Valve clearance is way to big

[hoburger]

At 37,000 on the odometer, I decided to check the valves on my 1980 gs850. I figured out the clearances and started to put in new shims. On my 4th exhaust valve, it was originally at a 2.55mm shim, needing a 2.50mm to open it up a little bit. After I put in my new shim, removed the zip tie from holding the valve open, and rotated my cam a few times to ensure proper seating, I immediately knew I had a problem; I could see it. The valve clearance between the cam lobe and the shim was enormous to the point where I could see visible sunlight between the two pieces. The gap itself looked to be maybe a solid millimeter. Has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks,

 

[GSX1000E]

A large chunk of carbon got dislodged from your valve stem and got stuck to the valve seat BECAUSE you used a zip tie instead of the factory tool?

 

[hoburger]

Lesson learned.I'll take a look and see if that's the issue. For the mean time, does anybody else have an idea of what it can be?

 

[Nessism]

Eric already said what the problem is; gunk caught under the valve keeping it from seating. Shouldn't be overly difficult to get it out, although you may need the proper depressor tool to do it.

 

[hoburger]

Okay, so I can add too GSX1000E's list of reason why one should avoid using zipties to adjust valves. I feel incredibly stupid, but one of the zipties I was using snapped while inside of the sparkplug hole. What's the best way to remove that? I don't think it'd easily fall out if I drained the oil.

 

[1980GS1000E]

I would just try to start the engine. It should blow right out.

 

[BadBillyB]

I would highly recommend NOT starting the motor until you fish that piece out. You could easily bend a connecting rod if the piece gets around the edge of the piston. I would rig up a small diameter piece if clear plastic hose to a shop vac and see if you can suck it out. Make sure the valve that is hung open is not trapping the piece of zip tie........Billy

 

[Steve]

I feel incredibly stupid, but one of the zipties I was using snapped while inside of the sparkplug hole. What's the best way to remove that? I don't think it'd easily fall out if I drained the oil.

I have not had the problem that Eric seems to have with dislodging carbon bits around the valves, and I use zip-ties ALL the time. And, I don't just do my bikes. In my previous job, I travelled a lot, and helped many other GSers with their bikes on the weekends. Can't tell you how many different bikes I have used zip-ties on.

That being said, there is a very good reason for doubling over the zip-tie (and securing it) before putting it in the spark plug hole. On the off chance that you manage to cut through one layer, you still have the folded-over part that keeps it from falling in. In my years of doing this, I have found that I can do valve shim inventories (which require a LOT more use of the zip-tie) on at least six bikes before seeing the slightest hint of 'damage' to the zip-tie. I think I cut the first zip-tie after doing about 10 bikes.

Now, I am just trying to figure out just how draining the oil will remove some foreign matter from above the piston. :-k

Nope, not gonna happen. :-\\\

.

 

[GSX1000E]

I have never had any problem adjusting my valve shims using the factory tool that was designed by the engineers that designed the engines.
If some wish to save a few bucks and rely on voodoo, magic potions, snake oil or zip ties rather than buying the readily available tool,
perhaps they should tell those engineers just where they went wrong because a member on GSR knows MUCH more than they did.

Available from our friends at Z1 Enterprises for even less than this Ebay item...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-...rg=20140602152332&rk=8&rkt=10&sd=331395732578

 

[Scout]

I have not had the problem that Eric seems to have with dislodging carbon bits around the valves, and I use zip-ties ALL the time. And, I don't just do my bikes. In my previous job, I travelled a lot, and helped many other GSers with their bikes on the weekends. Can't tell you how many different bikes I have used zip-ties on.

That being said, there is a very good reason for doubling over the zip-tie (and securing it) before putting it in the spark plug hole. On the off chance that you manage to cut through one layer, you still have the folded-over part that keeps it from falling in. In my years of doing this, I have found that I can do valve shim inventories (which require a LOT more use of the zip-tie) on at least six bikes before seeing the slightest hint of 'damage' to the zip-tie. I think I cut the first zip-tie after doing about 10 bikes.

Now, I am just trying to figure out just how draining the oil will remove some foreign matter from above the piston. :-k

Nope, not gonna happen. :-\\\

.

Why would a seemingly smart guy such as yourself recommend this hocus pocus method to GS diy'ers? To save a $20 bill? I went to motorcycle tech school some years ago and the zip tie method was not covered as far as I remember. This site recommends doing it yourself, including in depth processes like carb rebuilding where NO shortcuts can be taken yet recommend zip ties in place of real motorcycle tools? Always gives me a laugh when I read someone uses the zip tie method.

 

[Nessism]

A while back I put a poll up about valve adjustment, and feedback was that something like 1/4 of GSR'ers don't adjust their valves. You would think that people that frequent a motorcycle forum would be more tech savvy, but it is what it is. Using the tiewrap method is simple and doesn't require any special tools, so people that wouldn't normally adjust valves may do so. They still need to get their hands on shims but regardless, I'm fairly confident that the tiewrap method is a positive development in the long term health of GS bikes on the planet. Lets go easy on those tiewrap users. There are far worse things one could do to their bikes.

 

[GSX1000E]

For the experts that KNOW MORE than the Suzuki engineers, why not contact them and help them correct the problems?
I am certain that they would LOVE to hear from you.

American Suzuki Motor Corporation
3251 E. Imperial Hwy
Brea, CA 92821
(714) 996-7040
1-800-934-0934
Fax: (714) 579-1272

How to get through to a person.
Direct to person.

http://elliott.org/contacts/american-suzuki-motor-corporation/

 

[dorkburger]

Having never owned a 2 valve Suzuki, im ignorant on the whole zip tie vs. factory tool method. Is this to fish out the shims?

Regarding the spark plug opening....After losing a nut into the cylinder many years ago, i ALWAYS keep them covered..

 

[JTGS850GL]

Having never owned a 2 valve Suzuki, im ignorant on the whole zip tie vs. factory tool method. Is this to fish out the shims?

Regarding the spark plug opening....After losing a nut into the cylinder many years ago, i ALWAYS keep them covered..

They use the tie wrap between the valve and the valve seat in order to keep the valve open. That allows them to remove the shim and replace it without any other tools. The down side is it can pickup or dislodge some carbon from behind the valve which, as in this case, cause an incorrect reading of valve clearance. Doesn't effect the engine in the long run because the carbon will get blown away once the engine starts. Just makes it more difficult to ensure you're getting a true clearance measurement.

 

[Brendan W]

First I heard of the zip tie was here and out of curiosity tried it. I immediately noticed one or two clearances not coming back to where my calculations predicted they should have. A few revolutions sorted it out. I used a 6mm tie doubled over and noticed it starting to cut up after use.

 

[wymple]

I never noticed any real stress on the zip tie I used. It was a quick and easy way to do the job and I don't really want to spend money on a tool I might use twice in my life, if it didn't get lost in the shuffle. If you do a lot of it, the tool would be nice.

 

[hoburger]

Having never owned a 2 valve Suzuki, im ignorant on the whole zip tie vs. factory tool method. Is this to fish out the shims?

Regarding the spark plug opening....After losing a nut into the cylinder many years ago, i ALWAYS keep them covered..

So how exactly did you get the nut out?

 

[Brendan W]

So how exactly did you get the nut out?

I would imagine a small fleximagnet tool would do the trick

My mother was charged for superglue by her garage after routine service. Turned out they dropped a nut down a plughole and then put glue on the end of a stick to fish it out :hopelessness:

What might they have done to free up stuck rings ?

 

[Steve]

IIf some wish to save a few bucks and rely on voodoo, magic potions, snake oil or zip ties rather than buying the readily available tool, perhaps they should tell those engineers just where they went wrong because a member on GSR knows MUCH more than they did.

And perhaps you should also write to them about their incorrect procedure for pulling an engine out of the frame?
I saw your video, that was definitely not "by the book". :-\\\

Why would a seemingly smart guy such as yourself recommend this hocus pocus method to GS diy'ers? To save a $20 bill?

No, it actually saves a lot MORE than a $20 bill. I have never had that $20 tool work correctly for me, and it snapped off the side of the bucket when the shim was only part-way installed. The shim shattered, it took about half an hour of fishing through the oil puddles with a magnet to get the pieces out, then another major fraction of an hour assembling the pieces to see how much of the shim was still to be found in the engine. I simply choose to not repeat that ordeal.

I went to motorcycle tech school some years ago and the zip tie method was not covered as far as I remember.

Come on, admit it. Do you do EVERYTHING exactly as you were taught in tech school? Surely you have found one or three things that you can do better by doing it a different way.

I used a 6mm tie doubled over and noticed it starting to cut up after use.

I have not measured my zip-tie(s), but I don't think they are any where near 6mm. 4, maybe 5, but not 6. A 6mm tie might be just a bit too wide, maybe even a bit too strong, which might not let it deform a bit when the valve closes on it. That could lead to creases in the tie, which would soon turn into cuts. A smaller, softer tie lasts a lot longer.

... I don't really want to spend money on a tool I might use twice in my life, if it didn't get lost in the shuffle.

How long do you plan on keeping your bike (or another 2-valve GS)? How much do you plan on riding it? The manual suggests checking clearances every 3-4,000 miles. Some of us put at least that much on every year, and keep our bikes for several years, so this is not a "twice in a lifetime" event. To add to that, I have four GSes in my own garage that I maintain, along with helping a few others in the area, so it is sometimes a "twice a MONTH" event.

.

 

[Jedz123]

Steve has always been quite helpful and when it comes to 2V clearance checks I'd ask no one else for help. Steve showed me his zip tie method first hand in person and have always had success. I also use his valve spreed sheet for every 2V GS I've had including my GR.