YOUR OPINION on air filters

[NelanCustoms]

whats the advantages or disadvantages with eliminating the stock airbox and replacing with 4 single air filters

 

[TheCafeKid]

Advantage...you'll make a bit more HP...disadvantages...its a PITA to rejet. Simple as that.

 

[doug g]

keep your airbox!!!!! like was said earlier you may gain some hp but in my opinion you are better off with the airbox in place.

 

[NelanCustoms]

whats so hard about rejeting it?

 

[TheCafeKid]

Its not that its hard...it can just be frustrating...a bit of trial and error and if your carbs are still mechanicals, you have to sync after ever needle adjustment.

 

[NelanCustoms]

that airbox is starting to look pretty sweet lol

 

[TheCafeKid]

I can give you a good base..but the fine tuning you will have to figure out yourself based on your bikes needs. But yeah..the airbox can start to look a lot nicer after you get redfaced from dicking with the jetting..

 

[tkent02]

Somehow the 850s seem to be a lot harder to get right. No one has a problem with pods on 750s, 1000s, or 1100s but on the 850 the answer is always "No It won't work! It needs the airbox!An 850 will never run correctly without the airbox!" Not sure what the difference is, the carbs on the pre 1980 850s are the same as the 750.
When my sick weak 750 turns into a strong, tight 850 next month I will find out.

 

[TheCafeKid]

For sure let me know kent, im going to eventually do the bore kit on my 750..and while its not exactly the same..i should be able to gauge my carb jetting needs close based off yours..

 

[willie]

Based upon my experience of swapping the airbox for individual filters I can think of a couple of pros and cons. Of course all just my opinion.
Pros: 1) More air and more gas = more power (after rejetting) 2) Lighter overall weight than an airbox 3) Easier to synch when using a Uni-Syn 4) Sure sounds great at WOT
Cons: 1) as stated earlier, can be a PITA to really dial in the jetting 2) PITA to clean and oil each filter 3) air flow may be different after oiling or when element loads up 4) not much peace of mind when riding in the rain 5) most of what I've read about K&N does not portay them as being all that effective.
Just my .02 worth
Willie in TN

 

[Mark M]

No one has mentioned one of the biggest advantage of pods - it is a piece of cake to pull carbs with pods on and a massive PITA with the stock airbox in place. Pull carbs once with the airbox and you will seriously consider pods at that moment. I switched to pods a season earlier than planned because of how tough it was to remove the carbs with airbox in place. The rest stands as described, more power, very cool intake noise, possible jetting issues with pods.

Mark

 

[tkent02]

a massive PITA with the stock airbox in place. Pull carbs once with the airbox and you will seriously consider pods at that moment. I switched to pods a season earlier than planned because of how tough it was to remove the carbs with airbox in place.

Mark

Depends on the model, 5 minutes tops with the two valve 750 type airboxes.
Takes longer to clear a space to work.

 

[salty_monk]

Mine is no big deal with new airbox boots on it.... Went on real easy, I put a longer bolt on one side to make it a bit easier but that was it.

Dan

 

[Mark M]

Depends on the model, 5 minutes tops with the two valve 750 type airboxes.
Takes longer to clear a space to work.

There you go. My 82 1100E, lots of swearing, grunting and nasty thoughts. No where near 5 minutes. With pods, less than 5 minutes... Jetting was no big deal on mine, but I also have factory adjustable needles (Canadian model) and I like working in the garage, so the time spent was not a problem. I think I had the carbs apart 5-6 times in total. For some, that would be considered completely unacceptable. I guess only the individual can decide if they are willing to go there. Carbs are not hard to sort, but you must be methodical and follow it step by step without shortcuts. You never get it right the first time because once you think you have it, you need to try both ways from there to confirm it.

Mark

 

[gunbunny119]

whats the advantages or disadvantages with eliminating the stock airbox and replacing with 4 single air filters

Man, I hope I don't open a can of worms by saying this, but I saw something that made me re-think pod filters such as K & N and the low buck knockoffs. I was an apprentice to a master mechanic when I lived in NC and he was hugely ademate about stock filters or foam filters. When we came in for class at his shop, he was doing an upper-end job on a kaw where there was serious cylinder scoring. The bike owner had switched to a k & N and had compression issues a few months later. Mind you, this was NC, which is pretty prone to sand but it doesn't lesson my point.

He took the filter off the bike, cut it in half and told us to look through it. I could read a newspaper through this filter. He went on to tell us that K & N filters definitely improve performance because they increase airflow, but he believed it was at the expense of engine life. I've always used them on cars, but m/c engines are much more picky. Technically, a few grains of sand can trash a motorcycle engine.

Even if you oil the K & N (which was a retort I heard from a K & N lover), it still doesn't eliminate the risk. for example, if I poured oil on my hand and then poured sand on my open hands the sand may stick to the sides of my fingers but the oil won't help what falls through the gaps in my fingers.

Long story short, you have to consider that increased airflow could well be decreased filtration and thus increased engine wear. I don't know what everyone's experience is here, but this guy recommended foam filters (even foam pods) saying he's gotten dirt bikes in with filters covered in mud with no issues.

Before you say it, he wasn't (nor am I) part of some conspiracy getting kickbacks from uni filters or anything, so please don't get motive into the issue.

I hesitated to bring it up, because I was almost kicked off another forum (I'm also a Yamaha V-star owner) because the moderator didn't like what I said and got a little personal about it. Apparently all those kickbacks I was getting from uni or whoever have yet to hit my bank account.

What does everyone think?

 

[TheCafeKid]

I have a hard time believing alot of this. I personaly dont think minute amounts of near microscopic particulate can seriously cause that much damage, especially when you consider what dirt and scuzz get into your combustion chambers on a fairly regular basis from your gasoline alone. Keep in mind the filters most of us run on our bikes fuel system (excluding those of us who run inline filters) you can read a newspaper thru as well. Im not saying this guy is full of crap or anything, as im sure that dirt and grime and whatnot add to decreased engine life, but im more inclined to believe that this particular engine just as well could have not been properly jetted for pods, causing the damage described by running enormously lean.

 

[gunbunny119]

I see where you're coming from. It's hard to say what caused that cylinder damage on that bike, but he was using it as an example to challenge the way we thought about air filters. It at least got me thinking. Keep in mind, we were in NC which is primarily sand so air filtration is a huge thing for bikers out there. It at least made me more cognoissant of them at least. Just to play it safe, I used oiled foam pods and they work great for me. Man, I hate that oil crap though..Gets on everything.

 

[Guest]

Well, they look good.....

.....and they sound good.....





....and we have Keith to help us dial them in! So what's the big deal? \\/

 

[hampshirehog]

I've pondered this for years and still can't make up my mind - and I've gone the pods / airbox / bellmouth / start again routes more times than I care to remember. From my own experience I've found VMs a doddle to tune in when changing the air intake whilst I don't think I've ever got CVs to work entirely satisfactorily.

From a performance point of view I'm more inclined to think I imagined any gains by dropping the box but I may be wrong.

In this month's CB mag there's an interesting observation about bellmouths: when the inlet valve closes the vapour that was heading towards the combustion chamber, through the carb, 'bounces' backwards. (You can see this big time on a tuned 2-stroke when the ports / reeds / discs close -literally spitting fuel out of the carb at low revs - different situation I know but the same sort of thing). When the 'sucking' starts again on the next cycle, this vapour is drawn back in, though some of it will have been lost to the atmosphere. The theory is that a bellmouth acts as a 'holding area' for some of this lost fuel mix but that the ultimate solution is a large capacity airbox.

I'm inclined to go along with this on the evidence that I have run bikes reasonably well with the airbox attached but no filter inside, whereas if I took the box off the thing would hardly run at all.

Having concluded, I think, that I'd rather stick with the airbox I do have to say that those filters on Renobruce's gleaming motor do look rather nice.

Wally

 

[Steve]

whats so hard about rejeting it?

Actually changing the jets is a piece of cake.
Choosing which jets to put in is the pain.

Pros:
1) More air and more gas = more power (after rejetting)
2) Lighter overall weight than an airbox
3) Easier to synch when using a Uni-Syn
4) Sure sounds great at WOT
Cons:
1) as stated earlier, can be a PITA to really dial in the jetting
2) PITA to clean and oil each filter
3) air flow may be different after oiling or when element loads up
4) not much peace of mind when riding in the rain
5) most of what I've read about K&N does not portay them as being all that effective.

Pros:
1) Properly tuned, and depending on piston and cam changes, might be 5-10 hp?
2) Maybe a couple of pounds?
3) Never use a Uni-Syn, but have used mercury sticks on bikes with stock airbox and others with pods, with no difference in ease of sync.
4) Some of us are into quiet. 8-[
Cons:
1) Part of the PITA is trying to maintain proper oiling. Jetting requirements will change based on restriction of the air filter. Oiling will change that restriction.
2) I have K&N elements in most of my stock airboxes, cleaning is not a problem. I guess it would be more of a pain to have to do it four times.
3) Yup.
4) Have not ridden my 650 much in the rain. That's the only bike I have here with pods.
5) I guess it depends on whose reports you read.

... 5 minutes tops with the two valve 750 type airboxes.
Takes longer to clear a space to work.

I have not timed it, but, in spite of the stock airbox, I could probably have the carbs off my wife's 850L in about 15 minutes. That includes removing the seat and tank.

Well, they look good......and they sound good.....and we have Keith to help us dial them in! So what's the big deal?

Yeah, they look good when they are clean, but some of us appreciate the look of CHROME. \\/
Sound? could not hear the intake due to the header, but it sounds nice, too.
Yes, Keith is a BIG help with jetting problems.

Just my opinion, but you did ask for it.


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