Specific Japanese motorcycle manufacturer's proprietary rim and matching tires.

[Boogywstew]

I am shopping for air cooled twins in the 440 - 650 arena and I read a disturbing story here, or another forum, dealing with one of the 4 main Japanese motorcycle manufacturers. I did not bookmark it and this is exhibit "A" on why that's a good idea.
One of these 4 manufacturers made a, very specific to their brand only, wheel that was matched by a specific tubeless tire bead. I believe more than one tire manufacturer made tires with this specific bead. I am well aware of differences between tube and tubeless tires and ongoing disputes about whether you can safely install a tube tire on a tubeless rim, with or without a tube etc. etc.
Again, this was a case of the tire's specific bead being unsuitable for anything but that ONE Japanese motorcycle manufacturer's proprietary rim.
I remember thinking at the time that I would be well advised to start reading every stamping on every factory rim and reading and understanding everything stamped on a motorcycle tire. I also remember thinking I had no interest in that particular or those particular models so it would probably never cause me problems. Within this last week I have come to learn about "Darksiding", installing car tires on bikes, so maybe I should worry about encountering either these tires, wheels or both!
Does anyone know what I am talking about? I want to say these rims and tires were on a sport bike??? I spent hours last night researching this and if I find an answer I will return and explain it.

 

[Nessism]

If you figure out the specifics, please come back and post. I've never heard of anything like this before. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to either Suzuki or Kawasaki. I've got enough posts on the popular forums for those bikes to say, this has never been posted there before.

 

[Cipher]

Um gee Honda Comstar wheels were the first japanese offering of a tubeless rim and could take tubes so maybe the folklore Darksiding ( AKA im a cheap logic twisting moron) websites are full of crap in whole not in part?

 

[RichDesmond]

In the 35 years I've been on the internet, and god knows how many thousands of hours wasted on motorcycle BBS's/email lists/forums/social media etc... I've never heard anything remotely like this.

If I were you I'd forget about it and quit worrying.

 

[storm 64]

You have this. But it's just a regular Dunlop tire marketed for HD I would think.

 

[slayer61]

Never heard of it, in the car world Ford and Michelin tried it on the Mustang around the 80 era with poor results. All it would do is alienate buyers against the MFG in the future.

Yup 390 mm wheels & tires IIRC.

 

[Boogywstew]

I stumbled across a discussion between multiple Yamaha motorcycle fans over the usage of 16.5 inch rims and mounting 16 inch tires on those rims. Some of the posters thought Yamaha made and equipped their YZF-R6 with 16.5 inch rims and tires. From 2004 until 2016, 16.5 inch rims and tires were used in international racing but Yamaha NEVER sold these bikes with anything but 17 inch rims.
https://www.motorcycle.com/ask-mo-a...-on-17-inch-wheels-for-sportbikes-anyway.html
I was scanning over a forum specializing in Yamaha bikes particularly because I was interested in the Yamaha Seca 400. I read a page or two of this post and 10 or 20 comments. The commenters, themselves, were warning each other about paying careful attention to markings on the rims and tires. At least one, if not more, of the commenters claimed to know someone, or they themselves, had purposely mounted the wrong tire on the wrong rim. There was joking about getting rid of orphan 16.5 tires and rims in this manner.
I was reading this Yamaha forum at least 2 weeks ago and I came away thinking:
1.How incredibly dangerous it was for a motorcycle manufacturer to make 16, 16.5 and 17 inch wheels! Talk about asking for a disaster! (Except Yamaha didn't!)
2. I must take nothing for granted as I need to CAREFULLY examine any wheels and tires on any bike I own. That is definitely true, at least for me.
So, "Yes", I came away believing a Japanese motorcycle manufacturer made a 16.5 inch rim that had to be shod with only a particular matching tire. I was wrong about the bead difference as it's the 1/2 inch difference in tire diameter..
With motorcycle manufacturers still equipping new bikes with 16.5 inch wheels and tire companies still making 16.5 inch tires I think it bears paying attention to what might be on your bike. I wouldn't want to be stuck with 16.5 inch rims for the sheer lack of choices available.
The 2023 KTM-450SMR comes equipped with Alpina 16.5 inch rim in the front and 17 inch on the rear. The tires are Metzeler RaceTec SM K1.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/ktm-450-smr-first-look-2023/
https://www.metzeler.com/en-us/catalog/product/racetec-sm
I also know for sure that Michelin still makes 16.5 inch motorcycle racing tires.
After reading a week ago about 'Darksiding" I can see where some people might think it fine to stick racing tires on their street bikes. I worked in garages, gas stations, car dealerships and tire retailers and I have encountered 16 inch tires on 16.5 inch rims mounted on trucks. Myself, I would never do such a thing. I would never have such an arrangement on any car, truck or bike that I own.

 

[zed1015]

No ROAD BIKE was ever equipped with 16.5 inch rims or tyres so you're not likely to buy the wrong size at your local shop..
They were/are RACE USE ONLY ( GP and Supermoto) and came in either slicks or wets/intermediates so initial appearance of no tread or unusual tread pattern would deter an unlikely mix up..
Using them on the road ( although illegal) would need the matching rim as there's no way you can intentionally or mistakenly fit a 16.5" on a 17" rim and vice versa so those Yamaha boys are talking bollocks..

As for 16" sports bike tyres. ( not scooter tyres )..
Only the early Honda Fireblade and early 600 Hornets used those 16's on the fronts ( 130/70/16 with 17" rears) which were just mimicking the GP bikes of the time for marketing purposes.
This Honda Blade/Hornet front tyre size is still available from some manufacturers but many owners converted to the later 17" front rim for better availability and tyre choice and there's no way you are going to fit a 16" tyre on anything other than a 16" rim either or ANY diameter tyre onto a rim that is not the matching size for that matter..

As for wheel/tyre beads.
There are wheels designed for tubeless tyres and wheels designed for tubes.
You can generally use either tubed or tubeless tyres on tubeless rims but ONLY tubed on tubed rims.
The tubeless rims have a raised bead on the inside of the rim that prevents the tyre bead getting pushed inwards during cornering causing rapid deflation whereas the tubed rims don't.

 

[RichDesmond]

No ROAD BIKE was ever equipped with 16.5 inch rims or tyres so you're not likely to buy the wrong size at your local shop..
They were/are RACE USE ONLY ( GP and Supermoto) and came in either slicks or wets/intermediates so initial appearance of no tread or unusual tread pattern would deter an unlikely mix up..
Using them on the road ( although illegal) would need the matching rim as there's no way you can intentionally or mistakenly fit a 16.5" on a 17" rim and vice versa so those Yamaha boys are talking bollocks..

As for 16" sports bike tyres. ( not scooter tyres )..
Only the early Honda Fireblade and early 600 Hornets used those 16's on the fronts ( 130/70/16 with 17" rears) which were just mimicking the GP bikes of the time for marketing purposes.
This Honda Blade/Hornet front tyre size is still available from some manufacturers but many owners converted to the later 17" front rim for better availability and tyre choice and there's no way you are going to fit a 16" tyre on anything other than a 16" rim either or ANY diameter tyre onto a rim that is not the matching size for that matter..

As for wheel/tyre beads.
There are wheels designed for tubeless tyres and wheels designed for tubes.
You can generally use either tubed or tubeless tyres on tubeless rims but ONLY tubed on tubed rims.
The tubeless rims have a raised bead on the inside of the rim that prevents the tyre bead getting pushed inwards during cornering causing rapid deflation whereas the tubed rims don't.

On the 16" front tires, many Japanese sport or sporty bikes had them from 1983 through the early '90s. Honda Interceptors, the 700 Nighthawk, Suzuki 750/700 E and ES models, various Kawasaki Ninjas and EXs, Yamaha RZ500...etc.

But you are of course completely right on the fact that putting a tire on a rim diameter that it wasn't designed for isn't going to happen.

Not sure why Boogywstew is wrapped around the axle on this, but he has nothing to worry about.

 

[Boogywstew]

About a dozen years ago I was out riding with a good friend through the Chautauqua County, New York back roads and we were returning home after dark. My friend Bob was on his BMW K75 and I was on my Yamaha XS650s. We came around a corner with Bob in the lead and he hit hit a few bricks laying in our lane. I saw him hit the bricks and I swerved around them. He didn't stop and it took me a bit to catch up to him. He didn't want to go back and move the bricks off the road and I agreed. It haunts me to this very day that I didn't go back and do the right thing. That's my motivation.

 

[RichDesmond]

About a dozen years ago I was out riding with a good friend through the Chautauqua County, New York back roads and we were returning home after dark. My friend Bob was on his BMW K75 and I was on my Yamaha XS650s. We came around a corner with Bob in the lead and he hit hit a few bricks laying in our lane. I saw him hit the bricks and I swerved around them. He didn't stop and it took me a bit to catch up to him. He didn't want to go back and move the bricks off the road and I agreed. It haunts me to this very day that I didn't go back and do the right thing. That's my motivation.

Fair enough.
But those bricks were real, this tire issue you've conjured up doesn't exist.

 

[LAB3]

This topic seems like something you stick in your pocket for when you're hanging out with your stoner buddies and trying to impress them with how much you "know" about motorcycles.