SH-775 wiring and battery drain

[Guest]

Ok, I've search around and for the life of me I can't get a black and white answer. I've helped install a SH775 onto a 79' 750. All 3 yellow wires to the stator, the inner wire on the other side I wired to the same red (+) feed in the harness that the stock R/R was using and the outer connector on that same side I wired directly to the batter, there is no sense wire on this. Can someone confirm this is correct please? or is the power from the SH775 supposed to be direct to the (+) on the battery as well? The problem that is happening is it shows on the volt meter that the battery is not charging. I just want to make sure that has nothing to do with my wiring on his SH775.

 

[posplayr]

Ok, I've search around and for the life of me I can't get a black and white answer. I've helped install a SH775 onto a 79' 750. All 3 yellow wires to the stator, the inner wire on the other side I wired to the same red (+) feed in the harness that the stock R/R was using and the outer connector on that same side I wired directly to the batter, there is no sense wire on this. Can someone confirm this is correct please? or is the power from the SH775 supposed to be direct to the (+) on the battery as well? The problem that is happening is it shows on the volt meter that the battery is not charging. I just want to make sure that has nothing to do with my wiring on his SH775.

There are various links in my signature including GS Charging health

If you see two red wires, just assume they are the same wire, same goes for ground. Multiple blacks can be treated as a single combined wire for yoiur 5 wire SH-775. Ignore the Brown sense wire; The SH-775 doesn't have one.

This is a picture of the mounted R/R

If you have a 6 wire the same applies, you are just going to have to find a low impedance switched power source. You can do a search, but a coil mod relay provides about the best option. Otherwise hook it right to the battery and make sure to not let the GS set for long periods of days
Here is a simplified diagram showing the connections for a 6 wire R/R. Just omit the Brown wire for a 5 wire R/R. The R/R has doubled up wires for both (+) and (-) so it is actually an 8 wire as shown.

If you are trying to diagnose the system, it is best to get the wiring correct first. What you describe seems OK except for the grounds. Check those against the drawing. Also once you think it is correct, run the Quick Test and report the results, so I can diagnose the remaining issues.

 

[Guest]

I know, I've read through 'some' of the links, it was the first thing I did but it all got a bit 'hazzy' in my old brain. I have read of some people wiring directly to the battery (+) but as far as I can tell there's no problem with connecting the positive to the wiring harness in the original red connector for the R/R....right?

 

[posplayr]

I know, I've read through 'some' of the links, it was the first thing I did but it all got a bit 'hazzy' in my old brain. I have read of some people wiring directly to the battery (+) but as far as I can tell there's no problem with connecting the positive to the wiring harness in the original red connector for the R/R....right?

Do you understand the schematic above?

It says to wire the Red (+) R/R to the original location in the harness(NOT TO THE BATTERY). So the answer is quite obviously "Yes", here is a link also at that link to another link that explains why. You can go there to see if anybody disputed the analysis.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1913839&postcount=28

 

[robertbarr]

I know, I've read through 'some' of the links, it was the first thing I did but it all got a bit 'hazzy' in my old brain. I have read of some people wiring directly to the battery (+) but as far as I can tell there's no problem with connecting the positive to the wiring harness in the original red connector for the R/R....right?

If there's a dead fuse upstream, that would be an obvious cause. Why not go directly to the battery via fuseholder? It bypasses anything old and shady. I'm sure you have a reason for wiring into the harness, but I'm not sure what that reason might be.

Maybe this diagram will help:

 

[Nessism]

I helped a member install a R/R on his '78 750 yesterday, with similar results. Those bikes originally had a separate rectifier and regulator, and the one that's on the bottom of the battery box (not sure which) was just left for dead, and another tacked on next to the battery under the seat. Ditched all the old crap, wired stator directly into the new R/R, and it's only charging at 13.5V with the positive going straight to the battery. Checked the no load AC voltage at the stator and it was reading 70V, but it climbed very slowly to get there. Hooked up the R/R power output to the red wire in the harness, just aft of the battery, and the charging was worse so I assume there is some resistance in the path back to the battery. At any rate, sounds like you hooked it up properly...at least I hope you did because I did similar. Told the guy he needs a new stator. No load voltage at the stator doesn't mean the thing will make current (I think). At least that what I'm assuming at this point because the charging is poor and the R/R was just recently tested so I know it's good.

Not sure this helps azr, but comrades in arms?

 

[Guest]

thanks Jim, I really 'shouldn't' have to ask this question as I've installed a few honda R/R and one other SH775 and read through your posts before (not all of them, you know far more than I ever will about electronics) I'm just needing a bit or reassurance that I'm not missing something as electrics are no my strong suite. Thanks for the input Dale, so there is nothing wrong with wiring directly to the battery, great. I'm just going to do that as this is not my bike and I'm not wanting to spend days trying to figure out for him where his problem is. I'll put a 20A inline fuse in and put it directly to the + battery then. The only reason I originally wired into the harness was because I thought that was the best way from what I read online and from what was done with the Honda R/R's.

 

[Nessism]

Guy over at KZrider was cautioning against splitting the power out of the R/R, feeding the harness direct and the battery via a fuse (first photo below). Said if the R/R fails, unregulated power will feed the harness. The second method is the preferred method, since the battery will filter the power pulses if the R/R fails and the voltage out of the R/R spikes. At any rate, some food for thought.

Direct link to the discussion being referenced...http://kzrider.com/forum/4-electrical/593411-wire-in-mosfet-reg-and-simplify-wiring-w-diagram

 

[posplayr]

If there's a dead fuse upstream, that would be an obvious cause. Why not go directly to the battery via fuseholder? It bypasses anything old and shady. I'm sure you have a reason for wiring into the harness, but I'm not sure what that reason might be.

Maybe this diagram will help:

I just posted the link why not.

It says to wire the Red (+) R/R to the original location in the harness(NOT TO THE BATTERY). So the answer is quite obviously "Yes", here is a link also at that link to another link that explains why. You can go there to see if anybody disputed the analysis.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1913839&postcount=28

 

[posplayr]

Guy over at KZrider was cautioning against splitting the power out of the R/R, feeding the harness direct and the battery via a fuse (first photo below). Said if the R/R fails, unregulated power will feed the harness. The second method is the preferred method, since the battery will filter the power pulses if the R/R fails and the voltage out of the R/R spikes. At any rate, some food for thought.

Direct link to the discussion being referenced...[/URL]

The internet is FULL OF IT with information. The key is to understand what is the RIGHT information.

If you wire your bike as he recommends, and you get a short anywhere between the battery and the fuse box you will burn baby burn.


I guess most people would prefer a melded mound of electrical insulation gue than having changing out a headlamp bulb.

 

[Guest]

Appreciated Jim

 

[posplayr]

Appreciated Jim

You can see now why this is so confusing

 

[Guest]

Yes, especially to a novice like me Glad you guys have some patience.

 

[posplayr]

I helped a member install a R/R on his '78 750 yesterday, with similar results. Those bikes originally had a separate rectifier and regulator, and the one that's on the bottom of the battery box (not sure which) was just left for dead, and another tacked on next to the battery under the seat. Ditched all the old crap, wired stator directly into the new R/R, and it's only charging at 13.5V with the positive going straight to the battery. Checked the no load AC voltage at the stator and it was reading 70V, but it climbed very slowly to get there. Hooked up the R/R power output to the red wire in the harness, just aft of the battery, and the charging was worse so I assume there is some resistance in the path back to the battery. At any rate, sounds like you hooked it up properly...at least I hope you did because I did similar. Told the guy he needs a new stator. No load voltage at the stator doesn't mean the thing will make current (I think). At least that what I'm assuming at this point because the charging is poor and the R/R was just recently tested so I know it's good.

Not sure this helps azr, but comrades in arms?

Some I know was doing similar yesterday as well. During Q&A, he said teh stator looked good, no burns. As a result of doing a Quick Test and Modified Phase B tests, it was concluded despite the reported good looks of the stator it was the most likely suspect.

Turns out on "closer" inspection of the stator it was burned and not as good as the first casual look would have indicated.

Lessons learned, take a GOOD physical look at the stator if you can take off the cover and look for indications of heating. You can probably gauge the "remaining useful life" from inspection that better than any stators tests. :|


While going direct to the battery might initially result in better charging, it does fundamentally change the way the bike is wired.

By chasing down that resistance (which is quiet doable ) with a little diligence excellent charging is usually very possible without changing the design and adding further complications as indicated in my analysis.

 

[Guest]

I helped him put in a new Electrosport stator so I know that's not the issue. I didn't help him do the single point ground setup so when I see him next I'll do that on the bike and see if the numbers are any better and post back. He's a busy guy, likely I won't see him for a few weeks. Heck we put in the new parts last fall and it's only now he got in touch..I guess not everyone is as 'passionate' about their bikes as some

 

[tom203]

Nessism said......"No load voltage at the stator doesn't mean the thing will make current (I think). At least that what I'm assuming at this point because the charging is poor "

Yes, the no load AC test only has a tiny current (for multimeter) flowing from stator. When stator is doing really work (i.e. pushing out 150 watts + ), you might find it falls flat.

Those who want to wire direct to battery via inline fuse (instead of harness) need to understand that bikes loads now have to all pass thru the 15 amp main fuse (at all times) in suzuki fusebox. Of course, you can add accessory outlets direct from battery to power igadgets, boomboxes, etc.

 

[Steve]

Something in the first post caught my eye. :-k

All 3 yellow wires to the stator, the inner wire on the other side I wired to the same red (+) feed in the harness that the stock R/R was using and the outer connector on that same side I wired directly to the batter, there is no sense wire on this.

Hopefully you wired it to the NEGATIVE terminal on the battery.

.

 

[storm 64]

I have a question about installing the SH-775 that I don't think has been addressed. What gage wire is recommended coming out of the regulator/rectifier for the ground and positive? Also any spade connectors better than others? (I was going to try to find copper or brass connectors). I was going to solder and heat shrink the connectors. After plugging in my connectors I was going to fill the cavity with RTV silicone. Recommended or overkill? Thanks Norm

 

[koolaid_kid]

I prefer 14 gauge for those wires.

 

[rustybronco]

I have a question about installing the SH-775 that I don't think has been addressed. What gage wire is recommended coming out of the regulator/rectifier for the ground and positive? Also any spade connectors better than others? (I was going to try to find copper or brass connectors). I was going to solder and heat shrink the connectors. After plugging in my connectors I was going to fill the cavity with RTV silicone. Recommended or overkill? Thanks Norm

If you do fill the cavity's, use non-acidic RTV.