Valve cover stuck?

[Steve]

Checked all valves and none will permit a 0.038MM feeler gauge under them ...

I see that you are using INCH feelers. In that case, please do not use the metric approximations when reporting measurements.
Do the same thing when entering info on the spreadsheet. If your feelers have both measurements, they are likely INCH, not metric.

... (lobes turned to point forward on intakes, aligned with head surface, exhaust lobes pointed to the rear, aligned with surface of head, as per repair manual image, yes?)

NO. The lobes on the exhaust will point FORWARD and UP. Keep in mind that the exhaust is toward the front of the bike, right over the EXHAUST pipes.

The lobes on the intake will point REARWARD and UP. The intake valves are right over the INTAKE tubes from the carbs.

So with this information, I know I need thinner shims, but how thin should I go with to be within range?

You can start by removing one of your 2.60 shims, put a coin in its place, move the 2.60 to one of the spaces that had a 2.65 or 2.70 to see if that is enough. Knowing that you have 2.60, I would get a "checking" shim in the 2.40 range, because if any of your valves need to drop two shim sizes, they will already be at 2.50. You need to have a shim that is thinner than what you expect.

Forgot to ask before.. what is the X on some of the shim? 2.60X and 2.60 what is the difference? I recall seeing the x while recording the shim thickness.. can't remember if all or only some had it..

Did you not read the tutorial on BassCliff's site or the instructions with the spreadsheet? It is mentioned in #10 on the instruction tab, but does not really explain what it is.

It is a "half-size" shim. If you measure your 2.60x, you will find that it is probably real close to half-way between 2.60 and 2.65, or 2.625. You can not order any of these shims, except from the GSR Shim Club. They can be used to fine-tune your clearances, but the bike will work just fine without them.

As an example (using metric numbers), if your clearance is 0.04mm and your shim is a 2.65, if you change to a 2.60, your clearance will increase to 0.09mm. Technically, that is out of the allowable range (although many of us do it). Actually, the 0.04 is still within tolerance, so there is no need to change it, but it is approaching the minimum, so, by putting in a 2.60x, your clearance will increase to about 0.07mm, right near the top of the spec.

.

 

[Seaking]

I see that you are using INCH feelers. In that case, please do not use the metric approximations when reporting measurements. Do the same thing when entering info on the spreadsheet. If your feelers have both measurements, they are likely INCH, not metric.

I'm using a feeler gauge that has both inch and mm measurements printed on the blade.. 0.038mm / 0.0015 inch for example, the next step up is 0.076mm / 0.003 inch.. Though the book often gives both inch and mm sizes for various components, it only gives the mm size for the valve clearance min 0.03mm and max 0.08mm which is 0.001 inch and 0.003 inch respectively.. Either I have a wonky feeler gauge (or not fine enough increments) or I've totally forgotten how to use a feeler gauge =(

NO. The lobes on the exhaust will point FORWARD and UP. Keep in mind that the exhaust is toward the front of the bike, right over the EXHAUST pipes. The lobes on the intake will point REARWARD and UP. The intake valves are right over the INTAKE tubes from the carbs.

Face palm.. that's me being bass-ackwards when I wrote that.. (red faced) I did have the lobes in the proper position when measuring though..

You can start by removing one of your 2.60 shims, put a coin in its place, move the 2.60 to one of the spaces that had a 2.65 or 2.70 to see if that is enough. Knowing that you have 2.60, I would get a "checking" shim in the 2.40 range, because if any of your valves need to drop two shim sizes, they will already be at 2.50. You need to have a shim that is thinner than what you expect.

I hadn't thought of doing the coin thing, thanks! I see the caution everywhere of not turning the engine without a shim in the bucket but not the 'why' this is a bad thing.. Can you explain what happens in this scenario? I had seen the question asked many time but never the answer to the question..

As an example (using metric numbers), if your clearance is 0.04mm and your shim is a 2.65, if you change to a 2.60, your clearance will increase to 0.09mm. Technically, that is out of the allowable range (although many of us do it). Actually, the 0.04 is still within tolerance, so there is no need to change it, but it is approaching the minimum, so, by putting in a 2.60x, your clearance will increase to about 0.07mm, right near the top of the spec..

Ok, that explains it well.. makes sense to me now. I'll have to pull the shims out again to find which ones were X marked.. At least I'm getting good practice at this part.. sigh

Thank you for the great info, and especially for your patience!

Cheers!

 

[tkent02]

The edge of the empty shim bucket tears up the lobe surface of the cam.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I'm using a feeler gauge that has both inch and mm measurements printed on the blade.. 0.038mm / 0.0015 inch for example, the next step up is 0.076mm / 0.003 inch.. Though the book often gives both inch and mm sizes for various components, it only gives the mm size for the valve clearance min 0.03mm and max 0.08mm which is 0.001 inch and 0.003 inch respectively.. Either I have a wonky feeler gauge (or not fine enough increments) or I've totally forgotten how to use a feeler gauge.

You have an INCH feeler gauge. Most have the metric equivalents printed on them, just as yours does. The best thing to do is to purchase a metric feeler gauge and do the job properly.

 

[Steve]

I'm using a feeler gauge that has both inch and mm measurements printed on the blade.. 0.038mm / 0.0015 inch for example, the next step up is 0.076mm / 0.003 inch.

One way or the other, you need a new set of feeler gauges. Metric would be nice, but even I don't have them.

Your INCH gauge set should have 0.0015, 0.002, 0.0025, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005, etc. Yours appears to be missing the 0.002 and 0.0025.

I hadn't thought of doing the coin thing, thanks! I see the caution everywhere of not turning the engine without a shim in the bucket but not the 'why' this is a bad thing.. Can you explain what happens in this scenario? I had seen the question asked many time but never the answer to the question.

As tkent mentioned, without the shim, the cam lobe goes down into the recess of the bucket, and the sharp edges of the bucket will shred away the edges of the cam lobe. That leaves little metal shavings floating around in a rather critical area.

I'll have to pull the shims out again to find which ones were X marked.

Don't forget to properly note them in the spreadsheet, too. Note that the spreadsheet makes suggestions based on full shim size increments, so if there is an "X" shim in there, and your clearance is tight, it will suggest another "X" shim. Don't sweat that too much, the standard (non-X) size on either side of that recommended shim will probably work, too.

.

 

[JTGS850GL]

You have an INCH feeler gauge. Most have the metric equivalents printed on them, just as yours does. The best thing to do is to purchase a metric feeler gauge and do the job properly.

To clarify, it would be ideal to have a gauge set that has more resolution between the .03mm to .08mm range and goes one step lower then .03mm and a few above the .08mm. The one I use has a .02mm gauge and .01mm increments between .03mm and .08mm and goes up to and above 1.8mm. This would aid in documenting just where you are in the spec range for future valve adjustments. If you take a look on ebay you'll find sets like the one I just described for cheap. I think I paid something in the area of $8 for mine delivered.

The reality is you only need two gauges to do a successful valve adjustment. You'll need two similar to the ones you just referred to. If the .038mm wont go through, then you can consider it too tight. If the .08mm goes through with no resistance, you're too loose. The problem you'll run into is when you're close to the lower spec and the next shim puts your over. You won't know how much over. .09mm may be OK but 1.1mm would be a little too loose. IMHO

 

[Seaking]

Gentlemen, THANK you.. (shaking head) I knew something was amiss and not making clear sense.. Now it does.. dang feeler gauge.. blargh!! My first priority will be to go out and get the proper tool.. and toss this one out..

And now the mystery of why the shim in the bucket is important when turning the engine.. I was reading an article where a gent asked why that was bad and no one gave him the answer.. apparently he had ALL the shims removed from his engine when he did this.. ouch

I recieved the shim spreadsheet via email and will go over the instructions on it carefully to dutyfully record the information..

Again my thanks for your expertise and patience.. it is much appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Seaking]

Shims arrived, valve adjustment complete...

Shims arrived, valve adjustment complete...

The sled dogs delivered the mail today with 4 shims to finialize my valve adjustments. Now everything is done.. measured trice, finally. The spreadsheet really does help. And a BIG thanks to the shim club.

I'll soon be cleaning off the rest of the old gasket off the engine (being careful not to nick the metal) so that I can install the new gasket and valve cover so that I can do a compression test.

I need to find a way to clear the old debris from inside the valve area.. a few little bits found their way there that I can't reach with tweezers etc.. any advice or suggestions?

Carbs and exhaust are off the bike at the moment, is there still a requirement to hold the throttle to wide open position?

Many thanks to those who were patient and helpful along the way. Much appreciated as always.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

Oil-dampened (not soaked) cotton swabs are handy for picking bits of gasket material out of that area-

 

[Seaking]

Oil-dampened (not soaked) cotton swabs are handy for picking bits of gasket material out of that area-

Oddly enough, that's what I started doing tonight to see if I can get most of it.. seems to work.. sticky enough to pick up the little lint like bits..

I plan to do several oil / filter changes while tuning / starting the bike when everything is ready to roll before riding it. Hopefully that will also help

Cheers