A coupla Kreem Questions

[robsGS850]

So after removing my old petcock only to find it coated in rust flakes, decided to try a tank liner. (could only find the Kreem kit)

Just a couple questions:

? I've fabbed up two homemade gaskets for the petcock and gas gauge holes, is it ok to use the stock metal/rubber gas cap to seal the main filler hole? (will the acid and etching etc screw up the rubber bits on the cap?)

? how can i drain the tank completely (all the various steps) when there's that metal apron that surrounds the inside of the gas filler hole? Not sure how much my homemade gaskets on the petcock and gas gauge can withstand repeated removals. Or is that just part of the ordeal?

Thanks for any advice,
rob

 

[Larry D]

I've read not to use the filler cap while coating the tank. The cap has a vent that will also get coated and ruin it.

When I did mine, I was lucky enough to have a friend fab me up a hard plastic cap that fit very snugly into filler hole. He actually turned it on a lathe. If I can find it, I'll be happy to send it to you. Not sure however it's the same size. But, I'll look when I get home.

Having the coating around the top of the filler hole won't hurt a thing.

You really just need anything that will be liquid tight. The por-15 mixtures I used didn't even make a mark on the plastic.

 

[Billy Ricks]

I'd be leery of using Kreem. Many here have had bad experiences with it. Por-15 is the way to go.

 

[Jaguarjoe]

I used epoxy tank liner from Caswell Plating on my tank. It worked great and was easy to use.
To seal the holes for the gas cap and fuel sender, I used expandable rubber plugs from McMaster-Carr. They only cost a few bucks apiece. I used modelling clay to seal the 'ears' on the gas cap hole.

 

[rodm850g]

kreme questions

kreme questions

RobsGS850,
Let me start with a comment first....DON"T use Kreme.....google POR-15 andsearch their site for the motorcycle tank kit.I just finnishe doing mine and they tell you to pour it into from the top.....{use a funnel}. This can get several discussions going at one time but....cross my heart the por-15 is by far safer to use {as directedd} than the Kreme.....
First part is a "marine clean" it will remove the residue and leave the tank with a sodium coating that will be removed with addition of the second part that will leave the tank "etched" ready for the sealant ,which reminded me of silver paint. I comes in a half pint can and you wonder will this stuff be enough....It is. I sealed my tank by cutting up "bondo" spreaders,I got these same time I got my por-15 kit.petcock, out plugged w/ spreader...did same to the hole where the furel sender is placed. I also put in short screws the size of the ones for t he petcock and coated them heavily in release compound....inside of the spreaders had a liberal coat applied there too.....It is highly reccomended to follow instructions to the letteer....I used a heat gun to dry tank between cleaning and the etching steps. You really want it dry to apply the sealant......from there they reccomend a 96 hour curing time frame...I would also add an inline fuel filter for good measure. The instructions are fairly clear, and yield good results.....A visit to their web site should arm you with basic ability to clean and seal a motorcycle gas tank..... Good luck
Rodm850g

 

[Nessism]

I’m doing a tank right now, stripping out a failed Kreem job. Paint stripper softens the coating and turns it to mush. Por-15 sealer is much tougher in my experience. Caswell epoxy is another good choice, particularly if the metal is thin since the epoxy is quite thick.

The petcock and sending unit holes can be sealed nicely using metal plate and sheet rubber – as already noted. To seal the main opening I use a large rubber stopper (Lowe’s sells them). My stopper is drilled down the middle and a long screw and molly are attached. The molly (or simple metal plate) catches the underside of the filler lid and holds the stopper firmly in place after you tighten the screw.

Key to getting a good sealing job is to remove as much rust as possible. You may have to leave the phosphoric acid inside the tank for several days. A few handfuls of pea gravel or aquarium rocks really helps scour the metal surface. Take your time and give the acid enough time to work and your sealing job will last.

 

[1948man]

So, you just put the stripper in and let it work and swish it around and pour the suspended Kreme out? I guess that makes it sound pretty simple but I'm just hoping it's not the multi-day ordeal I read about in another thread that involved getting Por 15 out. My tank is Kremed and I am getting nasty stuff in my in-line fuel filter. I'm getting ready to dip and clean my carbs so I figure it's worthless if my tank and petcock situation isn't resolved. Also, if you drain the tank and work on the Kreme and have to then wait several days to get your Por 15 or Caswell, is there a problem with the empty tank starting to rust in that period of time? Would a gallon of stripper do it?

 

[makenzie71]

Another vote against Kreem and for POR-15. I had hell stripping a bad kreem job out of my TL1000S' tank.

MEK works good for breaking kreem down. Gasoline also seems to do a pretty fair job.

 

[1948man]

The Caswell site says use a paint stripper with methylene chloride. Is that the same as MEK?

 

[makenzie71]

Methyl Ethyl Keytone (MEK) is a strong etching compound...it's the primary component in PVC pipe primer. It's a little stronger than methylene chloride.

 

[tkent02]

I spent hours pulling loose chunks of Kreme out, don't go there.

POR 15 rocks.

 

[1948man]

Maybe I should just leave the Kreme in there. The filter on my petcock looks new. Maybe the PO put in a new petcock. I can't figure out why that filter seems to filtering almost nothing (it's clean) and the in-line filter below the tank is getting fine black stuff. I know the in-line filter is not a great idea but I just didn't trust the kreme.

 

[tejasmud]

Removing a Kreem liner/coating inside a tank is way more involved than just pouring in the stripper, sloshing it around, and pouring it out from my experience.

A little detail on "my experience?"

I used the Stripper from the POR15 Heavy Duty Restore Kit, after that quit working I used a can of methylene chloride based stripper, and then used about 1/2 gallon of acetone over a two day period of shaking and rotating periodically. With the POR stripper and methylene chloride stripper, which are the same thing for the most part, I used aquarium rocks. After doing so, I had later read that aquarium rocks are sometimes coated with epoxy, and the stripper uses up some of its strength stripping the rocks. I don't know if this is true, but makes sense if they are coated. I would mention that aquarium rocks are a pain to remove, but so is anything else. With the Acetone I used about 150 drywall screws, the old Kreem was still coming out in chunks, but it removed the last of the Kreem. I ended up using a shop tool magnet to retrieve the screws through the fuel gauge sending unit hole.

My personal opinion?

It Sucks Big Time! Even when you are going to strip the outside to do a repaint anyways it still sucks.

I couldn't imagine trying not to get stripper on the outside of a nicely painted tank during the process. One issue in some cases, the Kreem was used to solve a leaky pin hole issue inside a tank. Removing the Kreem usually opens up any patches that the original Kreem covered, and then when you rinse/etch the inside of the tank with the phosphate wash it also will remove any rust covering potential holes. I ended up brazing the pin holes, but this was on a fully stripped tank that would be painted. Sort of a bad thought if you were trying not to goof up a decent existing paint job.

Also, POR15 is really lucid and it might cover some tiny pin holes in a tank, but anything larger it can and usually will seep through. I had one small pin leak that I missed during brazing, and I thought the POR might have sealed it. After the tank was painted gasoline found the pin hole.

Getting any of the POR15 coating on a nicely painted tank needs to be removed quickly, and if allowed to dry it is tough to remove.

Stripping out an failed Kreem liner might be one of those things I would wish on an enemy. lol

But, it is worth it if you would like to have a clean tank, and not have to hassle with crap stopping up the filters or sediment reaching the carbs.

E

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

If you are planning to paint? Find a radiator shop to boil it out, maybe even coat it

 

[1948man]

Thanks for the details on the Kreme removal. Doesn't sound like much fun. The radiator shop sounds like an idea. Any opinions why my petcock screen isn't showing signs of a lot of muck?

 

[tejasmud]

Thanks for the details on the Kreme removal. Doesn't sound like much fun. The radiator shop sounds like an idea. Any opinions why my petcock screen isn't showing signs of a lot of muck?

If the Kreem is flaking off in pieces too big to pass through the screen filter on the petcock they will just float around in the tank. Kreem should not disolve in gasoline and turn to muck/sludge.

Stripper will turn the Kreem to muck/sludge, but once the pieces dry they turn hard and brittle.

Rust is normally what you will see pass through the screen since the particles are much smaller. They will be redish/brown naturally. The Kreem is more of a tan/beige color, and if the particals are small enough they will pass through the screen as well. This is probably what you are seeing in the inline filter.

I have no clue as to what the inside of your tank looks like, but in opinion if the tank doesn't have large patches of Kreem flaking off and it is not grossly rusting you might be able to just do a scrub/wash the tank out with some screws and Evapo-Rust. Basscliff has a tutorial on his Bikecliff website with pictures called "Tank Cleaning with evapo-rust," bottom left on the page, if you have not seen it yet.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

This will clean it up a bit and should knock down the sediment for a while. As long as you keep and cycle gas through the tank the rust should be minimal. In theory not allowing the gas to break down, and the lack of oxygen should keep any rusting at bay. Although all the Kreem coating will not come out with the Evapo-rust treatment, over time the failing Kreem coating will most likely continue to slowly fail as the gasoline migrates under the coating.

If you decide to try to strip the coating with some sort of stripper, I would steer clear of using the plugs in the tutorial. The red plastic peices will melt, I can say this from experience.

I have not tried the Evaporust with the plugs, seems like they were not affected in the tutorial.

E

 

[1948man]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to go ahead and clean my carbs and see if I can live with my tank for a while. If not, I guess I'll get a little more experience cleaning them again and redoing my tank. The in-line filter seems to be catching stuff. My bike pulls fine but stumbles a little from 3K to 3500. From what I read, my problems may due to having PODS (unifilter) without a DJ Kit. The bike pulls good at higher rpms so it seems the in-line filter isn't restricting flow.

 

[Nessism]

Removing a Kreem liner/coating inside a tank is way more involved than just pouring in the stripper, sloshing it around, and pouring it out from my experience.

It Sucks Big Time! Even when you are going to strip the outside to do a repaint anyways it still sucks.

I AGREE!!!! Stripping the tank is NO FUN. Heavy duty paint stripper works best in my experience, but it's nasty stuff. One caution: make sure you allow the tank to out gas while the sauce is cooking since the chemical reaction causes outgasing and your tank will pooch out if it's sealed too tight (don't ask me how I learned this).

 

[Justonv]

I too had an experience with stripping out a Kreem liner put in by the PO. It was coming out of the tank in long gooey strings and gunking up my carbs and petcock. Used acetone and a handful of nuts and washers. Shook it and shook it and shook it. Took several days doing it. Then of course had to patch the pinholes in the corner by the petcock. I relined it with a product called Red Kote, it seems to be pretty good, no problems with it, other than the red dye they use for you to see your coverage coming out in my fuel for a while, but it didn't do anything but turn my inline filter element red. No biggie.