Shim now or shim later

[cadmandu]

If you have determined what size shims you need then what? Where do you get them and what do you do with your bike while you are waiting for them. Do you guys order a set of shims first then check clearance?

 

[Dave8338]

To measure is to know. Pop the valve cover, measure away, replace said valve cover (after all is perfectly clean with a new gasket, dry) and ride. Wait until the shims come in, remeasure and install where needed. Keep old shims in a freezer bag of 80w gear oil (labled for the bike, of course) and put things all back together. Resync carbs. Ride.

 

[lurch12_2000]

If you have determined what size shims you need then what? Where do you get them and what do you do with your bike while you are waiting for them. Do you guys order a set of shims first then check clearance?

I allow a few days to a week of down time and pull the valve cover off first to check the clearances. You can then play shim shuffle and probably move a few around to get some right. Then you order them from Z1, or check your local dealer, or post here with sizes needed and what you have for trade to see if you can swap some. If this is your first valve adjustment on a GS then you probably don't have at least one spare to play the shim shuffle, so get your hands on one extra shim. Do NOT rotate the cam without a shim as this may cause scoring of the cam lobe and present a bigger problem.
It's expensive to order a whole set of various size shims(whatever that is?) and in my experience, I've only needed 2 - 4 new sized shims on different 650G, 850G, and 1100G 8 valve bikes that I've done. If you have the 16 valve engine then this is a moot point, as they have adjuster screws and locknuts!

EDIT: as Dave8338 noted you can do it that way, but usually you will need a new gasket, as the old one will probably come apart in pieces and you'll spend more time cleaning that up...and if you don't apply a little grease to both surfaces of the gasket, and are not carfeful upon removing the cover the second time with a new gasket, you may bugger up your new $20-25 valve cover gasket doing it twice. They are thin in parts and when you slide the cover out, make sure the gasket is either stuck to the head or to the valve cover as you slide it out. There really isn't a lot of room to lift it up and slide it out without hanging up on the cam chain area...and normally you'll have to remove the breather cover first (which also may require a new gasket)!

 

[cadmandu]

Thanks for the feedback Larry and Mike

Thanks for the feedback Larry and Mike

I have a 82 GS650GL are their any particular sizes that I would need. I remember reading on one of these threads that you guys use 2.6o and 2.65 mm shims very often.
Thanks

I mean lurch and Dave it defaulted to Larry and Mike and I fell for it. Sorry

 

[lurch12_2000]

I have a 82 GS650GL are their any particular sizes that I would need. I remember reading on one of these threads that you guys use 2.6o and 2.65 mm shims very often.
Thanks

I mean lurch and Dave it defaulted to Larry and Mike and I fell for it. Sorry

I wouldn't guess at what you'll need, but if you got a spare shim or 2, then I would get a 2.50 and a 2.55 shim, and probably get "lucky". If you're not lucky, and these are slightly small, then during your next adjustment 4-6k miles from now, you'll probably need them.

 

[Steve]

2.60 and 2.65 might be the most-used shims, but I would not order them just to be ready.

With your luck your bike might need 2.75 or 2.50, so it would be wasted money. Better to do it as Dave suggested, measure, order, change.

There are a couple of options for obtaining shims, as Lurch mentioned. There is a "shim swap club" on the board, I have no details on how that works (or how well it works). They are available at most dealers, but some dealers don't maintain a stock and will have to order them. Some dealers are nice enough to let you exchange with their used shims, maybe free, maybe for a nominal charge, but new shims from a dealer are usually $10-12. Since I have several GSs that I work on, either in my garage or not far away, I have decided to maintain my own supply. I have purchased a few from Z1, I have purchased a few from eBay, I have gotten some with a replacement head, and I have received a few donations. If you only have one bike to maintain (so far), you might not want or need such a supply, but definitely don't order any shims before you see what you need.

May I also suggest that you look at the last line in my sig?

.

 

[Wallowgreen]

I'd plan on the wait for them to arrive from Z1. Local dealer told me they had a good stock ready and waiting right until I turned up at their counter. First they pulled out 29.0mm shims so I rejected those. Then all of a sudden they were difficult to find, finally the chap admitted their systems said the last one they actually sold was 19 years ago! Having data that old in their new computerised systems is questionable anyway, but that's what he said.

Beyond that the prices ranged from $6.50 to close to $20 per shim. Z1 is $5.28 across the board. I needed 7, for that money, I can wait!

 

[lurch12_2000]

.... I needed 7, for that money, I can wait!

My local dealer has a box of these shims, not always the sizes I need, but great to deal with and swap with. Of course I buy other old GS stuff from them regurlarly and have gotten to know them.
Are you sure you need to do 7 of the 8 valve with new shims? Maybe you can do the calculations again or use Steve's spreadsheet and whittle that down. As stated earlier, I've never needed to get more than 4 "new" shims on 3 different bikes, even with some dropping 2 sizes!....$6 per shim plus shipping x ? shims = $$$$:-k

 

[Wallowgreen]

My local dealer has a box of these shims, not always the sizes I need, but great to deal with and swap with. Of course I buy other old GS stuff from them regurlarly and have gotten to know them.
Are you sure you need to do 7 of the 8 valve with new shims? Maybe you can do the calculations again or use Steve's spreadsheet and whittle that down. As stated earlier, I've never needed to get more than 4 "new" shims on 3 different bikes, even with some dropping 2 sizes!....$6 per shim plus shipping x ? shims = $$$$:-k

Info posted in another thread but the dreaded PO fitted 29.0mm diameter shims in place of 29.5mm so the thickness was pretty inconsequential. Would have only needed 2 (if I remember right) based on clearance if not for that.

 

[bwringer]

There's just GOT to be a grubby old-school independent cycle shoppe somewhere around Pittsburgh that will stock these shims.

Maybe even a grubby, old-school GS rider who has accumulated a decent collection of shims.

Suzuki dealers are worse than useless, shim-wise. Even though there's a current model (GS500) that uses these shims, they never have them around.

"We kin order 'em!" Well, so can I, and for a lot less money.

 

[lurch12_2000]

There's just GOT to be a grubby old-school independent cycle shoppe somewhere around Pittsburgh that will stock these shims.

Maybe even a grubby, old-school GS rider who has accumulated a decent collection of shims.

Suzuki dealers are worse than useless, shim-wise. Even though there's a current model (GS500) that uses these shims, they never have them around.

"We kin order 'em!" Well, so can I, and for a lot less money.

Now, now, there are beacons of light in the dealer world for these old GSes!...as I said before, I'm fortunate to deal with a dealer that is friendly, helpful, and more often than not, have what I need at equal to or less than on-line + shipping folks....have you considered moving to NH?
What's more important, family or GS parts?
...and they even ordered after market replacement clutch springs for my Venture at much less than on-line , e-bay or the Venture forum!
And NO I don't work for them.

...oh yeah, GS bikes fall from the sky like "manna from heaven" around here....just go outside and pick one up off the ground, and give it some love and care! In the winter, I look for big mounds under 3 ft of snow and dig them out to find them when I'm bored!

 

[BassCliff]

If you have determined what size shims you need then what? Where do you get them and what do you do with your bike while you are waiting for them. Do you guys order a set of shims first then check clearance?

Hi Mr. cadmandu,

The first time is a little less convenient (take measurements, order, wait, etc). But if you keep track of your clearances and shim sizes, the next time you can "guesstimate" the shims you'll need and order them ahead of time. On a "stable" engine you may need to change only one or two at a time. At my last valve check I didn't have to change any.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Wallowgreen]

Now, now, there are beacons of light in the dealer world for these old GSes!...

You're lucky then. Round here the dealers have gotten to know me well. At least enough to shoot me that look like I'm something the cat dragged in. You can just see them thinking "here he comes again with some obscure question about obsolete junk" :twistedevil:

One of them is kind of ok, tries to help, but always seems to come up short (or expensive). It's as much as I can do to walk through the door of the other (much closer) one to have a tire fitted to a wheel I've already removed.

 

[alke46]

valve shims available

valve shims available

I have two sources for you. The first one is in the Minneapolis area. You can email him at lloydrivers1964@yahoo.com he claims to have thousands of them at $2.50 each. Just be sure to let him know they need to measure 29.5mm.

My other source is Cycle Parts of Lubbock, Tx. (806) 745-4447. I bought from him and had them within the second day of ordering. I think I got them the next day in fact. I called in the a.m. and I believe they arrived the next day with regular postage. Good price and quick shipping.

Good luck

 

[Don-lo]

To measure is to know.

Hmmmm, where have I heard that before?

 

[cadmandu]

Shim thickness from 2.60 to 2.65 = .002

Shim thickness from 2.60 to 2.65 = .002

If the required clearance is .03 to .08 mm which is between .001 and .003 why do the shims come in .002 increments?

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Ummm, because when you get down to the min gap, you put in the next lower size and then you're at/near the max. If you're in spec there's no need to change the shim. If you're out of spec .05mm should get you back in.

When the bikes were made there were "x" sizes, where x is between the printed size and the next size (e.g., 2.70x =~ 2.73mm). Nobody seems to sell those any more.

 

[Steve]

If the required clearance is .03 to .08 mm which is between .001 and .003 why do the shims come in .002 increments?

Because of the simple math of it all.

If your clearance gets below .001, installing a shim that is .002 thinner will get your clearance back up to just under .003.
If your clearance gets above .003, installing a shim that is .002 thicker will get your clearance back down to just over .001.

Now, before everyone else chimes in here, the shims are marked in METRIC values.
They do not come in .002 increments, they come in .05mm increments.
It makes it MUCH easier to also measure in metric values so you don't confuse the issue.
What confusion, you say? Minimum clearance is 0.03mm, maximum clearance is 0.003". Have you every lost or inserted an extra zero? :-k

Nah, me neither.

.

 

[AirCooledFour]

Shim Math

Shim Math

Ummm, because when you get down to the min gap, you put in the next lower size and then you're at/near the max. If you're in spec there's no need to change the shim. If you're out of spec .05mm should get you back in.

When the bikes were made there were "x" sizes, where x is between the printed size and the next size (e.g., 2.70x =~ 2.73mm). Nobody seems to sell those any more.

So if I buy a 29.5 - 29.45, this is a .05 shim? I'm horrible at math!

 

[cadmandu]

.05mm is equal to .0019"

.05mm is equal to .0019"

Is this not correct?