Tracking down a knock on a '78 GS400. Need help getting the cylinder off.

[Gorminrider]

So wood's the winner, eh? Maybe I'll head down to the Homeless Despot this week and grab one for my whacking purpose...

Your method isn't working and I'm merely suggesting a different technique, harmless to try.
Buy? don't Buy. At least don't buy a blisterpacked and degenerate iteration of a very simple tool until you know you really want it.
No hammer? find a nice rock. and so on...

Cut a scrap broomstick, or a straight branch of a trees, or a 2x2 or a 1x2 of stout wood to say 12 or 18" , and whack it with a steel hammer. The idea being you can apply more force at a smaller spot without marking the engine or accidentally, say, breaking fins off... Plus you can get target cramped places where that's wanted someday.
Mallet? a chunk of 2x4 or thick branch. More elaborately, a piece of short-grained wood that won't split right away, drilled to put a handle into. Some homemadse will fall apart in your hands after a few uses, some will be your lifelong friend...

 

[Gorminrider]

see the 6 springs? (black arrow)I called this "the clutch boss" for lack of imagination but the parts diagram calls it 'clutch gear. It's just a thought, per your description though.

 

[ItsBork]

View attachment 63467

see the 6 springs? (black arrow)I called this "the clutch boss" for lack of imagination but the parts diagram calls it 'clutch gear. It's just a thought, per your description though.

I just got to these today. I checked my actual clutch springs and they are 1mm out of minimum spec but the manuals don't list any specs for these springs on the back. There are two separate kinds in alternating pattern.
Any place I can find specs for these? None of them seem particularly loose.

 

[Gorminrider]

No though it might be in a shop manual somewhere...twas just a thought. Taking the motor of a running bike entirely apart to find an indefinite noise is beyond my experience. ..... you didnt find any other suspects in there? loose keyways? small bolts flicking around?
Maybe taking the sump plate off is the next. Or double-checking the cam-chain tensioner. Perhaps the chain was slapping. Have a look down the tunnel for sign of that. Have a good look at the camchain blade too. Pieces can come off the plastic ones- they are getting really old these days.

Usually you can troubleshoot worn bearings or rings or valves before you take the cylinders off.

If you're still determined to rip your cylinders off (which I'm not imagining as a discovery method for a knocking or rattling) and really can't find any reason for them not to release, I guess a wood-chisel whacked at the gasket all-round is the final blow. It's better than a screw driver. But it's so easy to mar surfaces and I didn't tell you to do it and I wouldn't until I'd determined it was all sacrificial...

 

[ItsBork]

No though it might be in a shop manual somewhere...twas just a thought. Taking the motor of a running bike entirely apart to find an indefinite noise is beyond my experience. ..... you didnt find any other suspects in there? loose keyways? small bolts flicking around?
Maybe taking the sump plate off is the next. Or double-checking the cam-chain tensioner. Perhaps the chain was slapping. Have a look down the tunnel for sign of that. Have a good look at the camchain blade too. Pieces can come off the plastic ones- they are getting really old these days.

Usually you can troubleshoot worn bearings or rings or valves before you take the cylinders off.

If you're still determined to rip your cylinders off (which I'm not imagining as a discovery method for a knocking or rattling) and really can't find any reason for them not to release, I guess a wood-chisel whacked at the gasket all-round is the final blow. It's better than a screw driver. But it's so easy to mar surfaces and I didn't tell you to do it and I wouldn't until I'd determined it was all sacrificial...

To be honest at this point the only reason I'm still determined to get the cylinder off is it will make it easier to de-carbon the pistons without getting shmutz all in the cylinder/case and before I cracked it open the compression was at about 90 psi. Haven't noticed any issues with the valves or seats, tappet clearances were acceptable. If it wasn't for the low compression I probably would have started with the clutch. But I already have a new set of rings sitting around and I certainly don't mind taking things apart even if it just ends up being for the experience. Sure, it might seem silly to be tearing the thing apart now, but I either find nothing and I learn a ton about my engine in the process and also end up with the peace of mind of knowing nothing is actually broken, or I find something broken and the end result is the same.

But yeah, if it wasn't for the low compression I would probably just be putting the head back on at this point.

 

[Gorminrider]

ah. 90# is low especially if it's just one side. But the valves affect compression too. Bad rings would result in fouled plugs and smoke, bad valves not so unless the seals were pretty bad? ...anyways I" did-over" the valves on my gsx400E, found bent ones and it fixed the "one-side low" problem.

 

[ItsBork]

ah. 90# is low especially if it's just one side. But the valves affect compression too. Bad rings would result in fouled plugs and smoke, bad valves not so unless the seals were pretty bad? ...anyways I" did-over" the valves on my gsx400E, found bent ones and it fixed the "one-side low" problem.

Both sides were low. I was debating borrowing a valve spring compressor and removing them to fully examine them.

 

[Nessism]

Have you popped the cylinder loose yet? We are going on 8 days now. It ain't that hard.

 

[ItsBork]

Have you popped the cylinder loose yet? We are going on 8 days now. It ain't that hard.

No I haven't. To be fair I have only been working on it in passing time.

I really am running out of ideas. I tried jammed a plank under the block where the cam chain tensioner goes and lifting, but no dice.

This definitely shouldn't be this hard which is getting frustrating because it feels like I'm missing something. Yeah the gasket is old but if there's nothing else holding it I shouldn't have seen SOME progress by now, even just a lifted corner or something.

I could have the whole bike put back together in an afternoon if I can just get this damn cylinder off so I can clean the Pistons and change the rings.

 

[Nessism]

How about a crowbar? Use duct tape on the tip so it doesn't gouge the aluminum. Cram it in the gap between the tab that stick out and the block and then lift up.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

I'd be hosing down that gasket crack a few time a day with PB Blaster.

 

[Gorminrider]

I'd be looking at the parts diagram awfully closely.

meanwhile here's an entertaining video..
[h=1]Kawasaki ER5 engine Full Restoration | Kawasaki ER5, KLE, EX500 Engine Restoration in18 minutes[/h]it's a slightly more complicated engine so you should be able to do it in 14.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Y2xq2L5xo

 

[ItsBork]

Update: Success!

Archimedes once said "Give me a lever long enough, and a fulcrum in which to place it, and I will move the world."

Well I don't know about that, but I know a 3 foot pry bar can crack open a 40 year old cylinder!

I did have one concern that may or may not be anything at all. I noticed that if I grab the main output shaft and wiggle it back and forth I get a little bit of a knock/rattle. It's not super bad or anything and I do have to really jiggle the crap out of it to get it to make noise, but since this whole thing started over a noise investigation and this is right about the area it was the loudest I figured I'd ask if it's normal. Video attached.

https://imgur.com/lDbaAog

There's no resistance or grittiness to the shaft movement. It's very smooth and doesn't seem to make a lot of noise when spun in one direction. But if you move it back and forth there is definitely a sound, but this might just be normal.




Not sure if it's the factory gasket, but it's definitely been here a while.

Pistons are clean and new rings are on, cylinder re-installed.

Waiting on a new thrust bearing and clutch springs tomorrow as well as a valve compressor so I can check/clean those. If everything goes well I'll have her all buttoned up tomorrow night and ready to ride this weekend!

 

[Gorminrider]

Hurray! but looks kind of risky. I hope it is worth it in the end. The cam chain guide looks pretty good. One of mine had cracks in it when revealed and is hard to replace....

A bit of play in gear trains is not unusual.

PS I only hear valves in your uploads. Why not make an mp3* of the noise you hear in the location you hear it? Do not make it too short and do not jerk the microphone all around-find the best spot BEFOREHAND and stay there so people have time to listen closely.Someone may recognize it and save you some time.

* an mp3 =a much faster upload/download, being only the audio

 

[ItsBork]

Hurray! but looks kind of risky. I hope it is worth it in the end. The cam chain guide looks pretty good. One of mine had cracks in it when revealed and is hard to replace....

A bit of play in gear trains is not unusual.

PS I only hear valves in your uploads. Why not make an mp3* of the noise you hear in the location you hear it? Do not make it too short and do not jerk the microphone all around-find the best spot BEFOREHAND and stay there so people have time to listen closely.Someone may recognize it and save you some time.

* an mp3 =a much faster upload/download, being only the audio

I use videos so people can see what I'm looking at/manipulating. I know it's easier for me to diagnose things I when I can see them, plus I'm very likely to use a wrong word or describe something poorly being so new to bikes so a video gives people more information. I'll admit I was a bit all over the place on the last one, but my problem isn't play in the shaft. I shouldn't have used the word wiggle. What I mean is when I spin the shaft back and forth like you can see in parts of the video I get a sound that I'm not sure is normal, which wouldn't concern me if it wasn't in the location where the original sound I am investigating was coming from.