Rusted tank

[lapls]

Hi,
I just subscribed to this list since I bought a Suzuki GS650GL last week . It is very clean externally but has rust in the gas tank, carbs had leaked in the past and petcock seem to be seized. I was able to turn over the engine so I know it's not seized.
I will install new tires next week-end, change all fluids , rebuild carbs/petcock but am hesitant to "Kreem" the tank, I would rather remove the rust by scraping/rinsing ( or by electrolysis, never tried ) , but don't really like the idea of lining a fuel tank with something that may peel over time.
My questions are:
- Anybody ever tried just to remove the rust without applying the protective treatment ? Of course I would put an additional filter in line..
- What is the best float level for the carbs? I've read 24, 24.5mm but don't have the specs book yet ( will try to order a Clymer soon.. Anyone has a Clymer for sale? )
- While looking for carbs rebuild kits on the web I know for a fact that some are different than others . Anyone knows which carbs are mounted on the '83 650GL? I think these are the model with a rubber plug for the secondary passage but I won't know before I dismount them and I would like to order the kits asap ( the bike is 20 miles away ). I "think" these are Mikuni bs34 but would like a confirmation ( Same I have on my Yam XS650 )

Which oil should I put in the GS engine? I used to put Mobil-1 20w-50 ( motorcycle variety) , is 10w40 better suited for a inline 4? and what about driveshaft oil? GL4? GL5?

Lot of questions but as I said I don't have a manual yet

BTW, my bike is a canadian model with 35,000km on it..
Thank you
Sylvain

 

[mdole]

[FONT=&quot]Rustol is a good choice.

If you would rather go old school Yamaha shops sell a 2 part cleaner and treatment for cleaning tanks. The cleaner is probably phosphoric acid. The treatment is a neutralizer with a passivating agent.

Good luck.[/FONT]

 

[DaveDanger]

If I had a tank that I was certain the rust could be removed from nearly 100% and had no pinholes... I wouldn't hesitate to simply de-rust it with a phosphoric acidf treatment or electrolysis, and keep it full of clean gasoline from then on. The Kreem? or POR-15? sealers are primarily intended for flaky rust that can't seem to be removed, or pinhole sealing. These tanks come from the factory as simply clean sheet metal with no coating. If it stays full so no condensation can form.... they do fine.

 

[lapls]

rusted tank..Thank!

rusted tank..Thank!

Thanks for the suggestions, I will probably try to clean it first and then take a good look, maybe the phosphoric stuff, although I really don't like the service the Yam dealer ig providing here...
In any case I will put some two-stroke oil in the tank when winterizing, maybe will go with the "bare metal" route ;-)

Once I start it I will know how much money I need to pour into it

Sylvain
XS650Gl
Yam Xs650SG

 

[mkaczmarek]

Por-15

Por-15

Welcome to the GSR. I'm from Mississauga (near Toronto) myself and joined this forum just a few months ago when I myself picked up a '79 GS1000E. This forum has helped my tremendously getting my bike back to life after it sat in a garage untouched for about 4 years, so I'm sure you'll find everything you need on this forum to get your bike up and running sooner than you might think.

As for your rusted tank, I had the exact same problem with mine and I got a product POR-15 Motorcycle Fuel Tank Repair Kit. Go to

http://www.canada-por15.com/merchant...r y_Code=Kits

I used this product and the fuel tank turned out better than new (I'm dead serious) the interior of the tank now has a thick durable coating of silvery paint which should outlast the bike, then again, with the longevity of the GS's its gonna be a long time before either see's the junk yard.

I know that there are a few other products out there on the market, and the local suzuki dealer carried a different product called KREEM, while others who also used both Kreem & POR-15 on seperate occasions say is KREEM is inferior, but I guess you would have to make your own mind up which to try. All I can say is I highly recommend POR-15 and if I even have to do a tank job again I will definitely use POR-15.

I had to order the kit by telephone from Montreal (oddly enough where you're from )and with shipping it got to my house within a day or two. Price wise the difference between POR-15 (delivered by mail) and KREEM which you have to drive to a dealer that carries it was about $8CDN I think. But much less hassle.

Anyways, Good luck whichever way you end up going with the tank fix...

==================================================
1979 GS1000E

"NEVER MESS WITH A GS"
"The less you know, the more you believe."
"We thought that we had the answers, it was the questions we had wrong."

 

[tconroy]

Hi,
I just subscribed to this list since I bought a Suzuki GS650GL last week . It is very clean externally but has rust in the gas tank, carbs had leaked in the past and petcock seem to be seized. I was able to turn over the engine so I know it's not seized.
I will install new tires next week-end, change all fluids , rebuild carbs/petcock but am hesitant to "Kreem" the tank, I would rather remove the rust by scraping/rinsing ( or by electrolysis, never tried ) , but don't really like the idea of lining a fuel tank with something that may peel over time.
My questions are:
- Anybody ever tried just to remove the rust without applying the protective treatment ? Of course I would put an additional filter in line..
- What is the best float level for the carbs? I've read 24, 24.5mm but don't have the specs book yet ( will try to order a Clymer soon.. Anyone has a Clymer for sale? )
- While looking for carbs rebuild kits on the web I know for a fact that some are different than others . Anyone knows which carbs are mounted on the '83 650GL? I think these are the model with a rubber plug for the secondary passage but I won't know before I dismount them and I would like to order the kits asap ( the bike is 20 miles away ). I "think" these are Mikuni bs34 but would like a confirmation ( Same I have on my Yam XS650 )

Which oil should I put in the GS engine? I used to put Mobil-1 20w-50 ( motorcycle variety) , is 10w40 better suited for a inline 4? and what about driveshaft oil? GL4? GL5?

Lot of questions but as I said I don't have a manual yet

BTW, my bike is a canadian model with 35,000km on it..
Thank you
Sylvain

Ok, first you have bs32ss carbs and I would get new o-rings from www.cycleorings.com. i use 10w40 in motorcycle oil in mine NOT car oil.Get a clymers manual from anywhere on the web.I got mine at www.themotorbookstore.com.In the shaft drive use 90w.hypoid gear oil.When you change your oil and filter be sure to pull the plug under your shifter too.The gears get lubed by the engine crankcase oil. The float level should be 21.4 to 23.4mm. without the gasket installed. With the gasket reduce the measurement 1mm.Check all your lines and vacumn lines for leaks.Also check your intake boots and o-ring in the intake for air leaks as well.Be sure to have a good air filter with the cove on when testing your bike.They cont run good without the air filter cover on.I would put mystery oil in the cyclinders before you start it again along with new spark plugs.That should keep you busy for a while! LOL!!!I also have an 83 gs 650l.Keep at it and you have a nice running bike in no time. You might try spraying the petcock with pb blaster or wd 40 and let it soak for a whil. It might just have varnish build up and crud on it,That wll save you some money.Welcome to the GS sight where you will always find someone willing to help you through your problems.Good luck with your bike!!! Oh almost forgot.i would go with the 2 step rust removal method if it is bad. I have cleaned it out with carb cleaner and a long brush. Just dont let the carb cleaner get on the paint.

 

[lord1234]

I would go to the 3 step removal...Kreem is a 3 step removal...phosphoric acid, followed by a base solution to remove the acidic properties, followed by a tank sealant to seal the tank. I have done this to bikes in the past and it works great!

 

[Nerobro]

I've heard some horror stories about kreem. Specifically it debonding from the tank sides. I'm all for de-rusting and passivating the interior of the tank, but I'm not one to encourage tank coatings.

 

[argonsagas]

I am not at all fond of having hazardous materials and toxic fumes in my house or garage, so I took my previously-damaged tank to Gas-tank Renu in Toronto after I repaired it and did the body work on it. $90 for a complete cleaning, coating, and three year written guarantee.

Some radiator shops will also do the work

If you go this route ask them about the paint BEFORE you give them the tank.

 

[DaveDanger]

The tank that the P.O. provided with my bike as a replacement (the original had a very unsightly crease in the side) had a previous application of some type of sealer that had been badly applied. It appeared that no attempt had been made to remove the rust first, so obviously the sealant coating had nothing to adhere to. It had let go in huge sheets inside. POR-15 also sells as an addition to their kit, a stripper that will dissolve and help remove any previous sealers that didn't seal. I used it first. Did a great job. I suspect that any of these sealers work well if the proper procedures are followed.

 

[lord1234]

What I have used as well on moped tanks is Behr Concrete Etcher(1:4 mixture of etcher:water)...its phosphoric acid basically KreemA, then you take a 1:4 mixture of baking soda:water and neutralize...no coating...but it definitely CLEANS the tank...

 

[lapls]

Thanks to all for the info, I am going to work on my bike tomorrow and decide from what I see . Also have to install the new D404 tires I bought, that will be a good exercize ( much stiffer than the Cheng Shing I've installed on my other bike ).
The POR-15 seem to have many characteristics of epoxy, which I know well, looks like their motorcycle treatment kit is 48.00 Can $ , might be worth it.

I can't wait to hear the sound of that motor, so my priority is to take care of the whole fuel system first.... And for a bike I paid 350.00, if it runs, it's a good deal

Time to put some grease under my nails again...

Sylvain

 

[tconroy]

Sounds like your ready to go man!have at it and keep us posted of the progress or any help ya might need.

 

[mhardig]

Cleaning gas tanks

Cleaning gas tanks

I had a tractor with a rusty gas tank, which I repaired by filling it half full of limestone tailings (pea sized sharp pieces of limestone) and clamping it in a paint shaker for four hours. Loud. Big mess. Inside of the tank was spanking clean, though. Don't know how you'd clamp a motorcycle tank to a paint shaker. Might be a bad idea- but hell, try it on a bad tank first, what do you have to lose?

 

[tconroy]

I had a tractor with a rusty gas tank, which I repaired by filling it half full of limestone tailings (pea sized sharp pieces of limestone) and clamping it in a paint shaker for four hours. Loud. Big mess. Inside of the tank was spanking clean, though. Don't know how you'd clamp a motorcycle tank to a paint shaker. Might be a bad idea- but hell, try it on a bad tank first, what do you have to lose?

Just find somebody with a harley and strap it on their back and have them ride around for a couple of hours,that'll do it!!!LOL

 

[lapls]

Thanks, the peoples site are definitely full of resources

Once I get my carbs kit and petcock rebuilt I will do a basic clean of the tank and see the extent of damage made by rust, maybe I can get away with a strong clean, otherwise I will probably go the POR-15 route ( and add an online filter to protect these newly rebuilt carbs .. )

Just fitting new tires took more time than planned ( these Dunlops are way more rigid than Cheng shin, fortunately I have 3 tire levers.. )
I still target to put it on the road in 2-3 weeks .

Thanks,

Sylvain
GS650GL

 

[DaveDanger]

I have a 17 year old son who's always look'n to show off his arms... so I asked him to come help me with my tank. Plugged and capped the openings after dropping in a 3' length of small gauge chain. Handed my son the tank and said... "Shake this in every possible direction for a while". Did an excellent job of breaking loose the majority of the loose flaky stuff inside my tank. I then went the POR-15 route including the extra stripper step for the previously unstuck sealant. I really LIKE the finished product. A heavy, coating of what looks like aluminized epoxy sealant. The first tank I did... I used a double handful of plain loose hardware. Did a great job of cleaning, but it took me literally hours to remove it all from the inside of the tank. About half of what I put in there was stainless, so a magnet just ignored it. A length of chain is the cat's meow