Valve stem seals, without removing the cylinder head

[john82q]

Does anyone have a strong opinon, or reason as to why I cant change the stem seals with out removing the head?

Say I use either rope or compressed air to hold the valve up, and make a custom spring compressor.


any thoughts?

 

[john82q]

why would'nt the classic ring type work? its still in the bucket bores with the head off.

see attached pic (not mine) imagine the theaded end cut off and bolted to some sort of fabricated mount on the head. (thinking the cam bearing bolt holes)


Not saying its easy, but it would save heaps, over a tear down,gaskets cost alone would be worth it.

 

[Nessism]

Sorry, but don't understand.

Your first post says the head is still on the engine, but the second says the head is off. Which is it?

It's easy to remove the valves with the head off the engine, not so easy the other way around.

If you figure out how to remove and replace the seals with the head on the engine please take a bunch of photos and share.

 

[bccap]

The oldtimer, who owns my local Suzuki shop was telling me about doing it with compressed air. He's in Hawaii right now, but I'll try to get the details when he gets back.

 

[bccap]

Just found this quote on another forum.

It is a procedure done on motorcycles with overhead valves all the time. Compressed air at even 25 psi will exert a pressure of almost 50 lbs on the valve--plenty to hold the valve in place while you compress the springs and remove the keepers. It is a good way to check the condition of the rings and valve seats as well. Another method is to stuff a small rope into the plug hole and then turn the piston up against the valve to hold it in place. Compressing the springs puts very little down pressure on the valve itself. Have done it many times.
The OP asked for the least expensive approach, and what I told him was about it.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

It's not really keeping the valves up - rope could do that just fine. The problem is compressing the springs. In the pic you've shown bccap, there appears to be just one valve spring and it's fully exposed. Not sure about the 16V models, but my GS has two valve springs and they're down in the bucket bore. There's no way you're getting that valve compressor to work.

Once you have the rope or compressed air in there to hold up the spring, I could envision some scenarios with a PVC pipe and a window cut out which might allow access to the keepers. Perhaps with a good leverage point with a long 2x2 and a helper against the frame spine, or maybe ratchet straps. Your approach would probably have to vary considerably between the cylinders.

 

[bccap]

Sorry about that Mike. I was quoting a poster on another site. He used that picture to show one of many different valve spring compressors available. I really don't know how its done. But from the little surfing I did, it seems that many people with motorcycle overhead cam engines do replace their valve seals without removing the heads.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Oh, no need to apologize - great to have some ideas.

This is something I've actually thought about before. It would be very cool to get it done.

 

[Steve]

..., I could envision some scenarios with a PVC pipe and a window cut out which might allow access to the keepers. ...

You have, of course, looked at BassCliff's site? :-k

Valve Replacement
(by Mr. Steve)

Starring yours truly.

.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Indeed I have Steve. Used that technique myself with C clamps when I last put valve seals in. But that was with the head off...

 

[posplayr]

google results


I have this one. It would work with the engine out of the frame. It would likely cause some lost keepers trying to do this with the engine in the frame.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-O..._Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item4161db007c

HF has this one

http://images.harborfreight.com/manuals/97000-97999/97975.pdf


Add-on to the first compressor

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-O..._Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item2c61bca96b


a bunch on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...otive_Tools&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=2

 

[tkent02]

I am almost sure non of those compressors will work on a GS with the double springs down in the bucket bores, but good luck.

 

[hampshirehog]

I am almost sure non of those compressors will work on a GS with the double springs down in the bucket bores, but good luck.

You're right Tom - there's no room down in those bores. Getting those keepers back in is fiddly enough on the work bench with the head off and the proper compressor. I don't think this doable and have yet to see photos from somebody who claims to have done it

 

[john82q]

It will be fiddly, and may lead to cursing,

It will be fiddly, and may lead to cursing,

Just watched steves video, still cant see why I cant do it with the head on.


I will need to make "special tools"

- the pvc pipe

- the spring compresser yes this is tricky, frame in way an all, but it might well be a good leverage point.

- a keeper installer, ive seen some that are like tweezers, only the tips are shaped to hold the keepers, used with grease. once on they hold keeper with spring tension till valve is released.

 

[tkent02]

Just watched steves video, still cant see why I cant do it with the head on.


I will need to make "special tools"

- the pvc pipe

- the spring compresser yes this is tricky, frame in way an all, but it might well be a good leverage point.

- a keeper installer, ive seen some that are like tweezers, only the tips are shaped to hold the keepers, used with grease. once on they hold keeper with spring tension till valve is released.

Well, I hope you can make it work.

 

[posplayr]

I am almost sure non of those compressors will work on a GS with the double springs down in the bucket bores, but good luck.

I have personally used the first one to do a GS1100ED head. The only problem is with doing it on a bare head as you torque the head with the handle.

Chef1366 helped me if you want to ask him.

 

[posplayr]

on the floor

 

[Guest]

Just watched steves video, still cant see why I cant do it with the head on.


I will need to make "special tools"

- the pvc pipe

- the spring compresser yes this is tricky, frame in way an all, but it might well be a good leverage point.

- a keeper installer, ive seen some that are like tweezers, only the tips are shaped to hold the keepers, used with grease. once on they hold keeper with spring tension till valve is released.

This would be a great addition to the 'how to' tutorials if you get it to work. If we could change out the seals without having to spend the $$$ on base and head gaskets that would be great. Looking forward to your progress.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

It might just be possible to change the valve seals on the 16 valve head (as in Jim's pictures) as the springs stand proud of the head. But there is no way in the world that you can do this on an 8-valve head while the head is still in place on the motor in the frame. It is a battle to do it with the head on the bench let alone still being on the motor. The motor you are talking about uses the bucket system and these as well as the springs are recessed down inside the head.

I hope you can prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Buddy]

I've done it on an 8 valve head in frame. It aint easy. So hard infact I don't want to relive it here telling how. But I'll try.

I used a piece of rope, a pvc pipe coupling with a window cut in it, a cam bearing block form a junk head, a hose clamp and a pry bar. Feed the rope into the cylinder and turn the engine to put presure on the valves. Put the clamp around the cam block and pry against it with the bar pressing down on the pvc.The hardest part is keeping the spring cap centered in the pvc coupling while you put in the retainers.

Hope that helps,
Buddy