nah... how about Redman?! Great story. Enjoy.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/739/1...--Greatest-Motorcycle-Racing-Achievement.aspx
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/739/1...--Greatest-Motorcycle-Racing-Achievement.aspx
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Required reading for all forum users!!!
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Best Rider Ever: Hailwood? Ago? Rossi?...
- Thread starter Frank Z.
- Start date
John Surtees from my corner.
O
ozman
Guest
great story thanks
ozman
ozman
W
Wester Cooley
Guest
They don't call him The King for nothing!!!
He won on road courses, miles, half miles, TT's, and short tracks.
And he did it without all them electronic gizmos that are on today's bikes.
REAL MEN RODE 500cc GRAND PRIX!!!!!
He won on road courses, miles, half miles, TT's, and short tracks.
And he did it without all them electronic gizmos that are on today's bikes.
REAL MEN RODE 500cc GRAND PRIX!!!!!
Kenny Roberts, sears point 1978. Cycle magazine had a great account of the race. Roberts had to start at the back of the grid. Said he had to get by as many riders as he could before the front runners pulled to far away. He was passing riders in corners were nobody passed nobody three at a time. Sliding both tires riding like a mad man... He won the race. I still have the magazine. It's the one with the pretty girl with the RD400 on the cover.
W
Wester Cooley
Guest
Wasn't that 1977?? Best seven or eight laps of road racing ever seen in the U.S.
Didn't he drill Gary Nixon for the lead through the esses?? Like you said, NOBODY passed anybody there, but The King did!!!
Between those first few laps at Sear Point, and his ride at the "75 Indy Mile on the Tz750 were among some of the best rides ever from The King!!!!
Joey Dunlop for me.
Yes, Wester you are right. When I get home I'm digging that magazine out.
What about Motocross? Hannah gets my vote!
Yes , he's got my vote!
eddie21
Forum Mentor
Maybe it's because I've been watching all of the diving antics in the World Cup, but it made me think of toughness when it came to this thread. I remembered this story about Eddie Lawson and how toughness, both mentally and physically, can be a such a huge asset!
"Lawson raced the only Grand Prix spec 500 Kawasaki ever produced, the KR500 in the Formula One race at Laguna, a day after his Superbike win. The bike, although technically advanced, was never really competitive with the OW61 Yamaha of Roberts or Mamola's Suzuki RG500, the chassis too long and the engine underpowered; Fast Eddie had to ride like a psychopath to keep them in sight. Outside of Laguna's old turn two, the Kawasaki shredded a front tire and spit him off. Eddie collided with a bank of earth, snapping his seventh vertebrae in two and shoving a piece of vertebrae into his spinal cord, momentarily paralyzing him. As I was laying there and thought, 'Well, now you did it'.
And then a few moments later the swelling went away and my movement came back. For about a month after that I could move my head down and my feet would just vibrate, like electrical shocks.
Local medical personnel did not find the broken vertebra in x-rays and told Lawson to go home, reasoning he was only badly beat up. Eddie went home, carried both his bags of luggage into his mom's house and collapsed. After a day or so of intense pain and a burning sensation from between his shoulder blades, Lawson's mother took him to a specialist.
After many X-rays, the doctor rushed into the examining room, Dont move! Don't turn your head, don't get up. Don't even sneeze! He'd found the splintered vertebrae and fitted Eddie with a chrome halo to wear as not to disrupt the mending. He also ordered him not to race for the remains of 1982, he could become permanently paralyzed if he crashed again. Eddie Lawson, your season and perhaps your racing career is over. Lawson snorted in response and glared at the Doctor.
After some thought, Lawson agreed to sit out the next two rounds. After all, he had a comfortable lead in the championship, all was not lost. Pocono, the next round of the series was in a month, Sears Point a month after that. Lawson, it was thought, would assuredly miss both of those round, maybe more. This was just the break Mike Baldwin and Honda needed. With Lawson out, a strong showing by Baldwin could turn the tides. The responsibility to hold Baldwin of fell on the shoulders of Wayne Rainey. Baldwin, an old hand at racing by this time, found himself surprised at how Rainey came on in Lawson's absence. Rainey dogged him, showing traits he would become well known for later in his GP career. He'd grab onto Baldwin's draft and wouldn't let go. Every time he made a slight mistake or turned his head back, Baldwin would see that green Kawasaki of Rainey. Coming onto the start and finish at Pocono for the last time Rainey suffered a transmission failure and cruised to the flag in second place. He hadn't help Lawson's lead but Rainey had certainly proven himself as a opponent.
Lawson was still a question mark for the remainder of the season - in all eyes but his own as usual. Funkhouser noticed Lawson spectating the Carlsbad USGP motocross race; it was not an pleasant scene. The contraption that they had attached to Lawson's head and neck looked more like a medieval torture instrument than anything to aid in his healing. Funkhouser remembers, "I saw him from a distance and I thought, Oh God, we're finished, the championship is over. I went over to talk to him and he was his same old confident self. He nonchalantly said, yeah, don't worry, I'll be back. We'll win this championship. That's my strongest memory of Eddie that year, him standing there with a apparatus on his head, not even able to move his head, announcing that we were still going to win the championship!"
Really though, if you have someone in mind as your #1 guy... you are right!
"Lawson raced the only Grand Prix spec 500 Kawasaki ever produced, the KR500 in the Formula One race at Laguna, a day after his Superbike win. The bike, although technically advanced, was never really competitive with the OW61 Yamaha of Roberts or Mamola's Suzuki RG500, the chassis too long and the engine underpowered; Fast Eddie had to ride like a psychopath to keep them in sight. Outside of Laguna's old turn two, the Kawasaki shredded a front tire and spit him off. Eddie collided with a bank of earth, snapping his seventh vertebrae in two and shoving a piece of vertebrae into his spinal cord, momentarily paralyzing him. As I was laying there and thought, 'Well, now you did it'.
And then a few moments later the swelling went away and my movement came back. For about a month after that I could move my head down and my feet would just vibrate, like electrical shocks.
Local medical personnel did not find the broken vertebra in x-rays and told Lawson to go home, reasoning he was only badly beat up. Eddie went home, carried both his bags of luggage into his mom's house and collapsed. After a day or so of intense pain and a burning sensation from between his shoulder blades, Lawson's mother took him to a specialist.
After many X-rays, the doctor rushed into the examining room, Dont move! Don't turn your head, don't get up. Don't even sneeze! He'd found the splintered vertebrae and fitted Eddie with a chrome halo to wear as not to disrupt the mending. He also ordered him not to race for the remains of 1982, he could become permanently paralyzed if he crashed again. Eddie Lawson, your season and perhaps your racing career is over. Lawson snorted in response and glared at the Doctor.
After some thought, Lawson agreed to sit out the next two rounds. After all, he had a comfortable lead in the championship, all was not lost. Pocono, the next round of the series was in a month, Sears Point a month after that. Lawson, it was thought, would assuredly miss both of those round, maybe more. This was just the break Mike Baldwin and Honda needed. With Lawson out, a strong showing by Baldwin could turn the tides. The responsibility to hold Baldwin of fell on the shoulders of Wayne Rainey. Baldwin, an old hand at racing by this time, found himself surprised at how Rainey came on in Lawson's absence. Rainey dogged him, showing traits he would become well known for later in his GP career. He'd grab onto Baldwin's draft and wouldn't let go. Every time he made a slight mistake or turned his head back, Baldwin would see that green Kawasaki of Rainey. Coming onto the start and finish at Pocono for the last time Rainey suffered a transmission failure and cruised to the flag in second place. He hadn't help Lawson's lead but Rainey had certainly proven himself as a opponent.
Lawson was still a question mark for the remainder of the season - in all eyes but his own as usual. Funkhouser noticed Lawson spectating the Carlsbad USGP motocross race; it was not an pleasant scene. The contraption that they had attached to Lawson's head and neck looked more like a medieval torture instrument than anything to aid in his healing. Funkhouser remembers, "I saw him from a distance and I thought, Oh God, we're finished, the championship is over. I went over to talk to him and he was his same old confident self. He nonchalantly said, yeah, don't worry, I'll be back. We'll win this championship. That's my strongest memory of Eddie that year, him standing there with a apparatus on his head, not even able to move his head, announcing that we were still going to win the championship!"
Really though, if you have someone in mind as your #1 guy... you are right!
N
NoH2Oh
Guest
Best Rider Ever: Hailwood? Ago? Rossi?...
As a non-racer (unless you count on the back roads with my pal on his Honda 750 Super Sport
) I have no idea what it takes on and off the track to be the best. One thing I am certain of though is the best is not racing today. Sorry, but I have much more awe and respect for those that raced before the computer(s) and GPS controlled race bikes of today.
Oh and the best? Mike Hailwood. C'mon people, he WON a TT race after 11 years out of the sport.
As a non-racer (unless you count on the back roads with my pal on his Honda 750 Super Sport
) I have no idea what it takes on and off the track to be the best. One thing I am certain of though is the best is not racing today. Sorry, but I have much more awe and respect for those that raced before the computer(s) and GPS controlled race bikes of today. Oh and the best? Mike Hailwood. C'mon people, he WON a TT race after 11 years out of the sport.
M
madjack57754
Guest
Thought the world of Mike "the bike", but Yvon Duhamel was the most talented rider I ever saw. Got to team with him in the Winnepeg/St.Paul 500 snowmobile race in the 70's riding a FoxTrac of all things...
not a hi-jack but a diversion....
Jack here is a neat article about one of the snowmobile races.
You guys were a lot tougher back then than we are now.
http://www.snowgoer.com/snowmobile-...mel-shares-the-secrets-of-i-500-victory/1013/
Jack here is a neat article about one of the snowmobile races.
You guys were a lot tougher back then than we are now.
http://www.snowgoer.com/snowmobile-...mel-shares-the-secrets-of-i-500-victory/1013/
O
OldTimeBiker
Guest
As great as Mike Hailwood, Ago, Joey Dunlop, John Surtees, etc. etc. are They were only road racers. The truly greatest motorcycle racers are much more talented than those who only race on pavement! I have three riders that I would rate high above all those mentioned. First is Kenny Roberts. He was extremely talented and could do it all in the high speed sports. In road racing there is no denying his talent but his ability to pitch a flat track bike around was just as amazing! He rates third on my list because of his talent and "fire in the belly" determination to win...he wasn't a very nice guy and didn't endear himself to others, especially those he looked at as his inferiors but, his talent and desire was outstanding.
My second rider is Gary Nixon...Another rider whose tenacity was super human...the only type of race he never won (at the national level) was American style (dirt) TT steeplechase. Because of injury he never realized his full potential but he continued to bounce back and stay competitive LONG after a lesser man would have quit. The way he was screwed out of the World F 750 Championship was a crime but, he took it in stride and continued to race competitively in vintage events into his '60's!
The rider I pick as the greatest of all time is Dick "Bugsy" Mann. He was the consumate motorcycle racer and he succeeded at every discipline he tried. Not only was he one of the toughest flat track and road race riders America ever produced but he was instrumental in getting motocross going in the USA and he raced the best Europe had to offer and beat them at a time when he was at least 10 years their senior! In addition he was an excellent off road rider with exceptional skill in enduro and ISDT (AKA ISDE) type competition. After a long career as a pro track racer and at an age when most guys have long left motorcycle racing behind Dick qualified for and competed in the ISDT and won a Bronze medal. On top of all of that...during most of his career he raced as a privateer, which makes his accomplishments all the more amazing!
Them's my 3 cents, such as they are!
My second rider is Gary Nixon...Another rider whose tenacity was super human...the only type of race he never won (at the national level) was American style (dirt) TT steeplechase. Because of injury he never realized his full potential but he continued to bounce back and stay competitive LONG after a lesser man would have quit. The way he was screwed out of the World F 750 Championship was a crime but, he took it in stride and continued to race competitively in vintage events into his '60's!
The rider I pick as the greatest of all time is Dick "Bugsy" Mann. He was the consumate motorcycle racer and he succeeded at every discipline he tried. Not only was he one of the toughest flat track and road race riders America ever produced but he was instrumental in getting motocross going in the USA and he raced the best Europe had to offer and beat them at a time when he was at least 10 years their senior! In addition he was an excellent off road rider with exceptional skill in enduro and ISDT (AKA ISDE) type competition. After a long career as a pro track racer and at an age when most guys have long left motorcycle racing behind Dick qualified for and competed in the ISDT and won a Bronze medal. On top of all of that...during most of his career he raced as a privateer, which makes his accomplishments all the more amazing!
Them's my 3 cents, such as they are!
I agree Dick Mann.
He medaled in the ISDT
He won road races, including against Hailwood
He won Nationals on mile dirt ovals
He won Nationals on half mile ovals.
He won Short Track Nationals
He won TT Nationals
He won Motocross Nationals.
Add in the fact that he built a lot of his own machines.
He had a real knack for going fast enough to win, and rife easily enough to make his bike run at the finish. His wins at Daytona in 1970 and 1971 are a true testament to that. I believe his was the only Honda running at the finish of the 1970 Daytona 200. Hailwood's Honda, of course was not. His BSA outlasted Hailwood's at the '71 Daytona 200. And he was like 40 years old.
He designed the frame for the OSSA flat tracker, and the Yankee 500 twin dual sport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Mann
There is a book on him: "Mann of his time". a pretty good read.
http://www.amazon.com/Mann-His-Time-Ed-Youngblood/dp/188431340X
My second favorite would be Gary Nixon, then maybe Mark Brelsford. Mert Lawill belongs in there too though.
He medaled in the ISDT
He won road races, including against Hailwood
He won Nationals on mile dirt ovals
He won Nationals on half mile ovals.
He won Short Track Nationals
He won TT Nationals
He won Motocross Nationals.
Add in the fact that he built a lot of his own machines.
He had a real knack for going fast enough to win, and rife easily enough to make his bike run at the finish. His wins at Daytona in 1970 and 1971 are a true testament to that. I believe his was the only Honda running at the finish of the 1970 Daytona 200. Hailwood's Honda, of course was not. His BSA outlasted Hailwood's at the '71 Daytona 200. And he was like 40 years old.
He designed the frame for the OSSA flat tracker, and the Yankee 500 twin dual sport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Mann
There is a book on him: "Mann of his time". a pretty good read.
http://www.amazon.com/Mann-His-Time-Ed-Youngblood/dp/188431340X
My second favorite would be Gary Nixon, then maybe Mark Brelsford. Mert Lawill belongs in there too though.
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R
rudeman
Guest
KR for me too.
He used to wrap duct tape around his knees when racing to keep from wearing through the leather while hanging off. Soon after he started doing this the European GP fans began wrapping their knees with "Kenny Roberts Tape".
It absolutely killed the European racers that an American could so completely dominate "their" sport the way King Kenny did. There are stories about KR having to cut his own rain grooves so he could race on a track wet from rain. He asked the tire vendors present to sell him some rain tires but they refused, forcing him to cut grooves in his Goodyears. I think he went on to win that race.
From Wikipedia: "In a 13-year professional racing career, Roberts won two Grand National Championships and three 500 cc world championships including 32 Grand Nationals and 24 Grand Prix road races. He also won the Daytona 200 three times and was a six-time winner of the Laguna Seca 200.[SUP][/SUP] He was the second AMA rider after Dick Mann to accomplish the Grand Slam of winning all five events of the Grand National Championship."
While I don't think you can really say who "the best" is/was, I've been following racing for almost 40 years and have a list of guys I'd nominate.
Kenny Roberts - There is no more important figure in the history of the sport. He dominated as a rider, changed the way people rode, dragged the business of GP racing into the modern world, made racing much safer. 300 million people watch MotoGP today, that would be unthinkable without KR.
Freddie Spencer - Beat Roberts in a straight up fight in '83, and then did the 250/500 double in '85. Maybe the greatest raw talent ever?
Lawson/Rainey/Schwantz - hard to separate these guys, you could make an argument for any of them. Forced to choose, I'd go with Lawson.
Marc Marquez - This kid is the real deal. I saw him in Austin last year when he won his first GP and was just astounded. I predicted then that he'd win the championship that year, and go on to dominate. Lot of people thought I was nuts.
No, Rossi and Doohan don't make the list.
Of the non-roadracers.
Bubba Shobert/Ricky Graham - Again, guys you can't separate. Their battles in the mid 80s are the greatest racing the world has ever seen. Graham was the best pure dirt tracker I ever saw, it's a shame he couldn't overcome his personal demons.
Ricky Carmichael - For years I said I'd never see a better motocrosser than Bob Hannah. I was wrong.
Kenny Roberts - There is no more important figure in the history of the sport. He dominated as a rider, changed the way people rode, dragged the business of GP racing into the modern world, made racing much safer. 300 million people watch MotoGP today, that would be unthinkable without KR.
Freddie Spencer - Beat Roberts in a straight up fight in '83, and then did the 250/500 double in '85. Maybe the greatest raw talent ever?
Lawson/Rainey/Schwantz - hard to separate these guys, you could make an argument for any of them. Forced to choose, I'd go with Lawson.
Marc Marquez - This kid is the real deal. I saw him in Austin last year when he won his first GP and was just astounded. I predicted then that he'd win the championship that year, and go on to dominate. Lot of people thought I was nuts.
No, Rossi and Doohan don't make the list.
Of the non-roadracers.
Bubba Shobert/Ricky Graham - Again, guys you can't separate. Their battles in the mid 80s are the greatest racing the world has ever seen. Graham was the best pure dirt tracker I ever saw, it's a shame he couldn't overcome his personal demons.
Ricky Carmichael - For years I said I'd never see a better motocrosser than Bob Hannah. I was wrong.