1979 GS850G steering feels, well, not quite right

[ldolamore]

I've had this bike only a few weeks after 35 yrs absence from riding. It's in basically good shape and I ride it but it's not perfect. I'm addressing issues as time allows. The next item on the list is that the front feels not quite right in turns but I have yet to figure if there's a problem or if it's just that the bike is heavy and I haven't adjusted yet. My previous ride was a 1978 GS750 that's around 50 pounds lighter than the 850G. Not a huge diff and my memory of the 750 ride feel is probably hazy at best, but the memory is that the front felt smooth during turns so I felt confident. Hard to describe the feel with the 850G but when leaning into a curve the front feels sort of stepped or slightly incremental, not smooth. It could be I haven't fully acclimated and am unconsciously fighting the bike because when I think to relax and become one with the bike the turn feels much smoother. Maybe the feeling is from taking curves slowly. I wouldn't say the front is wobbling or squirrely, just that I'd expect it to smoothly flow into the curve/lean.

I've elevated the front wheel and pulled on the forks, wheel, etc. but everything feels firm with no play. The wheel turns right/left without a feeling of notched or binding. The Conti Go tires have a 2012 mfg date stamp and look fine. Nearly full tread, no cupping or uneven wear, tire spins freely with no apparent wobble. But maybe the tread design is finding/tracking any road irregularities. Before I replace the tire I think I'll verify the fork oil/air is right. I have ordered fork oil so I can check fork oil and maybe replace it. I've ordered an accurate low psi gauge to check for air pressure.

Am I looking in the wrong places (presuming there really is a mechanical problem, not a rider problem)? Rear tire also appears fine but could an issue with that tire give the illusion that the front tire or front end has an issue. I realize that "when in doubt about a tire no matter how good it looks, replace it" is valid but I'm trying to troubleshoot the situation before throwing money at at.

 

[geol]

Well, given you are not sure, let me point out a couple things I would look at if I suspect this problem. First, I would remove the front tire and take it to a shop and get it spin balanced on a professional machine. Second, while the tire is off, I would replace the wheel bearings. I would also ensure the front forks are true. I would loosen all the headstock and lower pinch bolts and retorque. Last, if this didn't make the front end feel as it should, I would replace the steering stem bearings with a new set of ALL BALLS needle bearings. Prior to any of this, impose on a seasoned rider in your area to ensure it isn't just a faulty perception. The steering on my GS1000G feels fairly light without being sloppy to me but since feeling is subjective, get that second opinion anyway. I would remove and balance both wheels anyway and replace the wheel bearings as that is first line maintenance with a new-to-me bike.

 

[ldolamore]

Those are good suggestions that I very much appreciate.

 

[ldolamore]

I rec'd the low range pressure gauge that I had ordered so I was finally able to check the front forks psi. They had zero psi. I used a bicycle pump and set them at 11.5 psi, not because I have a love for the number 11.5 but it is roughly middle of the recommended range and that's where it ended up. The forks must hold little air volume because it took 15 minutes of back/forth to end up within range and balanced psi between forks. Took a look at the rear shocks. They were set to max firm spring setting and dampener 3. I left the dampener setting but changed the springs to 2. Took the bike for a ride and it feels better (meaning smoother) in the front end when cornering. The rear also feels less jolting over bumps. I have ridden 100 miles since starting this post and I am feeling more comfortable with the bike. There remains room for improving my comfort level but I now think there is no problem with the front end, and it was/is just that I'm slowly acclimating to the feel.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

As said in Goel's post, would add have you checked the fork oil? Does your bike have air forks if so are the pressures correct if they are not air ones remove the two rubber caps that are in the top of the fork legs there is an adjuster in each leg (it has three positions adjusted via a large screwdriver) make sure they are set to the same settings.
Check the swinging arm for play.
as said in Goel's post it may be the 35 year layoff that is the problem as you say it feels better when you gain confidence.
another though are the tyre pressures correct? I ask because someone I know came back to biking after a long layoff and was using the tyre pressures from the owners manual which are far to low for modern tyres.

 

[Big T]

I'm going for tire pressure also. Try mid 30s psi and see how it feels

 

[ldolamore]

Yes, the forks do have air adjustment and I set that yesterday. I bought fork oil to replace and/or to have around when checking the fork oil, but I haven't gotten around to that yet. I did adjust the rear shocks yesterday as well. Hm.m.m.. I wasn't aware of that about tire pressure and modern tires. I had set the pressures as per the manual but I'll try your suggestion. Thanks!

 

[ldolamore]

Thanks, I'll do that.

 

[steve murdoch]

As fbs mentioned do check for a sloppy swingarm.
A sketchy rear end be it swingarm, tires, shocks can easily transfer drama to the front end

 

[ldolamore]

Not knowing the procedure to check the swingarm I searched this site, the owner's manual, and the shop manual, as well as internet search. I give up. I could find info about bearing replacement and such but not inspection. With the bike on the center stand I tugged, pulled, lifted, etc. the back wheel but it all feels tight. That might be a useless exercise but at least from that basic method it seems ok. Bike has 21,000 so I hope the swingarm isn't worn but I don't know the bike's history.
The bike rides a bit better with the higher tire pressure. Seems increasingly likely that all is fine and it's just that I haven't acclimated. Rode to a parking lot to practice maneuvers for the NC DL motorcycle endorsement road test (presently have learner license that has only a single limitation - no passenger). I notice the steering issue at slow speed, say 25 mph or less around a bend. The front feels heavy, for lack of a better description. But the bike is heavy. I don't feel any front any wobble, no steering binding. It just feels heavy and cumbersome.
Wish a GS850G expert lived nearby to ride mine to conclude normal or problem. I don't trust the local shops, in part because there aren't many, and also on-line reviews aren't exactly glowing. I'd like to be not such an amateur but that's where I'm presently at.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

Cannot help you with a test drive (pond is far to big) but your checks seem sufficient that you would have spotted something amiss, as you say the bike is heavy.
i have Avon Roadrider tyres and use 33psi front and 40 psi rear would think your conti's would be around the same.
Perhaps it's just a matter of time to get used to the bike.

 

[Brendan W]

Tyre pressure would have been my first though although they really have to be soft before the steering starts fighting you in turns.
Some riders acclimate to conditions that others consider plain wrong, even dangerous.
Recently I took an R100 for a test ride. The owner swore it was fine but that thing tried it's best to put me in a ditch at the first corner.
Keep trying things out to find your sweet spot.
I'm on Contis 32 front/ 38 rear solo.
When you drain the fork oil collect it and measure the amount each side. If there is a big difference it won't be helping the front end.
Depending on what comes out you may plan to do a few changes in short order until it runs out reasonably clean.
Measure the spring length as well and if they are variable coil spacing see that they are oriented the same way at least.

 

[ldolamore]

Today I (finally) put the bike on the center stand and elevated the front to simply turn the handlebars to learn the feeling of the steering stem. It feels stepped, sort of notched as I turned the steering. When turning left the last bit of turn felt particularly notched just before hitting the steering stop. I didn't feel any other oddity such as wobble or play. I didn't hear a grinding or other bad noise. I'm far from being a genius mechanic but that doesn't seem right. I recall advice from geol a couple weeks ago that I will investigate further - "I would loosen all the headstock and lower pinch bolts and retorque. Last, if this didn't make the front end feel as it should, I would replace the steering stem bearings with a new set of ALL BALLS needle bearings."

 

[jsandidge]

If it feels notchy, the races are worn. I had the same problem. Steering felt definitely "not right". Replaced with the ALLS BALLS bearings and all is well.

 

[Guest]

I ask because someone I know came back to biking after a long layoff and was using the tyre pressures from the owners manual which are far to low for modern tyres.

Who says those pressures are too low for modern tires? I would agree that 28psi is a bit low for street riding, but not 30psi.


Mark

 

[ldolamore]

Thanks, jsandidge! I figured as much. So much for getting an antique bike and expecting to just ride it for at least a while before having to make repairs. When I bought the GS850G the PO seemed to be honest about representing it as maintained and ready to ride, but either he only thought it was OK or I was duped. Anyway, I like the bike so either fix it or get rid of it. It seems to need more money and time thrown at it than I was expecting but I'd rather fix it, which means I have a lot to learn and it's going to take a while. At least half of the time needed seems to be in learning each repair process. Today I noticed the speedometer gear assembly on the front wheel looks to serve as a sort of axle bearing cover, yet there is no apparent bearing cover on the right side. I suppose I'm looking at a seal and this is normal but I don't know so I need to research that.

 

[geol]

Putting the bike on center stand and freeing up the front tire and then moving the bars was probably a better first step than loosening/re-torque of all the bolts as it is far easier to do. If notchy feeling, the steering stem bearings are shot. Putting new bearings in requires some effort but is not technically difficult. Looking on eBay there were lots of choices for bearings from companies I never heard of... this is enough work I would choose a name brand bearing, like All Balls. Genuine Suzuki parts are insanely expensive and not sure I wouldn't choose All Balls in any case.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

Who says those pressures are too low for modern tires? I would agree that 28psi is a bit low for street riding, but not 30psi.Mark

i said I have Avom Roadriders and I would think Contigo's would be similar pressures as for "Who says those pressures are wrong"
Avon says so have a look at the recommended pressures on their website.

 

[ldolamore]

I had also looked at lower priced bearings on ebay, some of which might be fine, but I agree that All Balls appears to be a good choice and is much better priced than Suzuki parts. Like many mechanic jobs I've done, I know enough to believe I can do the job (good success record) but nervous until it's done because I haven't done it before. From initial research it seems the bearing replacement job isn't bad, but I have to learn how much disassembly of other parts is needed.
I'm wrestling with a touch of buyers remorse but largely feel the bike is cool and worth the money and time to at least address the most critical issues. Perhaps I'll find that so rewarding that I'll continue by improving upon the less urgent needs. I feel that my GS850G is fundamentally intact with any issues being related to normal and expected wear, not that anything is tragically broken. Hopefully that will pan out to be an accurate assessment. Thanks to everyone who has offered advice so far. Every little bit helps at this point!