voltage because now a portion of the positive portion of the waveform is also being shunted to ground.

This works because there is a much smarter controller/logic in the R/R (see "Cont") to switch the FET's in sync with the magneto waveforms. This device is probably so much more efficient to hardly dissipates any power and you can hang it right off the battery eliminating the need for a sense wire.

Best R/R on the market today is the Shindengen FH012AA used on the late (06+) Yamaha FJR, R1 among others
It is a MOSFET controlled device rather than the crude SCR type and a 50A rated device.
MUCH better voltage regulation and runs cooler too.

http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?p=1326017

I just found on on Ebay for about $75 delivered (including CA sales tax)

More:

SHINDENGEN ELECTRIC MFG.CO.,LTD Shindengen introduced the first FET based shunt regulator in 2000. FH012 [Regulator Rectifiers: FET series ...

 

[Matchless]

Jim,
I just took it for granted that because most of the advice on the forums was to rather fit a Honda unit as they were more robust and that they use a 6th wire for sensing purposes, that these were then better. On some Honda forums it is quite amazing to see the problems they also have with the charging circuit.
When I tried to find an actual Honda charging schematic I found that most of those I have use 5 wires and that for a short time Honda did actually use a 6 wire one with a sense wire, but they have done away with that quite a while ago it seems. (If someone knows otherwise please correct me). I actually was under the mistaken impression that Honda used that aproach quite widely and that it was one of the reasons for their reliable charging systems.

For example the Suzuki VX800 in the early 90's also used a sense wire, so maybe that was the time Honda also used that approach, meaning that Shindengen made them during that period. They seem to have been phased out again since then and most if not all are back to 5 wire. My guess is that there either was no long term advantage above the non sensing one or problems when age and dirty connections started.

I have to venture a guess that Honda most likely used an "over engineered" unit like maybe a 35A capability, but specified for say 25A and this made them more robust. Again these were built for all the UJM's by Shinengen who also manufacture the electronic parts so they should not have been using poor quality parts in Suzuki and better quality for Honda models as some models were used as OEM parts on various brands.

I would not think that 30 year old technlogy electronic components that have been in constant use and maybe abused over that period, even if it was a Honda unit, or specifically because it used a sensing wire (maybe later discarded as not successfull) would really be a good idea to fit as a reliable replacement, except from a budget point of view when new ones are exhorbitantly expensive.

The use of FETs is quite interesting especially replacing the one side of the full wave rectifier and so also reducing the component count and at the same time reducing the failure posibilities. The footprint is quite small and obviously it will not be running at high temperatures when working hard, being 50A rated. Again Shindengen manufactures the controlling IC and most likely have one that is not sold to anyone, but just for their own assembly plants.
I have also seen a schematic using triacs in place of SCR's, but do not know what advantage there would be.

 

[posplayr]

Matchless

Matchless

As previously described 6 wire is not the "end all and be all". If you take the basic SCR based shunt regulator that Suzuki installed on the GS it had several problems most which have been described here. In comparision, the Honda units are very similar, but seem to have been designed for larger power dissipation (physically larger) and with the 6th sense wire they at least were not as prone to voltage fold back as I have described as associated with resistance between the positive leg of the R/R and the battery. The circuit topology is probably very similar to GS models otherwise and that is about where the benefits end between the Honda 6 wire v.s. the stock GS models.

The primary issue with the simple permanent magnet (rotor) AC generator on many motorcycles is that there needs to be an efficient way of shunting (shorting) power to ground when the generator is putting out more power than the system wants to use. Shunt regulation is brute force in a sense and so is generally limited to situations where there is limited power to deal with.

On power circuits like this you want to minimize components that are dropping voltage and carrying the full supply current. The diodes in the full wave bridge (GS and 6 wire Honda) are dissipating power and carrying the primary power. The SCR control was also doing the same. Both of these devices (diodes and SCR) are not particularly efficient. The diodes drop about 0.8V in saturation and the SCR is probably well over 1V. A FET can carry teh same current but will drop much less voltage than this as the FET on resistance is essentially zero.

On the positive side, the Diodes and SCR need very little to control the on/off of current conduction. The SCR has a reference it needs to provide closed loop regulation. On the other hand the FET's have no intrinsic voltage sensing and require "smart" on/off signals from a "Controller". Now a days this is much easier to do than back 30 years ago. so the R/R can be implemented at much higher efficiency because the Controller switches the FET on and off as required and the FET's never drop much voltage when they conduct so the system produces at least 50% less heat.

The new FET based regulator could have been implemented with 6 FET's but that would have been overkill and potentially created safety concerns so at least 1/2 of the rectifier bridge was left in.

This type of FET technology is not that much different to motor controllers on modern synchronous DC motors. The FET technologies allow controller efficiencies to get close to 95% whereas with the older bipolar technology efficiencies might be closer to 80%. This new FET R/R will probably find much wider usage as time goes on.

Why does the FET technology not benefit from a 6th sense wire? This new FET controller can probably be mounted directly across the battery as the thermal consideration as less severe. As such the sense wire doesn't really provide any benefit. Basically the wire lengths between the R/R to the battery should be as short as possible. That means avoiding running the R/R positive through long harness runs and through many fuse box crimps if possible.

The install note suggested a single run from R/R through an inline fuse to the battery on the plus side; a similar direct connection for the negative side.

Hope this is clearer.

Pos

 

[bwringer]

Man, all this electrical talk is WAY over my head. I'll need to go get my Dad to translate.


Quick question: how are we supposed to find or test the capacity of a particular unit?

 

[four_shot]

Wow...my heads spinning.....Glad you guys are being proactive. AFIK my R/R is functioning well (definately need a new battery), but it is nice to know my options when it finally lets go.

Any threads on gutting the factory R/R and swapping better internals in? I want to keep my bike as close to "resto" as possible.

If I even have a one peice R/R (79 gs850gn)

 

[Matchless]

Any threads on gutting the factory R/R and swapping better internals in? I want to keep my bike as close to "resto" as possible.

If I even have a one peice R/R (79 gs850gn)

I have looked at this, but the space is just too small for new components that are available over the counter. The potting used to encase the components also make it very hard to get at them and in most cases impossible. You basically need to fit a 3 phase 200V 35 Amp bridge rectifier and 3 SCR's inside this with a a few other small components and be able to bring 5 wires out.
Keep well.

 

[Matchless]

Jim,
Thanks for that peep into the use of FET's I am sure that the info will be of good use to those of us that like to know why and how its made!
Much appreciated.

 

[posplayr]

I found a FH012 Spec Sheet

I found a FH012 Spec Sheet

Since someone seems to have put their mind to
doing a better design with the Shindengen FH012AA , I'm hoping they also improved on the regulation as well.

a.) There should be some improvement in the low RPM voltage in that the output voltage should be a little higher because one of the bridge diode drops has been replaced with the FET drop (the lower end of the rectifier bridge). From the spec sheet below we see that the Vf for the diode is 0.77 V max and the FET drop Vron is only 0.44V max. So there might be as much as a 0.3V improvement at idle (instead of the GS idling with 12.8 V add 0.3 and you have 13.1V )

b.) The regulation is probably designed to have a tighter control and not exhibit as much increase in output voltage for increase in RPM. The spec calls for 14.5 +/-0.3 output voltage under regulation. Any variation is likely due to temperature sensitivity of the internal voltage reference and not loose regulation as a function of RPM.


http://www.shindengen.com/resources/Product/FH012AA.pdf


All in all I think this is worth giving and try and will pull alot of the slop out of the GS charging.

Notice also that the installation diagram says to mount the R/R directly across the battery with the load further away and a maximum of 1.5 meters of total harness length between the + and - on the R/R. For a remotely located R/R that is 0.75 m max or about 30 inches away.


I just added up the combined max current consumption using the manual for a GS1100EZ and I get 195 watts at lets assume 14V which is just under 14 amps. Looking at the Power derating curve, the FH012 should handle that nicely even with no air flow all the way to 80 deg C (176 degF)

Pos

 

[Matchless]

Man, all this electrical talk is WAY over my head. I'll need to go get my Dad to translate.


Quick question: how are we supposed to find or test the capacity of a particular unit?

Brian,
I was hoping someone has some technical information such as a manual for a bike that mentions a specific model number of a regulator and gives the current rating. Those I have entered are a few that I could find.

The physical size of the unit is not a reliable indicator as the latest ones have a very small form factor while retaining a high current handling capability.

I personally think that some people may have had repeated regulator failures due to unknowingly using a low capacity regulator as a replacement and as it then heats up more than the larger unit, its lifespan is drastically shortened.

 

[Matchless]

Kawasaki ZX9

Kawasaki ZX9

Here is Kawasaki's method of using the 6 wire regulator. This also gives you the wire colours in case you want to use one.

 

[Matchless]

Does anyone think it is worthwhile keeping this list up to date? I will gladly keep doing it if it is usefull to some.
I am asking due to little response and its slowly slipping into obscurity, maybe its done its job and can be put on pension now?