83 1100E - tube or tubeless?

[dpep]

I think the message of that thread was if it does not say tubeless they are not.I agree with you it's very strange that Suzuki did 19s tube while the 16 and 17 on the 750 are clearly marked tubeless.

Suzuki did not do all of the 19s tube. In the picture below the 19" on the right that is on the bike is stamped tubeless. It is originally from a 1981 GS1000G I believe. The 19" tire on the left which is from my 1980 GS850G is not stamped tubeless.

Both front and rear on my '82 1100GK are stamped tubeless. It is clear that Suzuki had full sets of tubeless rims for motorcycles before 1983. So if it wasn't tire size and it wasn't by date, what was the reasoning behind retaining the older tire technology for the most advanced model?

 

[Nessism]

So if it wasn't tire size and it wasn't by date, what was the reasoning behind retaining the older tire technology for the most advanced model?

Tooling for the tube type wheels were most likely already paid for.

 

[SVSooke]

(Shrug)Got me.Suzuki does all sorts of things from what I've seen.You are right it does not make sense.(Shrugs again)

 

[bwringer]

If you look at the fiche, the 83 GS1100E was indeed originally equipped with tubes. I have no idea why.

FWIW, the tubeless wheels found on later model shafties were made by Enkei. Did a different supplier make the 83 GS1100E wheels?

Anyway, here's the counterbore and pilot we used to convert George's front wheel. We didn't need to use it on the rear because the middle inside of the wheel was flat. On the front, it was rounded so we had to create a flat spot for the valve stem.

5/8" counterbore with 5/16" pilot, purchased from an aviation tool supplier:

Demonstrating usage on a random wheel (this wheel is actually already tubeless -- it was just handy) :

Mind you, there is an additional bead retention ridge on tubeless wheels that you may not have on tube wheels. When you seat the beads on converted wheels, there's not that loud "pop pop" -- just a couple of muffled pops or maybe a "squish" noise.

The decision to convert to tubeless is a personal one. If you don't feel you fully understand the process, benefits and risks involved, or if do understand it and you're not comfortable with it, then keep using tubes.

I know of several successful conversions, and have never heard of a failure on a converted GS. I have heard that in some countries it is actually illegal to go tubeless (unless the wheel is marked as such), and that in the event of an accident, modifications such as this can even be cause for denying insurance payments or pressing charges.

 

[TheCafeKid]

As already stated by many, the 83 1100E wheels are not stamped "tubeless". They were also NOT made by Einke (sp) but another company that I cannot recall off the top of my head but it begins with an "A". However, I've been running tubeless on my 1100ES for three plus years.. The latest front has been on for nearly two seasons (wore quite nicely... Avon venomX for anyone interested) and never once have I had a problem. Tire Unlimited installed it as well and did not question me about it, which leads me to believe at some point "tubeless applicable" stamps went away or they just don't care. Btw I didn't chamffer out my valve stem seat and dint have a leak but I may have just gotten lucky. I would suggest that if you're going to convert to tubeless however that you clean the rim quite well.

Later models (700/750/1150) had the same cast pattern but were tubeless, and I seem to remember them being Einke wheels, so maybe that's the reason.??? If you do change, I'd follow brians suggestion and keep an eye on it for a few weeks especially when the temps change ( like now) quickly durring the day. If you see no change, go back to checking it as you normally would.

 

[Joe Nardy]

My law firm, Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe, informs me that the correct answer is to run tubes.

That being said I have heard stories of certain people running tubeless tires on '83 GS1100E's for decades with no problems whatsoever. Of course, I cannot recall who those people may be and cannot confirm or deny whether the stories were actually factual or chemically induced. And I cannot confirm or deny that I have ever been in a chemically altered state of mind to have heard any chemically induced stories........

 

[dpep]

This discussion gives me wonder about the physics involved. If you have a sudden blowout at speed, is that small little lip going to have a marked effect on how the deflated tire carcass will behave? If so, would it not have the same effect when an inner tube deflates? Why would it not be a part of all rims? It is the same tire whether or not you put a tube in it. Does this mean that non "tubeless applicable" rims are inherently less safe than tubeless rims whether or not you use an inner tube?

Has much if any testing been done to confirm the efficacy of that lip in real world blowout scenarios? What sort of history do we have of crashes or other incidents caused by the absence of a lip on a tire rim? These things would be good to hear because the overwhelming body of empirical evidence seems to favor that there is little if any difference between the two types of rims in normal use. I simply have never heard from anyone who had a serious problem based on the design of the rim, only on the condition (cracks, casting flaws, etc.).

 

[salty_monk]

Must have been to do with tooling as the 16" front on 83 750E/ES is tubeless & to that pattern (as is the 17" rear).

 

[bwringer]

This is a tubeless front wheel and there's no ridge:

 

[jheurte]

As already stated by many, the 83 1100E wheels are not stamped "tubeless". They were also NOT made by Einke (sp) but another company that I cannot recall off the top of my head but it begins with an "A".

They were made by Asahi. At least that's what's stamped on mine.

 

[mcycle-nut]

Interestink! :-k Neither my '82 E or my '83 ES have rims that say "tubeless" on them. The '82 E is at the present in tubeless form, as that's how it was when I bought it, and I didn't even think about whether that was the norm or not. I have not changed tires on the '83 ES yet, but it appears to have tubes in it, just by looking at the valve stems.

 

[trumpetguy]

My 82 GS1100E rims are tube rims, but I am terrible at mounting tires with tubes in them -- I pinch it EVERY time. I put enough miles on my bikes that I don't want to pay someone else (or have to get them to a shop) to mount tires. When it still had a tube in it, I had a flat on the rear and ran it flat with my wife on the back. I was new to the bike and had never run two up and didn't know it was flat. The tire stayed on the rim at highway speeds with a passenger. I'd say the security lip is not all that important (MY opinion only).

So on my most recent rear tire replacement in May I decided to go tubeless in the back. I cleaned the rim really well and smoothed any nicks in the seating area with a file. I used a scrubber to get all old rubber off and rinsed it clean before mounting the new tire. Front tire was not replaced, still has a tube in it, and it needs air added regularly. The rear holds air flawlessly and handles great. I have done a long tour loaded with camping equipment and several long rides two up with NO issues.

FWIW, as hard as it is to break the bead loose on those tube wheels, I'm not even a little worried. I have a 98 Suzuki and it is absolutely no harder to break the bead on that one (WITH the safety ridge).

 

[Guest]

The rims on my 83 GS1100E say nothing about tube or tubeless. Although the closest thing I found was "TB". After running tubes since I've owned the bike I installed one of these tubeless valve stems on the rear last night. This morning the tire was still at 35 psi. After a ride I'll post an update.

http://www.bikebandit.com/drag-specialties-metal-valve-stem

 

[Guest]

This discussion gives me wonder about the physics involved. If you have a sudden blowout at speed, is that small little lip going to have a marked effect on how the deflated tire carcass will behave? If so, would it not have the same effect when an inner tube deflates? Why would it not be a part of all rims? It is the same tire whether or not you put a tube in it. Does this mean that non "tubeless applicable" rims are inherently less safe than tubeless rims whether or not you use an inner tube?

Has much if any testing been done to confirm the efficacy of that lip in real world blowout scenarios? What sort of history do we have of crashes or other incidents caused by the absence of a lip on a tire rim? These things would be good to hear because the overwhelming body of empirical evidence seems to favor that there is little if any difference between the two types of rims in normal use. I simply have never heard from anyone who had a serious problem based on the design of the rim, only on the condition (cracks, casting flaws, etc.).

I don't know how much testing was done on the bead sealing ridge. I can only guess, and here is my guess: The ridge makes no difference when the tire is properly inflated. But when the tire is low on air, and simultaneously it severely disturbed (hitting a pothole at highway speeds) the bead could be induced to slide a bit, leading to instantaneous loss of all air in the tire.

I personally would not run a tire without a tube on a motocycle rim that doesn't have the ridge. In your circumstance, I'd probably get a replacement 19" wheel from another model of Suzuki. Other option: Check tire pressure before every single ride.

 

[bwringer]

I personally would not run a tire without a tube on a motocycle rim that doesn't have the ridge. In your circumstance, I'd probably get a replacement 19" wheel from another model of Suzuki. Other option: Check tire pressure before every single ride.

Mmkay, what about the wheel in my photo above that clearly does not have ridges, yet is marked "TUBELESS"? (That wheel is from an 1100G or GL, FWIW.)

Hmmm? Hmmm? What about THAT?

 

[Guest]

Mmkay, what about the wheel in my photo above that clearly does not have ridges, yet is marked "TUBELESS"? (That wheel is from an 1100G or GL, FWIW.)

Hmmm? Hmmm? What about THAT?

You've got me there!

Here's a guess: a scheduling screw-up at the factory. The TUBELESS label probably made it into the sand casting, while the grooves didn't. A few times I saw the wrong sidewall marking plates put into tire molds. Those tires were always scrapped.

And another guess: DOT probably requires the bead ridge for tubeless motorcycle rims. Just a guess.