'85 GS550 Bobber Rescue

[Latrans]

To start off, I have a couple confessions.

First, this isn't a restoration, or even anything close. I haven't the time, money or skill to hack the frame back to anything resembling stock or replace everything that has been stripped off. I am just trying to get this cycle back on the road and maybe give it a little performance boost along the way.

Second, this is the first Suzuki I've owned, and after this project is wrapped, I may not be as active. However, the GS Resources site, and this forum in particular, have been immeasurably helpful so far and I hope that I might be able to give back a little of what you have given me even this early in the project.

So now on to the project itself!

So I picked this poor thing up from Craigslist for $300. Here's a video of it, several PO's ago. It's running, and while not pretty by motorcycle standards, is at least well taken care of by the guy filming. This link was included with the Craigslist post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8fZ6jjL-OY

Here's a photo from the Craigslist post.

And these last two are from when my roommate got it home.

Just the change from the video to current should tell you how little the most recent PO knew about bikes and how ready he was to put that knowledge to use.

Changes I've noticed include, but are not limited to:
Different air box. The one on the trailer doesn't quite fit and is tagged as being off a GS550E.
Tank, fuel cap, headlight shroud, pipe tips and various other bits spray painted black... poorly.
Rear brake pedal is missing.
Brake light is missing.
Tank bushings are all missing.
Tank left to rust, heavily.
Fuel cap key is missing.
Mirror is gone.
Wiring harness is exploded (note wires hanging from the neck in the first picture).
Ignition box is smashed (I can hear your evil giggles already).
Numerous scrapes and road rash suggest it's been laid down at least once on each side.
Head light filament broken out and replaced by a bare bulb connected with hand-twisted wire.
Front forks raised through the triple trees several inches, kinking the clutch cable.
Starter switch replaced by an off-the-shelf push button.
Battery box replaced by a bent-up box from who-knows-where.

I may have payed too much for this thing...

And so I have a number of tasks ahead.

-Tires
I'm going back to the stock sizes. That oversized front wheel just doesn't do it for me.

-Seat
Going to fab up a couple pads to screw down to the diamond plate that is there now. I haven't decided if I want to put some seat springs in there as well.

-Wiring harness
I'm going to build one from scratch. I've already pulled all the wire off save for a starter motor lead, stater leads, ignition pickup leads, and r/r lead. The stator leads will end up trimmed to fit with the r/r. The starter motor lead will be trimmed to fit wherever I end up putting the solenoid. And the ignition pickup leads will be replaced when I put in a Dyna S. The rest of the bike will be pretty minimal. The busted headlight is getting replaced with a sealed unit and the missing tail light with a brake/turn signal combo. I'm putting a generic ignition switch in one of the fairing mount points on the triple trees. The stock controls should still be good for everything else (turn, high/low beams, starter). I'm using this wiring diagram as a basic guide and this stock diagram for details like making sure the Dyna gets hooked up right.

-Carbs
Between the missing airbox and trimmed exhaust I decided to go with pod filters and a re-jet. Following several recommendations, I'm putting in a Stage 3 kit from Dynajet. This is, of course, coupled with new float bowl gaskets from BikeBandit and o-rings from cycleorings.com. I don't have any way to start from a stock reference point for tuning them so I'm going to have some trial and error ahead of me. This carb specification chart is going to be my very good friend through these trying times.

-Engine
The motor seems to be in mostly decent shape save for a couple sheared side cover bolts and a layer of dust. The video noted that the engine bogged down at high RPMs and I see no reason to suspect that it ever got fixed. A little research pointed to worn valve springs to be the culprit so those will have to be replaced while the motor is out for cleaning. I'll also take the chance and check my valve gaps. To go with the Dyna S mod, I'll need to install a mechanical advance. There isn't much documentation on the difference between the Nippon Denso and Kokusan points and their respective mechanical advances so I'm hoping I purchased the right combo (DS3-1 kit and this advance). I should be able to get a couple of cover bolts from my local salvage yard to replace the two sheared ones.

-Fuel tank
For the moment, I'm letting the tank sit. If I acid wash the rust out now, it will just flash-rust on me before I can get gas in it. That stuff shows up fast. It happened within an hour last time I did it. From what I've heard, you can prevent this by following the acid wash with a splash of diesel to coat the metal, but haven't tried it and seems like a temporary solution at best. On the outside of the tank, I'll be giving it a sanding and repaint, but haven't decided what color yet. I've never used a spraygun before so this should be some good practice. I'm also replacing the trimmed and painted (with no key) cap with a stock lookalike. I won't know if I need to rebuild the petcock until I have fuel in the thing and can check for leaks.

-Frame
The frame seems structurally good in most places, but could use a good cleaning and repaint. My roommate (much better with a welder than I) will also be doing some work on the couple spots that look questionable and adding mounting points for the battery box, both of which will be on the seat area.


TL;DR
I got a PoS and want to un-fornicate it enough to make it ride-able.

 

[Brendan W]

Paraphrasing the song you have there a ' Nightmare of Un-fornication '
It's a sorrowful as an abused pup at the animal shelter.
I might hold off on the valve springs thinking or hoping that carburation is the real culprit.

 

[tkent02]

You paid a high price for a parts bike.

 

[Nessism]

That's a parts bike. It will cost you hundreds of hours of labor and a LOT of money to get back on the road, and even if you did the bike is unsafe. Cut your losses.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with the valve springs.

 

[JamesWhut?]

OTOH- The patina on the tank and frame is cool. It takes many years of neglect to achieve that.

But Latrans, like others have said, you've only made the down payment on that bike...

 

[Latrans]

You paid a high price for a parts bike.

Perhaps I did, but are you going to tell me I'm wrong?

BTW, there is nothing wrong with the valve springs.

And you know this how? The research I did said the likely culprit to be valve float, but if you have other sources, I'd love to read them.

But Latrans, like others have said, you've only made the down payment on that bike...

Oh, don't I know it. I'm almost $900(USD) into parts and I haven't even gotten any of them yet.:grey:

On the plus side, this next week is going to contain a lot of joy in the mail.

 

[Fjbj40]

Do your jetting and valve clearances before frigging with the valve springs, that is probably a lean bog, no filters or exhaust causes it to behave like that.

As stated, it's probably not your valve springs. But it's your bike, throw unnecessary money away if you wish.

As a side note, there are a lot of really smart people on this forum, I'm not one of them, and they can help!

Getting a little snarky as a newb will not help you.....

Good luck and have fun with your project.

Cheers

 

[Nessism]

Dude, it's not the valve springs. If you pull the head to change the springs you are CRAZY.

I'm not going to say anything more unless I see some mufflers added to those pipes. I've already said too much. I don't help people running loud pipes fix their bikes.

 

[Latrans]

Do your jetting and valve clearances before frigging with the valve springs, that is probably a lean bog, no filters or exhaust causes it to behave like that.

As stated, it's probably not your valve springs. But it's your bike, throw unnecessary money away if you wish.

As a side note, there are a lot of really smart people on this forum, I'm not one of them, and they can help!

Getting a little snarky as a newb will not help you.....

Good luck and have fun with your project.

Cheers

Given that the bike was shown with a stock airbox and only lightly modified pipes when the problem was reported, I figured it to be valve float, but you (and Brendan) may be right about it being the carbs. Only time and work will tell. To avoid having the motor out twice I'll probably get the carbs done before pulling everything apart for an aesthetic clean/paint/touchup just in case it is the springs.

And I must agree that there are a lot of smart people here. It's what prompted me to join the forums to begin with. Unfortunately there also appear to be some people who are quite offended by the idea of trying to rescue anything other than a stock bike (I'm looking at you, Nessism) and I'm not afraid to tell someone who's being rude and unhelpful to shove off. Snark may not help, but if someone has earned that snark I likely don't want their help anyways.

And thanks for the wish of luck! With these kinds of projects we could all use as much luck as we can get.

Dude, it's not the valve springs. If you pull the head to change the springs you are CRAZY.

I'm not going to say anything more unless I see some mufflers added to those pipes. I've already said too much. I don't help people running loud pipes fix their bikes.

Again, please back up your statement or don't make it to begin with. Two other people were kind enough to make alternative suggestions while you continue to just tell me what you are so sure it is not without explaining why. Also, I won't need to pull the head. You can replace the springs without pulling the valves by pressurizing the cylinder with an air compressor hooked to the spark plug threads. The air holds the valve in place so it doesn't fall.

I also agree that you've said too much, please don't say anything more. It is obvious you have a beef with this bike and anybody associated with it. I didn't even build it. I'm just trying to rescue it from rotting in some scrapyard somewhere. Just because the changes don't fit your personal tastes doesn't make it wrong. To be honest, I don't like loud pipes either but that wasn't my decision. You don't see me complaining about it, though. You've been nothing but confrontational and unhelpful so I kindly suggest you go play somewhere else that doesn't offend your delicate stock sensibilities.

 

[tkent02]

Never heard of valves in a 550 floating, even at 12,000 or so RPM. On the other hand just about every GS with CV carburetors will run like that unless it's jetted correctly for any changes in intake or exhaust.

 

[Griffin]

I'm going to try to be helpful here. If I come across as a bit short, it's only because there are probably fifty things that need to be done to this bike, and I'm not going to type a four page long dissertation on resurrecting a horribly abused GS back from the dead. I've resurrected/restored about fifteen GSes, CBs, XJs, and KZs from various states of neglect, as have Nessism and tkent02. We know what we're talking about, it's up to you to listen and have a chance of success, or ignore free advice and get frustrated enough to pass it along to another unsuspecting, would-be restorer.

If you go to dynatek's website, you'll discover that the Dyna S ignition does not fit that bike, the contactor cover is too small and it doesn't have a mechanical advance.

http://dynaonline.com/products/sportbikes/dyna-s.aspx .

If the ignition box is smashed, you're S.O.L. until you locate one on ebay or at a bike breaker's shop.

Once you get your ignition issues sorted out (and not before), I wouldn't do anything else to that bike. I don't know what you've ordered parts-wise, but I wouldn't touch anything until the ignition works. If your search for an ignition solution does come to fruition, then you can worry about the rest. If you give up on a possible ignition solution, then you could possibly find an '83-'86 GS550E/ES/L in better shape and use this for a parts donor (although I don't see much on that bike that could be used).

That being said, I wouldn't worry about valve float. If it were that, then you'd pretty much have a first on this board. That's not to say it's impossible, but there are a dozen more likely possibilities to address before tearing the head apart. If you do get the ignition functioning, here's what I'd look at next to get the motor running:

valve clearances
carburetor jetting
intake air leaks
exhaust leaks

Unfortunately, you've got one of the most difficult GS models to restore, and it's in about as bad a shape as a bike could be for a starting point. Good luck with your project, I hope you can make something useful out of it.

 

[JamesWhut?]

Given that the bike was shown with a stock airbox and only lightly modified pipes when the problem was reported,

Dude, given the condition of the bike, the motley assortment of previous owners of that poor bike are various degrees of idiot. You can safely take everything they said (about what a PO said) about it and ignore it.

You can get it running one of two ways; Overhaul, where you tear the motor down, inspect, repair and adjust everything to factory spec. Or trial by fire, where you simply try to get it running by replacing parts and fixing what breaks as you go. Both cost about the same in time and money in the long run, but the former has much better odds of success.

Oh and the cranky old timers are worth putting up with their crankiness.

 

[Latrans]

Never heard of valves in a 550 floating, even at 12,000 or so RPM. On the other hand just about every GS with CV carburetors will run like that unless it's jetted correctly for any changes in intake or exhaust.

Many thanks. This is, by far, the most precise reason I've found for why it's not valve float. My conclusion was based on the assumption that the intake/exhaust had only been lightly modified and research on motors in general.

I'm going to try to be helpful here....

If you go to dynatek's website...

If the ignition box is smashed, you're S.O.L. ...

That being said, I wouldn't worry about valve float...

Good luck with your project, I hope you can make something useful out of it.

That was actually very helpful. Thank you. While it was primarily information I had already found in my searching, the fact that you're willing (and obviously knowledgeable) is most appreciated. And don't worry about writing a long paper on how to get this beast back in running order, I've mostly started this thread as a record of my journey and decidedly less as a plea for help. If I have problems, I'll ask but for the most part I've got the plans and processes mostly sorted.

On the Dyna S, I'm aware that it isn't a straight replacement. Dynatek didn't even produce an aftermarket kit for the 83-87 years and aside from a couple rather questionable questionable (and/or currently un-findable) others. Fortunately, putting a mechanical advance from an earlier bike is a straight bolt-on. The hard part, then, is the Dyna plate not matching the mounting holes. Fortunately this is the only problem and cutting/drilling the plate to fit is a fairly straightforward endeavor (after finding TDC, which isn't marked on the 83-87s). Here's some of the more useful links I found:

Retrofit of a gs750 pickup and igniter box onto a gs550:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?175784-550-Igniter-interchange-success!!!!!!!!
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?176555-550-Igniter-interchange-part-2

And this writeup on the instalation of a Dyna S on 77-79 gs550s:
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/cbsaunders/gs/upgrade_to_electronic_ignition.pdf

If this works, I'll see if I can't put together a half-decent writeup for future generations.

 

[Latrans]

I completely missed your post, James. Sorry about the lack of reply. I only accept the high-rpm bogging issue because it was specifically mentioned in the linked youtube video (when the bike was still running) and have every confidence that all subsequent owners did nothing positive to fix it.

Anyways, I got the first bits for the carbs in the mail to day!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/Carb Bits.jpg

I've also drawn up a wiring schematic with everything approximately where it'll be on the bike. No link to that yet as it's all just blue ballpoint pen and a bit hard to follow. Going to clean it up and color it with an image program before sharing.

 

[loud et]

Hey, I recognize that Jolly Rancher. Lol
Every time I get an order from Bob and I squeeze the package when I pull it out of the mailbox I think" Oh it's bumpier than just o rings.....I must have ordered some ss bolts too" And I get all happy and rip the pouch open and see its not ss bolts and curse that Jolly Rancher. ....then I eat it. Haha
Good to see you are getting things going right with the carbs....it will be a long project but you can certainly make something out of this bike. Keep at it.

 

[Latrans]

Only a day later and I got a bunch more toys in the mail! Behold!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/More Bits.jpg

That's a new fuel tank cap, tail/brake/turn combo light, 3" radiator hose to fab up some pod boots, valve springs, Dyna S ignition, clutch cable, blinker indicator, and throttle cable.

Yes, I ordered the valve springs and then discovered it was probably a pointless gesture. Oh well.

I didn't get a chance to re-do the harness in an image program, but wanted to share anyways. If anybody spots a problem or has a suggestion, please don't be shy about letting me know.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/Bobber Harness.jpg

And just for kicks, here's my garage at the moment.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/The Garage.jpg

No, none of them are road worthy... *sadface*
From left to right:
Honda Nighthawk 250 (crashed it a couple weeks ago and bent the forks)
Suzuki Marauder 750 (carb issues, sitting while my roommate buys it from a mutual friend)
Suzuki GS550L (the bike this thread is about)
Honda GL500 Silverwing (frozen clutch)

 

[Nessism]

Another thing about valve springs, for your edification, not to stick your nose in the dirt...

The ideal springs to use will be those with the lowest possible tension to keep the valves from floating at high rpms. OEM companies like Suzuki design the springs to do just that, with a little margin to avoid float in the case of an over rev situation.

Springs like those APE jobbies you bought have a HIGHER than stock spring tension because they are designed for use with high lift cams. Using them on a stock bike will accelerate valve train system wear, the exact opposite of what you should be striving for.

 

[Latrans]

All the last bits that were in the mail have arrived!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/Bits Mk III.jpg

Bondo (fill a couple dings in the tank. Bought locally, but included because reasons)
Rubber pads, grommets, and inserts for mounting the gas tank
Mirror
Foot pegs
Float bowl gaskets (the last bit I needed before re-doing the carbs)
Ignition switch

Not pictured, but in my hands: mechanical advance. This weekend is going to be busy.

Nessism, no dirt rubbing was felt. I appreciate the info. I'm going to hold off on installing them until after I've finished up the carbs and eliminated them as a potential cause. If it turns out I didn't need them, I won't be using them.

Lastly, I finally re-drew the wiring diagram. I was going to do it in GIMP, but forgot it's not installed on my laptop, so I threw it together in MSPaint instead...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/Bobber Harness Color.jpg

The red and green wires switch at the tail/brake light because the assembly has those as the colors in the pigtail which is opposite what I had been running for the rest of the bike.

I also probably could have made it a little less confusing with a couple more wire colors, but six colors is what I had, so six colors is what I drew.

 

[Latrans]

Progress has been annoyingly slow, but that's largely due to being a weekend-only project and occasionally having my weekends taken up with family things (like my daughter's birthday).

Anyways, I finally got the bulk of the wiring harness done. I've hit a light impasse in that I ran out of heat shrink tubing and can't do the battery/starter solenoid until the batter box is sorted a bit better. What I don't have finished yet...
-Temporary wiring to test the stock (but likely broken) electronic advance.
-Tail/turn light assembly connectors.
-R/R connectors (includes stater to R/R wires)
-Blinker relay (just need to buy one)
-Battery wires
-Starter solenoid (needs ground and battery/starter motor wires)

Here's the battery box area. The heavy wires for the battery/starter motor will all need trimmed/routed. You can also see where the harness ends behind the battery box. This is where the tail assembly will connect.

And here is the front end. You can see the ignition switch, plate to hang the blinker relay, and blinker indicator. The mass of wires below/behind the ignition switch is where the controls half and frame half of the wiring harness come together (but aren't currently connected).

So for the moment I broke into the carbs. A couple of the screws holding the CV boot covers were, nicely put, stuck. I managed to twist an impact bit trying to get them out and was sincerely worried I might crack one of the carb bodies. I didn't want to use heat/penetrating solvents for worry of harming the CV boots. Fortunately they all came loose in the end. However, I've hit another slight impasse. The Dynojet kit is missing a slide weight and they sent me only half the instructions. I'll have to contact them on Monday to get it straightened out.

Carb with impact driver. Because reasons.

On the plus side, I got the new tires mounted. Just that has helped the bike look more like a bike. Once the carbs and wiring harness are completely sorted, I'm going to see what kind of magic I can work on that rusty old tank. I was going to do that last, but have decided to get the bike running before pulling the motor out to clean up the frame. I also want to see if the ignition box is functional before putting in the Dynatech.

 

[Latrans]

A quick attendem to the last post: Getting the fuel needle pistons apart was a bit of a head-scratcher but I finally got it sorted. The service manual says to use long nosed pliers, but the forces I was using (and the pliers teeth) were starting to mar the (30 year old!) plastic. After a bit of thinking I came up with this solution:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/Removal.jpg

I pulled the holder plate off the CV boot and slipped the piston back into its slot. Then, carefully wedging two flat-head screw drivers between the piston and the plate, I twisted in opposite directions. Worked SO much better than trying to use pliers. And didn't mar the plastic either.

Here's a couple reference pictures I took before I figured this thing out:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/CV Pistons.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/gundamzuki/Pistons Top and Bottom.jpg