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When do you expect ev bikes to become practical road bikes.

Truth be told I've never been to *any* sort of motorcycle race, to say nothing of an EV motorcycle (or car) race. But one of the most exhilarating spectating experiences I've had was going down to the Indianapolis Speedrome on the southeast side of town to watch a night of racing. Everything from little kids go-karts, to smashed up Honda Civics duking it out (they have to run stock mufflers, actually), to Yamaha-FJ09-powered "Legends" cars that sound amazing, and finally the crazy nitro-methane running Figure 8 cars that are running open exhausts and leave spectators near the fence with bits of tire in their teeth/hair.
 
Truth be told I've never been to *any* sort of motorcycle race, to say nothing of an EV motorcycle (or car) race. But one of the most exhilarating spectating experiences I've had was going down to the Indianapolis Speedrome on the southeast side of town to watch a night of racing. Everything from little kids go-karts, to smashed up Honda Civics duking it out (they have to run stock mufflers, actually), to Yamaha-FJ09-powered "Legends" cars that sound amazing, and finally the crazy nitro-methane running Figure 8 cars that are running open exhausts and leave spectators near the fence with bits of tire in their teeth/hair.

Yup, the grassroots racing down at the speedrome is crazy good fun. We went to a night of flat track racing down there while back, and it was a blast. Very different, and in most ways far better than the high-dollar racing over at IMS, ORP, etc. You can get up close and personal with everything, that's for sure.

Back when we had MotoGP in Indy, I regularly hosted a crowd at my house for that three days of racing. There was also the brief return of flat track races at the Indy Mile at the fairgrounds on 38th street for a few years on the same weekend, not to mention the "Motorcycles on Meridian" event, with thousands of bikes and riders hanging out downtown.

MotoGP was a full three-day event, with several other classes of racing, shows, demonstrations, etc. -- there was pretty much always something happening on the track. And that's where I saw the electric motorcycle races I referred to; this was in 2008 through about 2012, IIRC, so before many of the recent developments in EVs. They also had the Harley XR1200 races, and at least two other classes of MotoGP.



Back to the topic, sort of: as mentioned above, electric or electric-assist bicycles are already big sellers. There are also many other small electric vehicles on the market, like all kinds of scooters and suchlike. One of the persistent issues afflicting these is that the vehicles, or at least the majority of the components, are made in China under thousands of fly-by-night brands, and the design and quality ranges from downright dangerous to just pitiful.

I tried to help a friend of a friend recently who paid well over $3,000 for a high-end electric stand-up scooter (terrifyingly fast and powerful, when it worked). After a few months of use, the electronic components began to fail one after the other. I helped replace many of these, but it was a constant battle. Just accessing common components is far more difficult than needed; the thing was never designed to be serviced or disassembled. If you remove a cover, miles of wires connected (and many not connected) with no rhyme or reason explode everywhere. Fasteners are hidden or inaccessible... it's a nightmare to work on.

After a mighty effort to replace the main controller (an obviously undersized, badly made, improvised gadget if I ever saw one) it worked for about three minutes before failing again. He's pursuing a warranty claim with the importer, but I don't know where that's going to end up.

So I suppose the overall point is that things will be very different, and rapidly get a lot better in many ways, once the established manufacturers get more and more involved in the electric two-wheeler game. They're only dabbling right now, but more, much more, is coming.

The same process is further along in the four-wheeled EV game; Tesla showed the way to make EVs people would actually buy. Tesla did so many things brilliantly, but they also made a lot of mistakes, and are still making a lot of mistakes. Uneven quality is the biggest; quality is extremely hard to do, but the legacy brands have a lot more experience with this. They're rapidly catching up and surpassing Tesla in a lot of ways (although they're also having their own quality and other issues, of course.)

Others (like Zero) are making compelling, high quality electric motorcycles, but they've all ended up with absolutely ridiculous high prices, only affordable for the wealthy and bored.

Buell's Fllow is the first 2-wheeler I've seen offered for a use case that makes sense at a price that (sort of) makes sense, and made with quality engineering in the US or Europe to a quality standard that makes sense. Obviously we'll need to see how these things work out in the real world to find out whether they've actually pulled it off. But so far... it makes sense.
 
With the claims Toyota is making on their new battery, if it is at all truly feasible and affordable, it could make a big impact. 745 miles on a single charge!

I'm posting the link again. I've read up some more on it. Toyota is taking many paths, including burning hydrogen straight. They have developed some impressive engines. :)

A quote from the article:

The Japanese automakers plan to install these batteries into their hybrid vehicles a couple of years before the first EV release. When the solid-state batteries are released in 2027 or 2028, Toyota says the batteries will give their EVs an impressive 745 miles of rangehttps://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-solid-state-batteries-up-to-932-miles/




https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-sol...-to-932-miles/
 
If Toyota has come up with a reliable and affordable solution that meets their claims, it will definitely be a game changer whether you like EVs or not, that's for certain.

As with all things, time will tell.
 
Do deaf people enjoy racing? I think so....because it's not about how loud, racing is about how fast.
Yes they do, and even more so with ICE because when watching a race in person they can "feel" the power! Different strokes for different folks!
I love the sound of a bike screaming at 12K rpm, but perhaps I am becoming like you in my old age because your not going to find me putting an aftermarket exhaust on!
 
Just a few points:

There are dozens of acres of brand new electric cars sitting (and rotting?) in the PRC. Why were they built? Something to do with accounting, and perhaps a mixture of capitalism and communism.

Tesla has built more e cars than it can currently sell.

We all talk about range and price (among other factors), but what about weight?

I'm not even convinced that e cars are the way to go. What if there were a breakthrough tomorrow in hydrogen cells? Or, what if that breakthrough came after e car charging stations were as ubiquitous as gas stations? Yikes!

Remember when every time you filled up (and spent a grand total of 6 or 7 dollars) you got a plate, or a drinking glass, or a slot car toy? That's in addition to all your windows cleaned and your oil checked. And air for your tires was free! :rugby:
 
From what I've I know of Toyota they're not intending to go pure EV at this time. Toyota is moving ahead with hybrids, solid state batteries. Their current Prime model a hybrid is a huge success, Toyota can't keep up to demand the wait list is literally years long with most going to the Japanese home market. When local dealers where l live do get their hands on one it sells well over manufacturers list price. The hybrid approach maybe the most practical approach until the ev charging infrastructure is well established. The Prime has sufficient ev range for urban commutes, the ice engine covers you on long distances. Reports on it's performance are excellent 302hp, combined ev/ice mode zero to 60, 5.5 sec
 
Yep, that's what evolution is, getting things worked out to the point it's worth the effort. Just probably don't need to be pressured into EV's before the technology has evolved to make them worth the effort... No doubt getting closer all the time.
 
With the claims Toyota is making on their new battery, if it is at all truly feasible and affordable, it could make a big impact. 745 miles on a single charge!

I'm posting the link again. I've read up some more on it. Toyota is taking many paths, including burning hydrogen straight. They have developed some impressive engines. :)

A quote from the article:





https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-sol...-to-932-miles/


Yup, Toyota has invested heavily in research and patents, and seems confident that they can be the ones to bring about the next big advances in batteries. They are not generally a company that boasts idly, so I'd take the bare trickle of carefully phrased claims pretty seriously.

They are literally betting the company that they can leap over the battery curve before widespread EV mandates kick in. And obviously, they have long made the world's most sorted-out hybrids, and that tech, experience, and industrial muscle applies to pure EVs as well.

To put this another way, we'd need a sustained blank-check moonshot effort by a major government to equal what Toyota is doing.

I think they'll pull it off.

Can't wait for these kinds of batteries to trickle into motorcycles; we need to roughly double (or more, if we can get it) the current battery limitations in capacity/cost/weight to make electric motorcycles make sense, especially as an only bike.

As noted, some feel that combustion is an integral part of the two-wheeled experience, and will never be interested in electric motorcycles no matter how good they get. But that's a separate issue.

Me, I'd love to add an electric bike to the stable right now; my 7 mile urban commute is a perfect use case even for current EV technology. Obviously, I'll also have ICE motorcycles for a good long time to come.
 
I found a YouTube video that shows how to rebuild a Prius battery, with all parts sourcing listed. Total price, you do the work comes out to around $1700 bucks, as opposed to the $3K the dealership wants. The battery you rebuild has better brake regenerative properties, and slightly more capacity. If you price out what it would cost you to build a Prius, if you could find one in good condition that needed a battery replacement, there's margin for profit, or for having an Hybrid on the cheap. This guy had $4700 into the Prius and sold it for 8K when he was done. I'd post a link, but I don't remember which one I watched, and there are many now. The one I watched had all the parts sourcing with links in the description.

My neighbor had one, and got rid of it when the battery unit went on him last year. He purchased it new. A family member gave him an old Camry, in excellent condition for free. He told me that he had forgotten how it felt to drive a "real" car. He liked the Prius, but would never go that route again. He really loves that Camry.

The reality, I believe, is that many different vehicles will be living side by side. New fuels coming on the market with virtually no pollution (look at what Porsche is doing), and until the costs come down, there will be many ICE vehicles just being repaired and being driven. Since I can fix all my cars, and taking my age into consideration, electric vehicles will not be anything I need to worry about owning. Far too expensive, with 3 cars, a motorhome, and 3 motorcycles. I'm set on vehicles till I expire. I have a 2014 Avalon with a V6. The car is was fast as a car as I need. I have a 2014 Subaru Forester, that easily will average 30 mph, and if I'm careful, 34 mph, tons of space inside. I have a 2005 Subaru Forester that I pull a small trailer with. The car does not burn oil, runs great, and has 240K miles on it. That car owes me nothing.

If somehow I purchased an E.V., I wouldn't live long enough to make back any gas savings, as I don't drive that much these days anyhow. I have no car payments, and that's a good feeling. :)
 
The reality, I believe, is that many different vehicles will be living side by side. New fuels coming on the market with virtually no pollution (look at what Porsche is doing), and until the costs come down, there will be many ICE vehicles just being repaired and being driven. Since I can fix all my cars, and taking my age into consideration, electric vehicles will not be anything I need to worry about owning. Far too expensive, with 3 cars, a motorhome, and 3 motorcycles. I'm set on vehicles till I expire. I have a 2014 Avalon with a V6. The car is was fast as a car as I need. I have a 2014 Subaru Forester, that easily will average 30 mph, and if I'm careful, 34 mph, tons of space inside. I have a 2005 Subaru Forester that I pull a small trailer with. The car does not burn oil, runs great, and has 240K miles on it. That car owes me nothing.

If somehow I purchased an E.V., I wouldn't live long enough to make back any gas savings, as I don't drive that much these days anyhow. I have no car payments, and that's a good feeling. :)
I'm in a similar position I have two used Toyotas, Sienna and Tundra and Honda Civic, other than normal replacement of consumable parts nothing ever breaks and all three are paid for. My kids tell I should get rid of all and just buy a new EV. I could do that but a new EV with monthly payments and Insurance fees will likely be in excess of $1k per month. And there really isn't a EV that would meet my needs, a small dual cab pickup like a Tacoma or Ranger in size that does everything the other 3 do, until that vehicle arrives I'll keep my stable as it is. At my age it may never happen.
 
There is a claimed technological breakthrough that been talked about for a couple weeks, Nobel Prize stuff if it proves to be true. A superconductor that operates at room temperature, Im not a physicist so the science is way beyond me but engineering people are talking about unlimited practically free power. Instant charging, Quantum computers in every home, batteries with unlimited life span, electrical transmission with no loss, if it holds up it'll revolutionize our world a 200yr advancement in technology. If true and its shared and not monopolized by the mega rich it could end poverty forever.

If I live another 20 years maybe I'll live to see it change our world. A thousand mile ev motorcycle with instant recharge, that would work for me.:p

But I also recall another claim a couple decades back about "cold fusion" which didn't hold up.
 
In my many decades, I've heard so many claims that claim "cheap energy", "help the poor", but nothing ever comes of it. If it has all been feasible but is being withheld for some reason, that could never make sense to me. I've studied and have made Hydrogen out of cracking water. Anyone could do that. Your cars battery does it every time you drive, that's what drains the electrolyte in motorcycle batteries. The plates become very dirty though after a while. There are units that people sell to "Boost your cars range", they draw one the amps your car is producing but not using, but it messes up you cars emissions sensors, they read a lean condition, and make the car run richer, any savings gone. Their are Black Boxes that you can add called "EFIE"" that monitors that and compensates by sending a signal to your cars emissions control, but in the end, the savings vs. the costs isn't worth it.

Hydrogen is not a fuel, it is an energy conveyance. It can be made for free using Solar Panels, Wind Mills or Hydrodynamic forces. If done properly, you can have a 98% efficiency rate in conveyance of that energy by combustion, or fuel cell, and your waste product is water and steam vapor. No pollution. That's why company's like Toyota and GM are looking towards Hydrogen and Toyota is building motors that actually burn the Hydrogen, and are ICE types. An ICE type would have no carbon, but would need something to lubricate the moving parts, so there could be pollution from some lubricant getting past the rings, but the oil would not receive any carbon blow back of any significant amount. There is a company in Connecticut running a fleet of propane powered cars. The guy pulled out the dipstick, the oil looked new. He said it had 28K miles on it, they changed it every 30K miles, as the viscosity seemed to get thinner. They sold the used for nearly nothing to their employees, who to put in their gasoline driven cars. The engine bay of that car was spotless. :)
 
There is a claimed technological breakthrough that been talked about for a couple weeks, Nobel Prize stuff if it proves to be true. A superconductor that operates at room temperature, Im not a physicist so the science is way beyond me but engineering people are talking about unlimited practically free power. Instant charging, Quantum computers in every home, batteries with unlimited life span, electrical transmission with no loss, if it holds up it'll revolutionize our world a 200yr advancement in technology. If true and its shared and not monopolized by the mega rich it could end poverty forever.

If I live another 20 years maybe I'll live to see it change our world. A thousand mile ev motorcycle with instant recharge, that would work for me.:p

But I also recall another claim a couple decades back about "cold fusion" which didn't hold up.

Early days yet. Other teams around the world have tried duplicating the results with no real success, but it's maybe a matter of precision of process, which the inventors didn't go into a huge amount of detail about, as far as I know.
Room Temp Superconduction has been the Holy Graily for more than 40 years, to my knowledge, and there have been a few false starts and even fraudulent claims along the way.
 
There is a company in Connecticut running a fleet of propane powered cars.

30 years ago I worked in a lumber yard with a fleet of about a dozen forklifts that ran on propane. Re-upping was as easy as changing the tank on your backyard gas grill.
 
In general, I'm not against EV's but for me, I'd want my EV (car that is) to give me a range of 400 miles and not more than 15 minutes to charge up to say, 75% of full charge...AND...be cost comparable to a similar ICE vehicle. As for motorcycles, being an exclusively vintage Japanese motorcycle(s) owner, when I can buy a vintage bike for $1,000-2,000 and put $1,000-2,000 of parts/labor into it and get several, perhaps many years of use/fun, there's no way the current offerings of electric motorcycle can compare in cost and proven reliability/longevity. I'm 61 and I hope to see several types of alternative power to reduce overall emissions and not produce carbon dioxide in my (remaining) lifetime. However, I don't see it happening for motorcycles given the cost of alternative fuel or electric power engine/systems.
 
At Sikorsky's there were 100's of fork lifts than ran on propane. I had never seen an electric one in there. The air purifiers and exchanging machines that supposedly changed the factories air every 29 seconds. It was actually windy in that shop. They also ran forever. You could tell they were the same ones by all the bumper stickers and other kinds of stickers that gave them each personality. :)
 
There is a claimed technological breakthrough that been talked about for a couple weeks, Nobel Prize stuff if it proves to be true. A superconductor that operates at room temperature, Im not a physicist so the science is way beyond me but engineering people are talking about unlimited practically free power. Instant charging, Quantum computers in every home, batteries with unlimited life span, electrical transmission with no loss, if it holds up it'll revolutionize our world a 200yr advancement in technology. If true and its shared and not monopolized by the mega rich it could end poverty forever.

If I live another 20 years maybe I'll live to see it change our world. A thousand mile ev motorcycle with instant recharge, that would work for me.:p

But I also recall another claim a couple decades back about "cold fusion" which didn't hold up.

hook, line and sinker.
again
smh
 
I will say, I think for a lot of people an EV bike is more practical than an EV car/truck. A lot of folks just use their bike for commuting and/or weekend rides to the bar or car show or just for a stroll. If you don't ride very far and come home every day you can get by on quite a few of the current offerings. But if you're a serious rider I don't think they cut it.
 
EV bikes, EV autos, or EV tractor trailers will probably get here. Just lets give them time to evolve into something that is practical. Just my opinion, we don't need to be forced into them before they are practical.
 
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