Adjusting valves w/degreed cams

[Greg B]

Just wondering what the general consensus is.
Do you turn the crank until the "T" mark lines up, and adjust the appropriate valves.
Or do you look at the notches in the cams to see when they are parallel to the top of the head?
Of course, when the cams are degreed, the "T" and the notch on the intake cam and the notch on the exhaust cam never line up all together .
I use the notches myself.
What say all you other folks?

 

[Flyboy]

I guess any way is good, as long as you get the heel of the lobe over the bucket, giving maximim clearance, marks become irrelevent, so yes I tend to agree with your way.

 

[Steve]

Why not just use the factory-recommended settings? :-k

I have never degreed any cams, so I am asking this in a quest for education, but just how many degrees away from stock are your cams?

I am under the impression that cams only get moved a few degrees, and, at the recommended settings for checking/adjusting clearance, you will still be on the base circle, so a few degrees difference will still give the same reading.

Please correct me if this assumption is incorrect.

.

 

[koolaid_kid]

When making changes such as milling the head, it changes the relationship between the cams. Degreeing the cams merely puts them back into the exact factory specifications. In fact, those that claim they know things say that degreeing the cams actually makes it more accurate even on stock configurations, due to manufacturing slop, chain stretch, etc.
Having said that, I use the visual method to adjust my valves. When the lobe of the cam is 180 degrees away from the valve, I adjust that valve. No marks are necessary, I can see that the cam is not affecting the valve.

 

[Nessism]

When making changes such as milling the head, it changes the relationship between the cams. Degreeing the cams merely puts them back into the exact factory specifications. In fact, those that claim they know things say that degreeing the cams actually makes it more accurate even on stock configurations, due to manufacturing slop, chain stretch, etc.
Having said that, I use the visual method to adjust my valves. When the lobe of the cam is 180 degrees away from the valve, I adjust that valve. No marks are necessary, I can see that the cam is not affecting the valve.

The hot rod guys often change the cam timing to better augment what they want from the engine (high rpm power, low end power, etc), so it's not as simple as restoring the factory settings for most of these guys. That said, most of the time the deviation from stock is not extreme so adjusting the valves on the factory timing marks is fine.

Suzuki's adjustment method is really simple, and only calls for rotating the engine to four positions to adjust all the valves. This method places adjacent valves (or pairs of valves with the 16v engines) on the cam base circle so the adjacent valve springs are not pushing up on the cam and skewing the cam within the journal bearing clearance, thus leading to inaccurate clearance adjustment.

I can't think of any reason to deviate from the Suzuki method, but many people do it anyway. Good thing is there isn't going to be a whole lot of difference anyway so it's not such a big deal. At least people are adjusting their valves. We'll call it good either way.

 

[gearhead13]

There is only two positions that the cams need to be in to adjust valves (at least on 4 valve engines, I never did a 2 valve). One is with notches facing in the other with them facing out. On one, you do one intake on one side and 2 ex and 1 in on the other, turn the cams and do the remaining intake on the one side and the two exhaust and the other intake on the other side.

 

[Steve]

... When the lobe of the cam is 180 degrees away from the valve, I adjust that valve. No marks are necessary, I can see that the cam is not affecting the valve.

Not sure how the 16-valve engines are adjusted, but that is not recommended for the 8-valvers. For them, you set the cam so it is mid-way between two valve 'events' and check both of those valves.

The purpose of this thread (as I see it) is to determine whether you still line up the "T" mark or use something else. Since the cam timing will be at most just a few degrees away from stock, I would say to use the stock settings and line up with the "T". Someone with a bit more experience with degreed cams would be able to give you a more-definitive answer.

.

 

[gearhead13]

Not sure how the 16-valve engines are adjusted, but that is not recommended for the 8-valvers. For them, you set the cam so it is mid-way between two valve 'events' and check both of those valves.

The purpose of this thread (as I see it) is to determine whether you still line up the "T" mark or use something else. Since the cam timing will be at most just a few degrees away from stock, I would say to use the stock settings and line up with the "T". Someone with a bit more experience with degreed cams would be able to give you a more-definitive answer.

.

I dont know why you would line up tdc unless you were setting up a degree wheel.

 

[Nessism]

I dont know why you would line up tdc unless you were setting up a degree wheel.

Maybe because when the exhaust cam notch is pointing inward the engine is at 1-4 TDC.

 

[7981GS]

I use the visual method to adjust my valves. When the lobe of the cam is 180 degrees away from the valve, I adjust that valve. No marks are necessary, I can see that the cam is not affecting the valve.

I have been doing it that way forever on the Suzies.
Just like you adjust the valves on any other motor.
Simply the most accurate method.

Daniel

 

[Nessism]

Suzuki's adjustment method places adjacent valves (or pairs of valves with the 16v engines) on the cam base circle at the same time so the adjacent valve springs are not pushing up on the cam and skewing the cam within the journal bearing clearance, thus leading to inaccurate clearance adjustment.
.

I use the visual method to adjust my valves. When the lobe of the cam is 180 degrees away from the valve, I adjust that valve. No marks are necessary, I can see that the cam is not affecting the valve.

I have been doing it that way forever on the Suzies.
Just like you adjust the valves on any other motor.
Simply the most accurate method.

Daniel

Rock on buddy. Don't let any stupid old manufacturer tell you what's right or wrong.

 

[7981GS]

10-4 good buddy.
And whatever YOU DO, DON'T use FACTORY torque spec's.
Who needs 'em? Right?

Daniel

 

[koolaid_kid]

Rock on buddy. Don't let any stupid old manufacturer tell you what's right or wrong.

Awesome! I have a buddy!

 

[koolaid_kid]

Rock on buddy. Don't let any stupid old manufacturer tell you what's right or wrong.

I also do not use the Suzuki values for tire pressure. And I - GASP - leave my petcock on virtual PRI for an hour or more while I tune/adjust the carbs. Worst of all, as soon as I get my pillows home I tear the tag off!
I guess I will be cursed to the halls of Honda-dom forever. Oh, the shame.

 

[blowerbike]

suzuki tells you how to adjust them with the least amount of rotations.
the 16 valve cams have a funny ramp and are deceiving.
this also stands true for the 8 valve engines except the lobe's are symmetrical.
less rotations=less work...sounds good to me.

 

[Nessism]

Awesome! I have a buddy!

I also do not use the Suzuki values for tire pressure. And I - GASP - leave my petcock on virtual PRI for an hour or more while I tune/adjust the carbs. Worst of all, as soon as I get my pillows home I tear the tag off!
I guess I will be cursed to the halls of Honda-dom forever. Oh, the shame.

My comment was actually intended for Mr. Sarcasim (7981GS), but since you are stepping up and owning it, I'm okay with that.

 

[koolaid_kid]

That's O.K., Ed. We have always gotten along and will continue to do so.
It reminds me of a former boss, who only knew one way to do things. If you did not do it his way, it was wrong. I tried time and time again to demonstrate that there was more than one way to skin a rabbit. He was unable to see this, which is why he is now a former boss. :twistedevil:
All I was attempting to point out is that the goal of rotating the cams is to insure that the lobe was not riding on the shim cup. There is more than one way to do that. Since this is a major job on my bike (speaking of the GPz) I want to make sure it is correct before I start putting things back together. So I double check and triple check the settings, and I also make absolutely certain that the lobe has no contact with the shim cup.
And I agree with your earlier comment about hot rodders advancing or retarding the cam timing, but I suspect that is not the case here. In fact, when I went to degree the GPz cams I read on the GPz750 mods page that drag racers had experimented with various timings and found the factory setting of 108 degrees to be the best.

 

[Guest]

Suzuki's adjustment method is really simple, and only calls for rotating the engine to four positions to adjust all the valves. This method places adjacent valves (or pairs of valves with the 16v engines) on the cam base circle so the adjacent valve springs are not pushing up on the cam and skewing the cam within the journal bearing clearance, thus leading to inaccurate clearance adjustment.

Yep. This is the RIGHT way to do it. Any other way is INACCURATE. There is a REASON for doing it this way, as explained above.