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G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
I discovered I had reversed the order of the disks- I put a friction disk in first. This morning I reversed them to the correct order (steel-friction etc) and used both of the EBC springs. Still a no go, it will move but if you give it any amount of throttle it slips.
Since some of the steel plates have imprints on them, I'm going to replace them and have ordered a set of aftermarket plates.
If that does not work, I'll return it all and buy a stock setup, or possibly a Track King one at the GSX zone (not bad for pricing). They also sell a coil spring conversion setup.
My best guess is the EBC disks are just too thin. I removed 10 and replaced 10, so the correct number are in there. I'll measure them when I pull it apart again.
Since some of the steel plates have imprints on them, I'm going to replace them and have ordered a set of aftermarket plates.
If that does not work, I'll return it all and buy a stock setup, or possibly a Track King one at the GSX zone (not bad for pricing). They also sell a coil spring conversion setup.
My best guess is the EBC disks are just too thin. I removed 10 and replaced 10, so the correct number are in there. I'll measure them when I pull it apart again.
G
Guest
Guest
Slipper?
Slipper?
You made a stainless steel push rod. Did you check the length??? Maybe the "original" rod you found was actually not the correct one? Try shortening the original first and see if it still slips.
G
Slipper?
You made a stainless steel push rod. Did you check the length??? Maybe the "original" rod you found was actually not the correct one? Try shortening the original first and see if it still slips.
G
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
Yes I did. It was within .001 of the original, and as I recall actually shorter. The setup worked fine until the disks delaminated. If it had been too long, the slipping would have been pronounced from the start.
G
Guest
Guest
Try putting a third diaphragm spring in and see.
G
G
G
Guest
Guest
Oh, and check the inner hub to be certain it's not loose and/or the nut hasn't backed out.
And try with out the push rod as well. It could put pressure as the engine warms as it expands.
G
And try with out the push rod as well. It could put pressure as the engine warms as it expands.
G
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
The lever effort seems higher with the two EBC springs. I don't think adding another is the solution. I will measure the EBC disks when I pull it apart.
I'll check the small nut you mentioned. Not sure how I can try it w/o the pushrod? Do you mean start it in gear on the center stand and apply the rear brake?
Estimated ship date on the steel plates went from today to Monday.
G
Guest
Guest
Try
Try
Yes, try the start in top gear while on the center stand and use the rear brake and see.
And, you could also try an extra plate using one of the better old fiber plates adn maybe an extra steel as well. It seems like something is "bottoming out" and preventing the plates from being compressed completely.
I also check the nut that holds the inner to the input shaft as if it's loose, the pusher assembly will not go all the way down. Note, I believe the bearing on teh pusher is the same on all the Suzuki's. Or the pressure plate is bottoming out on teh inner. Check it all when you get it apart. I hope you have the Big socket for it.
Laters
G
Try
Yes, try the start in top gear while on the center stand and use the rear brake and see.
And, you could also try an extra plate using one of the better old fiber plates adn maybe an extra steel as well. It seems like something is "bottoming out" and preventing the plates from being compressed completely.
I also check the nut that holds the inner to the input shaft as if it's loose, the pusher assembly will not go all the way down. Note, I believe the bearing on teh pusher is the same on all the Suzuki's. Or the pressure plate is bottoming out on teh inner. Check it all when you get it apart. I hope you have the Big socket for it.
Laters
G
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
After checking the above, I did what I should have done before installing the EBC disks- measured them. Spec is 2.52 mm to 2.68 mm thick.
Several were below 2.50 mm, some were right at 2.52 and others were around 2.56.
I have contacted Partzilla to see about a return. I'm going to go with OEM parts.
Several were below 2.50 mm, some were right at 2.52 and others were around 2.56.
I have contacted Partzilla to see about a return. I'm going to go with OEM parts.
G
Guest
Guest
Too Thin?
Too Thin?
How about adding a few more plates then since they seem to be too thin?
This would let the pressure plate bottom on the inner and then no pressure on the plates themselves and a little slippage. Oh, if you do try the engine and braking trick, plug up the pushrod hole under the clutch slave. Don't want any leakage.
G
Too Thin?
How about adding a few more plates then since they seem to be too thin?
This would let the pressure plate bottom on the inner and then no pressure on the plates themselves and a little slippage. Oh, if you do try the engine and braking trick, plug up the pushrod hole under the clutch slave. Don't want any leakage.
G
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
I thought about using the old plates with some of the new ones- only 3 old ones were bad, but there is no telling how long they would last. BTW, they are all like 2.6mm+.
The disks have to be added 1 friction/1 steel. As of now, I have 20 frictions (17 with the 3 bad ones) and only 10 steels, so I can't add plates.
Plus, doing the math, if my plates average 2.5mm thick, this gives me an average deficit of .1mm per plate (range is 2.52 to 2.68). Multiplied x 10, this is 1.0mm. Since the minimum plate thickness is like 2.4x mm (the steels are right at 2 mm), even adding one friction plate would make it too thick.
This really turned out to be a lot more work than I ever though it would be. OEM plates will cost about $145 shipped, 2x as much as EBC, but I know they will be the right parts. I just hope Partzilla stands behind the parts they sold. According to their website, I think they will.
The disks have to be added 1 friction/1 steel. As of now, I have 20 frictions (17 with the 3 bad ones) and only 10 steels, so I can't add plates.
Plus, doing the math, if my plates average 2.5mm thick, this gives me an average deficit of .1mm per plate (range is 2.52 to 2.68). Multiplied x 10, this is 1.0mm. Since the minimum plate thickness is like 2.4x mm (the steels are right at 2 mm), even adding one friction plate would make it too thick.
This really turned out to be a lot more work than I ever though it would be. OEM plates will cost about $145 shipped, 2x as much as EBC, but I know they will be the right parts. I just hope Partzilla stands behind the parts they sold. According to their website, I think they will.
A
almarconi
Guest
It looks like the clutch on your bike is setup similar to the one in my RF900.
Consider the following points:
In the suzuki service manual there is a spec for the total thickness of the drive and driven plates when they are stacked up. Usually this measurement is taken with a 5kg load on the clutch pack. Just simply measuring the steels and frictions and adding them up is not going to give you the proper measurement.
What is the condition of the clutch release bearing? If it is worn then the clutch will not engage/disengage properly. Judging from the pictures of your clutch plates, something went bad wrong with the clutch. Bearing is less than $5 and should be replaced anyway.
Inspect the wave washer that rests underneath the clutch pack against the hub. Part 11 on the fiche. Is it within spec and installed in the proper direction.
If there is air in the clutch hydraulic system this will cause problems. Did you service the piston when you overhauled the bike?
Consider the following points:
In the suzuki service manual there is a spec for the total thickness of the drive and driven plates when they are stacked up. Usually this measurement is taken with a 5kg load on the clutch pack. Just simply measuring the steels and frictions and adding them up is not going to give you the proper measurement.
What is the condition of the clutch release bearing? If it is worn then the clutch will not engage/disengage properly. Judging from the pictures of your clutch plates, something went bad wrong with the clutch. Bearing is less than $5 and should be replaced anyway.
Inspect the wave washer that rests underneath the clutch pack against the hub. Part 11 on the fiche. Is it within spec and installed in the proper direction.
If there is air in the clutch hydraulic system this will cause problems. Did you service the piston when you overhauled the bike?
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
I bought a new bearing when I bought the OEM spring. Both the clutch master & slave were honed and the master got new guts while the slave was just polished & resealed.
I don't have a wave washer under the first steel plate, and the GSX-G parts diagram and manual do not show one:
The friction disks are #9 and #10 (different number of pads on them per the shop manual), the steels are #11, the clutch spring is #15 and the release bearing #20.
The RF900 has some parts my GSX-G does not:
#11, 12, and 13 do not cross over, but #14-19 and 21-23 look to all be the same. I know the clutch springs interchange.
I'm really tired of fooling with it. I'm just going to spend the $ for the OEM parts and be done with it.
I don't have a wave washer under the first steel plate, and the GSX-G parts diagram and manual do not show one:
The friction disks are #9 and #10 (different number of pads on them per the shop manual), the steels are #11, the clutch spring is #15 and the release bearing #20.
The RF900 has some parts my GSX-G does not:
#11, 12, and 13 do not cross over, but #14-19 and 21-23 look to all be the same. I know the clutch springs interchange.
I'm really tired of fooling with it. I'm just going to spend the $ for the OEM parts and be done with it.
A
almarconi
Guest
Is there a spec for this in your service manual. When you stack the friction plates with your steels and put the weight on top, how thick is your clutch pack?
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
Yes, with 5 Kg (11#) of pressure, the spec is 46.3 mm, +/- .4 mm (45.9 to 46.7 mm).
Approximating this using my digital caliper, I got 45.97 mm with the EBC disks and 46.55 with the OEM ones (including the three missing some pads). That's a difference of about half a mm. The brand new EBC disks are barely within spec. I swapped out the three bad OEM disks and inserted three EBC disks and got 46.20. If I needed the bike right away, I think this would be the way to go, but as noted above, there's no telling how long the other old disks will last.
APE makes a coil spring conversion for $160 using some factory parts, the trick from what I can tell is to find a washer/washers that are 35 mm OD x 25.5mm ID and 10 mm thick. There is a conversion guide here that lists the needed parts. The author calls for a 10m ball bearing to act as a push rod spacer, and it appears the setup uses an 11th friction disk (11 friction / 10 steel).
G
Guest
Guest
Just try it with one or really two extra fibers. Yes, they can be put against each other. It is not perfect but it will give you an idea as to what the problem is. This should work and if you clutch STILL slips, then there is something else wrong and happening with it. And if you cannot get your money back, just get yourself two steel plates adn add then into the stack. Alternating and you should be fine. I think that the pressure plate is bottoming out on the inner hub so anythign you can do to make the stack thicker will work.
Hope this helps.
Greg
Hope this helps.
Greg
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
After doing some more reading, I went with the Barnett friction plates and K&G steel plates. There was a question about the OEM ones being in stock. The Barnett plates arrived this morning and measure (with the new steels) at 46.39 +/-. Looks like I may be going places. 
The Barnett plates are Kevlar, and the first one I measured was 2.62mm, while the EBC ones were cork and were all thinner. These just look a lot better. Partzilla was awesome- they are refunding my return shipping costs.
Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to soak clutch disks I go...
The Barnett plates are Kevlar, and the first one I measured was 2.62mm, while the EBC ones were cork and were all thinner. These just look a lot better. Partzilla was awesome- they are refunding my return shipping costs.
Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to soak clutch disks I go...
G
GS1000G Shopper
Guest
I guess something is broken on this bike that until recently ran great- and I have the video to prove it.
I put the new Barnett friction plates and new steel plates in and reassembled it with one new OEM and one EBC spring. It's no better. You can basically put it in gear and let the clutch out- the motor bogs but it just sits there.
I have 10 friction plates and 10 steels. They are in the correct order per the shop manual/above diagram (engine side to clutch cover side):
steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction
These are followed by the pressure plate.
Both springs are in place and torqued down via the 50mm nut.
The pushrod end is in place with a new bearing and a washer.
The round piece the pushrod pushes against is in place and held with the large snap ring.
This is definitely the worst clutch job I've ever done, as well as the longest.
I put the new Barnett friction plates and new steel plates in and reassembled it with one new OEM and one EBC spring. It's no better. You can basically put it in gear and let the clutch out- the motor bogs but it just sits there.
I have 10 friction plates and 10 steels. They are in the correct order per the shop manual/above diagram (engine side to clutch cover side):
steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction
These are followed by the pressure plate.
Both springs are in place and torqued down via the 50mm nut.
The pushrod end is in place with a new bearing and a washer.
The round piece the pushrod pushes against is in place and held with the large snap ring.
This is definitely the worst clutch job I've ever done, as well as the longest.
D
dr_fosg8
Guest
Could it possibly be something else in the driveline? Perhaps a stripped driven gear in differential?
G
Guest
Guest
Strippered out?
Strippered out?
Yes, exactly what I was going to say. I also say to try and put ONE extra fiber in and see. And while you are in there, take the nut that holds the clutch inner off and see about removing the inner. I would suspect that this is stripped. It may be aluminum. Then, start checking the drive splines in the universal/driveshaft and then the rear unit where the driveshaft goes into the rear unit.
Otherwise, it would call for a total disassembly of everything to track down the problem as I don't think any of the transmission gears would be stripped.
Hope it helps.
Greg
Strippered out?
Yes, exactly what I was going to say. I also say to try and put ONE extra fiber in and see. And while you are in there, take the nut that holds the clutch inner off and see about removing the inner. I would suspect that this is stripped. It may be aluminum. Then, start checking the drive splines in the universal/driveshaft and then the rear unit where the driveshaft goes into the rear unit.
Otherwise, it would call for a total disassembly of everything to track down the problem as I don't think any of the transmission gears would be stripped.
Hope it helps.
Greg
