Turn Signals Weak Until Throttle is Blipped

[DragonRider]

I am acquiring a 1981 GS650G from a very good friend of mine. It has somewhere north of 30k miles on it, runs fantastic and I am getting it for a song. I will be looking at the bike again tomorrow to ask a few last questions and then...it shall be mine as soon as we have our garage sale to get rid of clutter. Anyhow, even though I won't have the bike for a few weeks, there is one issue that he told me about that I thought I would get info on it ahead of time. He said that sometimes the turn signals get really dim and don't flash well. To solve this, he pulls in the clutch, blips the throttle and the turn signals come back to life. Is this indicative of a bad stator or something else? If it is a bad stator can I pick up a good one for under $100? I see them all over the place for $35 on up but I don't want a part that won't last. I'm pretty good at wrenching on just about anything so changing the stator is not a problem. I just don't want to replace something that isn't needed. I am also wondering if the bike can handle adding a single USB outlet when the charging system is in good working order or if there need for some kind of upgrade done to the charging system.

That's about all for now. I am new to the forum and just trying to get out ahead of a few simple issues so that I can be out riding as soon as possible. I'll be 46 in a couple months and have waited 36ish years to be able to finally have my own bike. I can hardly wait and I feel like a 8 year old boy again being a pillion for the first time...

I will definitely post pics (when I get the bike) and write a little "about me" post at the same time. Until then, any help with the weak turn signals would be most helpful. Thanks everyone.

 

[posplayr]

Do a complete Quick Test and report the results for a diagnosis (see my signature or it is a sticky as well)

 

[DragonRider]

I will make sure to take my multimeter with me when I go look at the bike tomorrow and will post results accordingly. Thanks!

 

[LAB3]

A USB outlet isn't going to add enough load to worry about, no need to sweat an upgrade.

 

[sam000lee]

It does sound like the charging system is not quite up to speed. Of course getting some good data like Posplayr suggested is a good idea once you have the bike but typically the things to look out for/replace are:

1. Bad connections/corrosion around terminals
2. Grounding points - There are a few threads on here on a Single Point Ground set up that a lot of people (myself included) have implemented
3. Replacing the stock shunt type R/R with a series type SH775 (I've done this on all my GS's). You can find these on ebay for a reasonable price. There are a lot of knock offs so just make sure you get a real one that says "SH775" printed on it.
4. Making sure your battery is good

If the stator failed/is failing, it's because the rest of the system is putting an additional load on it. If the other things aren't addressed a replacement would be prone to burning up again.

 

[posplayr]

He should find out that even if everything is working fine, idle voltage is very dependent on RPM. Also battery state and probably overall motor temperature.

+++ On cleaning connections and grounding to get the most out of the charging system.

 

[DragonRider]

So here's where things stand. First of all I want to thank everyone for their feedback and advice. It is great to have people to count on when wading into unfamiliar waters...especially those who can guide you into the deep end safely.

Next, I wasn't able to do the Quick Test today because the bike isn't running yet. My friend texted me that the battery gave up the ghost and the fuel line from the tank to the rail is broken That's the bad news.

The good news is that I'm going to be able to get the bike a little sooner than I thought (probably a couple of weeks from now) and he's going to get a new battery and get the bike running before it finds its new home here. Also, he unexpectedly reduced the price since the last time we talked...and that, for me, is really good news. The bike will be rideable this summer but I will definitely be doing some work on it over the winter. The speedo doesn't work because the drive gear is bad and i'm going to go through the wiring with a fine tooth comb and clean every connection I can get my hands on. I know that touching the wiring on a 37 year old bike is a dangerous rabbit hole to go down but I fear it must be done. Also, it needs a new choke cable, a new clutch lever and just some all around TLC. Some of these issues I'll deal with in the next month or two and some I will work on over the cold months. Next year will be new tires as these are almost to their 5 year limit.

sam000lee How much will a genuine SH775 cost if I can find one? I just did a quick search and haven't found any genuine one's yet. I want to keep the costs down initially and do as little tinkering as possible so I can ride as much as possible. However, I also want to do what is necessary so I don't sabotage myself by neglecting a necessary maintenance or necessary fix.

I will definitely do the quick test as soon as I have the bike and fix/maintenance anything necessary. I will probably take care of the drive gear for the speedo within the first couple of weeks and just use my speedometer app in the meantime. That's it for now...I need to finish end of year reports for my students and then I can be done when I leave the classroom tomorrow. Have a great night everyone...I'll keep you updated on what I find out.

 

[sam000lee]

Here's one for $40 + $20 shipping from canada. I've bought them used before and have no concern about it. The trick is finding one that says "SH775 B" or "SH775 A" stamped on the back.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polaris-rz...557992?hash=item284ef7da68:g:YaMAAOSwp7taZ5Ur

The standard practice for a new to you GS (or any old UJM) is:

- Carb dunk and clean
- Wiring clean up like you mentoined
- Valve adjustments
- Breaks and tires

Keep us posted!

 

[Redman]

......
............. the battery gave up the ghost .....................

That was my leading suspect.
Slow t/signal is a symptom of low voltage. Even a good (stock) charging system doesnt put out much at idle, so when raise RPM and t/signal return to normal, well, that tells you the charging system is working (at least working some), and problem is probabley the battery not accepting/holding the charge.

Afer you get the battery replaced and get it running, things may seem okay, but, You will still want to do the Quick Test. Just to check things out.

Welcome to GSR.

There, see, you have experienced and learned something already. Slow t/signal (if both slow) is symptom of low voltage.
So if you experience that again, and if in that case it is because your charging system has failed, the next thing is going to be slow starting, and then bike will die on the road at some point. So now that you have learned to notice the early symptoms, you can avoid letting the others happen to you.

 

[Redman]

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...t-back-to-CA&p=2478165&highlight=#post2478165

Hey, Toledo is kinda close to Detroit. Maybe you Might know someone up near St Clair Shores that can help out this guy.

 

[bwringer]

Just to be clear, some degree of dimming at idle is perfectly normal.

On my GS, idle when it's warmed up (right about 1,000 rpm) gets me around 12.6 volts (and when the turn signals blink, it dips a little). But by the time I hit 1,100 rpm it's in the 13 volt range, and up to the usual 14.2 (seems to be the setpoint of the Honda reg/rect I'm using) by 1,200 rpm.

 

[DragonRider]

This is exactly why I signed up for the forum. Tons of knowledgeable owners willing to share what they've learned over their time of GS ownership. I'm scheduled to get the bike the week of the 11th so we're right at about two weeks out. It would be awesome if it was just the battery. My friend did clarify the blinker issue when I saw the bike on Wednesday. The blinkers wouldn't just dim but actually stop blinking. He would either manually click the switch back and forth or if he was at a safe place to do so blip the throttle. I don't know if that's indicative of something different or just the low charge of the bad battery. Again I'm hoping it's just the battery going bad but will know that in a couple weeks. I already ordered the choke cable assembly from eBay. It was $11, free shipping and the seller had a 100% feedback after selling over 14,000 items. so if nothing else, I'll be able to start the bike without having to clamp down the clutch lever and manipulate the choke with the caribiner that's attached. This bike will definitely needs some TLC but that's something I love to do so this will be a good first bike for me. My friend has had it for 4-5 years and got it from his brother in law. My friend is also very good about winterization so even though he only rode it a few times last season it is not a neglected bike...just one that needs a new owner who has time to ride. My youngest is seventeen and my oldest moved out of the last year. This means I have much more time to ride than my friend and am hoping to still put 3-4,000 miles on it this season...but I digress as I am starting to ramble. Thanks again everyone and pics will be coming in about 10-12 days. Have a great weekend.

 

[DragonRider]

The bike has finally arrived!! My friend drove it over yesterday with a brand new battery installed. I replaced the choke cable today and it works perfectly. The bike fires right up and did so within 3 seconds after sitting for 18 months at my friends house. Now to the next step. There is NO CHANGE OR INCREASE in voltage at all when the bike is running at any RPM. At least not to the battery. I need to dig into it a little more tomorrow. I'll be printing out the Clymer Manual in the morning and putting it together in a binder with page protectors so I won't ruin it when I look through it while wrenching. Anyway, I definitely don't want to ride it until I figure out why the charging system isn't charging. I didn't have time to check it at the block, only the battery terminals. There is a sketchy wire that I saw leading to the positive terminal from the block but needed to button things up for an evening engagement. I'm hoping it's just a bad connection and that is why it's not charging the battery but there is still the turn signal issue that started this whole thing. I was wondering is someone could tell me how much I should be spending on a stator if I end up needing one. I see them for as cheap as $30ish dollars but that seems a little suspect to me...however, I'm hoping I don't have to spend $150+ either but will if that's what's needed. If anyone jumps back on this thread and can answer that question please do. I will keep everyone posted as to what I find out tomorrow after I've had time to dig a little deeper.

 

[posplayr]

I would say todo the Quick Test (see my signature) first (just to get a baseline) and report the results.

http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers3.php

You will probably need to move to the Stator Pages Phase B with focus on leg to leg and leg to ground VAC tests at 5K RPM. Ignore the ohm meter tests they are worthless and just a distraction.

http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers4.php

 

[DragonRider]

AND THE VERDICT IS..................... Seemingly a bad R/R

Quick Test Results:

Battery at start: 12.4V

Key On/Lights on: 12.00

At Idle: 12.5-12.6 and then after a few moments 13.0-13.1

At 2500 RPM: Dropped to 12.6-12.8

At 5000 RPM: Same as 2500 RPM
(When let idle again the voltage would climb to 13.0-13.1)

Immediately after quick test battery read 12.8 (After about 2-3 minutes at idle)

Stator Test Results:

All three connections are putting out 86.6ish volts (readings are literally within a few tenths of each other)

R/R Test Results:

All tests produced zero readings on my multi-meter.

So, just for verification...the reason I am getting charging at idle is because the R/R isn't trying to dump extra voltage at this point and is in essence "bypassed" during idle. However, when the voltage is raised through higher RPMs then the R/R is supposed to regulate how much voltage gets to the rest of the system and is not doing so Rather it is "dumping" all of the current instead of sending some of it to the charging system and then dumping the excess. Does this sound about right? And if this is correct, then I should order a used SH775BA R/R from ebay and install it...correct?

If this is all headed in the right direction then is the SH775 a plug and play R/R or will I need some sort of conversion kit?

So there you have it. The results of little deeper digging and what I think are some pretty definitive results from the Stator Paper testing files. Let me know if I'm missing anything else and as always...thanks.

 

[posplayr]

AND THE VERDICT IS..................... Seemingly a bad R/R

Quick Test Results:

Battery at start: 12.4V

Key On/Lights on: 12.00

At Idle: 12.5-12.6 and then after a few moments 13.0-13.1

At 2500 RPM: Dropped to 12.6-12.8

At 5000 RPM: Same as 2500 RPM
(When let idle again the voltage would climb to 13.0-13.1)

Immediately after quick test battery read 12.8 (After about 2-3 minutes at idle)

Stator Test Results:

All three connections are putting out 86.6ish volts (readings are literally within a few tenths of each other)

R/R Test Results:

All tests produced zero readings on my multi-meter.

So, just for verification...the reason I am getting charging at idle is because the R/R isn't trying to dump extra voltage at this point and is in essence "bypassed" during idle. However, when the voltage is raised through higher RPMs then the R/R is supposed to regulate how much voltage gets to the rest of the system and is not doing so Rather it is "dumping" all of the current instead of sending some of it to the charging system and then dumping the excess. Does this sound about right? And if this is correct, then I should order a used SH775BA R/R from ebay and install it...correct?

If this is all headed in the right direction then is the SH775 a plug and play R/R or will I need some sort of conversion kit?

So there you have it. The results of little deeper digging and what I think are some pretty definitive results from the Stator Paper testing files. Let me know if I'm missing anything else and as always...thanks.

I would see if your stator is any good. You should do the leg to ground tests at 5K RPM. That is probably the best test that exists for stator testing. The leg to leg tests are good but not conclusive. The leg to ground tests may not be 100% but much better than leg to leg.

Read your theory about the R/R. It is possible but why guess. exclude teh stator before pointing the finger at the R/R. If it is shunt it should go, but replacing it with a bad stator won't help much.

 

[DragonRider]

I will do the leg to ground test tomorrow and post results. If the stator proves good should I then replace the R/R? From what I can see it is original to the bike.

 

[posplayr]

I will do the leg to ground test tomorrow and post results. If the stator proves good should I then replace the R/R? From what I can see it is original to the bike.

You should replace the R/R it in either case(but especially if you have a burned stator), but one change at a time. Check the stator first.

 

[Steve]

Changing to an SH775 R/R is not quite "plug and play", but it's not all that hard.

In your stock wiring, you likely have two stator wires that go to the stock R/R, the third one disappears into the harness, then comes back to the R/R. Disconnect that needless loop, all three stator wires should connect directly to the R/R. When I say "directly", please don't get the idea that connectors are not allowed. They are. Just don't take any detours through other connectors.

When you remove your stock R/R, note where the red output wire connects. When you install the 775, connect the output wire there, too.

The 775 is larger than the stock R/R, so you might have to move something around to get it mounted. Not a problem, just put it where it fits, run enough wire to make the proper connections.

.

 

[DragonRider]

The stator is good according to every test in the stator papers. The R/R is not according to every test in the stator papers. I have inserted two pics of R/R that I removed from my bike. Does this look to be the original? The bike as between 38k-40K on it. I've also included a single pic of the bike...it's not the best one and there will be more bike pics to come in the proper thread but I wanted to get at least one in here. So, it looks like the R/R will be replaced hopefully within the week. I did take the bike out for a few miles today because I just couldn't stand it any longer. I probably have some carb work to do but it was running better this evening during testing at higher RPMs. It had some hiccups trying to get over 4000 RPMs on my ride but after some more fresh fuel and little bit of Arch Oil 6200 seemed to clear up and revved just fine during my last set of testing this evening. Anyways, here are the pics...looking forward to feedback and I'll keep everyone posted from my end.