Custom Painting Question(s)

[Schweisshund]

Almost finished with suzuki covers

Almost finished with suzuki covers

And yes, spray paint cans come out in chunks compared to a touch up gravity feed sprayer. My goodness, I can't get over the difference.

Ok here is what I did. I got the "House of Kolor" 1 oz. bottles and laquer thinner and tested a small portion of the metallic Planet Green paint with the laquer thinner I purchased to see what the reaction was. According to a website, RU-300 series fast or medium drying reducer was recommended for this paint. I couldn't find this reducer anywhere. The Laquer thinner was fine. I was able to pour 1/2 oz. of laquer thinner into each 1 oz. bottle of Planet Green and it mixed very well for this paint sprayer. The covers I painted have 2 coats - a thin coat from early this morning and the 2nd coat (I wet sanded between coats with 1000 grit sandpaper). If I look hard enough, I can see some very minor imperfections. It needs at least 2 more coats. I am really liking this paint so far.

Ok, back to my original post. I may catch a lot of flak for asking this, but I am very curious. Does anyone know what would happen if I got a trickle charger and connected the negative cable to the gas tank and the positive cable to the sprayer? Would the paint in the sprayer be given a + charge and magnetically adhere to the metal on the gas tank?

 

[Nessism]

Ok, back to my original post. I may catch a lot of flak for asking this, but I am very curious. Does anyone know what would happen if I got a trickle charger and connected the negative cable to the gas tank and the positive cable to the sprayer? Would the paint in the sprayer be given a + charge and magnetically adhere to the metal on the gas tank?

Don't waste your time with monkey business like that. Focus on the basics like surface prep and you will be miles ahead.

 

[txironhead]

When you're done painting, I would be very interested in how many of those 1oz bottles you end up using. Are you planning to clearcoat it?

Don't forget pics of the finished product!

 

[Schweisshund]

House of Kolor Planet Green 2nd Coat on side covers with and without flash

House of Kolor Planet Green 2nd Coat on side covers with and without flash

Yes, it needs to be wetsanded and another coat.
I plan to use clear, am looking for chemical resistant Urethane Clear coat.
This House of Kolor paint - Planet Green - according to the specs states it can have Urethane or Laquer clear coats applied over the paint without ruining the metallic appearance. Sorry about the one blurry photo. I will post pics as this job progresses. I have also used 2 bottles of 1 oz. Planet Green so far. I haven't exactly got the hang of this sprayer yet, and a lot of the paint was wasted as a result.

 

[Schweisshund]

Don't waste your time with monkey business like that. Focus on the basics like surface prep and you will be miles ahead.

:-D I will take that advice. I have actually been wondering what would happen if I did that for well over a year now, but haven't had the cajones to do it. I don't want to accidentally make some sort of gaseous flame thrower in the middle of my garage :-D

I am probably sure that would be a bad thing. I am aiming for magnetic cohesion for a smooth finish.

 

[txironhead]

So 2oz of paint mixed with 1oz of thinner does 2 sidecovers.....wonder how much it would take to paint the tank, front fender, sidecovers, tail section and those two little extensions on the tail section.....

This is turning into a very interesting and informative thread!

I'm guessing that the only thing that really has to be gasoline-proof would be the clearcoat. Wonder if a urethane clear would work with Dupli-Color paint? I'd paint it your way, but it would be very slow going considering all I have is a 1 1/2 gallon pancake compressor and an airbrush......

 

[Schweisshund]

Your airbrush would probably be the exact right equipment for these 1 oz. bottles, and you would use considerably less paint than what I have wasted with the sprayer. I was spraying in all different directions and most of the paint got on the masked off area and not on the sidecovers (while I was trying to figure out the fan pattern on the sprayer). The 1 oz. bottles I am using are for airbrushes. They are made to screw into the bottle opening of the airbrush. I am using a shot glass to mix the paint with laquer thinner.:-D

If your airbrush has a fan type pattern, you may want to try it out. Get just one bottle and test it on an aluminum can and see if it works for you.

Just letting you know in advance - a gallon of this stuff is $155.00

My personal recommendation is to use this paint - it ABSOLUTELY rocks!!! Make some calls to either hobby shops or Wal-Marts in your area and see if their toy department carries House of Kolor paints for models. You can use small increments, which has really slowed me down - a good thing - because it makes me pay more attention to the finite details. There is no comparison to any other brand of paint I have used. And I used to be a professional house painter (I have used them all, Duron, Sherwin Williams - which owns Dupli-Color, Behr - which absolutely sucks, Rustoleum - which Sherwin Williams owns, Dutch Boy, and yes, I have used Dupli-Color - its not bad, but House of Kolor is much much better).

In retrospect - I have never used PPG, so I don't know the comparison - I have only "heard" from professional automotive painters that House of Kolor is the best overall paint for custom painting automobiles and motorcycles.
Hope this helps.

 

[txironhead]

I already know that my local Wal-Mart carries the complete line of House of Kolor paint, matter of fact they clearanced out all of the Testors paint not too long ago. I keep an eye on this stuff because I used to customize Hot Wheels.

I need to make some calls and find out what a pint of regular HoK paint would cost from the local paint shop. I still think that the wally world route would be cheaper.

I haven't had a chance to test my airbrush, it's a cheap (but nice and fairly well made) one from Hobby Lobby ($8). I've only used my old one and was disappointed in the spray pattern. Maybe the new one will be better.

I've known for a while that HoK paint was fantastic stuff, I just didn't realize that the stuff in the hobby section was the same paint.

Let me know how much paint you end up using on your project. I still have some mechanical and prep work to do before I paint my GS, hopefully this will let me know the best route to take. I'd still be interested in finding out if a good urethane clear is all it would take to gas-proof whatever I end up spraying.

 

[Nessism]

I'm going to go check out Walmart in my area and look for some of that paint. Base coat paints are typically not calalyzed thus using that stuff should have no negative effect vs. more expensive autobody paint. If you top it with some good catalized automotive clear you will be in good shape. If you are going to go though a bunch of little jars of paint it would be a good idea to dump them all into one larger container to mix them. Sometimes the batches of paint are slightly different from each other.

Good luck.

 

[Schweisshund]

I was able to put two thin coats on the rear cowling and the final coat on both side covers today. I am going to have to scratch glaze and spot prime the rear cowling. Apparently tiny hairline scratches were easily viewed after the metallic paint was applied that were not seen after it was wetsanded. They really stick out and will be working on that later tonight after the "noisy" work is done (neighbors). So far, I have used 4 bottles of 1 oz. House of Kolor Planet Green. I also came to find out I can use additional laquer thinner to stretch out this paint. The paint from yesterday was still tacky, so I added 1 oz. of thinner for 1 and 1/2 bottles of House of Kolor. Apparently it dries faster this way.

I also took off my gas tank and drained the gas - and well ... chunks of rust particles came out :-s Apparently I didn't do a very thorough job the first time, or the gas that has been sitting in it loosened up additional rust. I have ordered a new gas tank last week for the fuel petcock, and it should arrive tmw or friday ( I got it for $20.00). In any case, I plan on painting both of them.

I just applied aircraft stripper to the gas tank and am going to let it sit for a while. It has a ding on the top that I will be repairing with bondo.

 

[Schweisshund]

Custom Graphics

Custom Graphics

I have applied the final thin coat of bondo to the gas tank ding. I used a plastic scraper to take off strips of paint and then a rag and laquer thinner to clean it to the bare metal. The inside of tha tank is VERY rusty. I will have to treat it again :-|.

While I was waiting for things to dry, I began to think about what sort of graphics this bike needs, what color they should be and etc. My personal preference would be to draw some sort of dragon top dead center on the tank, get some type of font I like and write "1983 Suzuki GS550E" on the side covers and just plain "Suzuki" on the sides of the gas tank. I want to reduce the "frills" as to avoid being cheesy, but I am partial to dragons :-D, especially asian bearded dragons.

I have given thought to using frisket paper and a hobby knife to do this, and spraying aluminum (which would be killed by clear) but I heard it mentioned earlier that I can have a sign shop do these decals for me and just clearcoat over the decals.

When I was a kid, and I was putting together models, I never got the decals right. So yes, I will need some pointers on how to apply decals correctly. This is NOT one of my strengths. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Schweisshund]

I want to integrate these into a cool looking decal for the top of the tank

I want to integrate these into a cool looking decal for the top of the tank

Above is Ancient Japanese, Chinese Script, does anyone in theforum know the Ancient Chinese Script for the word "Phoenix"? (probably not, but couldn't hurt to ask )

 

[LeeGS550E]

You're pouring a lot of energy into this painting thing. Its a pretty interesting thread you're working up here. I will say that since you can apparently appreciate doing something right, get the POR-15 kit for your gas tank. Its money well spent. I believe I got it to my door for somewhere around $35 dollars. Its the best coating kit around, hands down. And if your tank is as rusty as I perceive, you need it. Imagine how may times you are going to pull your carbs off if its sloughing that crap off and continuing to rust down the line...much better to pay the money once and be done with it.

The paint looks great. I might even agree with the green color.:-D

 

[Schweisshund]

Thanks again Lee (btw your carbs are becoming community property lol - just sent them to MelodicmetalGod in hopes he can repair his bike with them).
How does POR-15 work? Do I have to order it online or will a cycle shop carry it?

The other tank I ordered should be arriving tmw - If it is rust free (NOS) then I will use that one until I can get POR-15 to treat my current tank. The tank I am getting is not coming with the gas cap key :?

 

[txironhead]

You can have a shop that does graphics for euroracers (look in the back of some "tuner" magazines) do all of your graphics to the specs you want, just specify that you want to clear over them. Keep in mind that graphics on vinyl will be raised after the clear, and you have to be careful not to sand into them when wet sanding the final topcoat. I was wondering if there was a type of "rub-on" transfer that you could paint over, but that would mean a really steady hand with a brush.

However, a decent airbrush artist should be able to do those graphics pretty cheap. There's no color or shading, just bold black art. Ask around at local tattoo shops, sometimes the tattoo artists are excellent airbrush artists as well. One of my tat artists airbrushed Ghost Rider on a t-shirt for me for $20 and it turned out great. Of course, I had just paid him $150 for a tat.....

Those fine scratches are where sandable primer really comes into it's element. It is designed to fill stuff like that. Even the best bodyworker overlooks a scratch here and there. Spray a coat or two of sandable primer, give it a once-over with 600grit and then shoot some sealer primer and you're ready to paint.

I was talking to my brother (the aircraft mechanic) and he agrees that the POR-15 tank kit is the best thing to buy, period. It's what I'm planning to buy for my tank. Kreem is fine as long as you want to redo the job and rebuild your petcock and carbs three years from now. I know from experience, and I followed the instructions to the letter.

You're making me seriously think about painting my bike the way you're doing it. Have you found a clearcoat yet? I don't think that the color I want is available in the HoK hobby paints, but the paint design isn't set in stone, either.

If you want some really cool bearded dragon designs, PM me your email address and I'll send you a few. I have a couple thousand tattoo flash pics and I'm sure there's some nice dragons in there you'd like. I do like the one you've picked, though. Can't help you on the Oriental symbols, I have a hard enough time reading a wiring diagram.....\\/

I'm very tempted to suggest this thread as a sticky.

 

[Schweisshund]

I will definitely check out the tattoo parlors for airbrushing tips. I actually want to learn how to do this because its something I have always wanted to do as a hobby and hopefully a side type of business (If i ever get any good).

I have some leads as to where to look for chemical resistant clear, as well as some ideas - one being to get the code for the clear used by the factory. That is probably trade secret stuff for all I know, but I can attempt to find out.

I am debating, with myself, what the best approach would be to apply graphics. If it were non-metallic, I could just clear coat over it, and I know HOK claims their metallic appearance will not get ruined if you clearcoat over them - however, by experience, dupli-color metallic paints lose their appearance once clearcoated (gold becomes yellow, aluminum becomes gray). I am probably going to experiment with this once I do some research into gas proof clear coats. An older gentleman I was talking with today about this recommended a professional automotive store within my area that I had never heard of.

Here is what I am going to look into over the next few days - I am going to see if a sign shop can punch out the graphics for me on their vinyl paper, thereby making a template I can adhere to the "cured" paint. From experience, Frisket paper will only work for you if you have the finger dexterity of a brain surgeon. Then, I am going to find clear coat and see if it "kills" the metallic finish of aluminum or gold paint. If it does, I will clear coat and wait for the clear to cure, the spray the metallic over the clear and hope for the best.

From experimenting, you really need a clean adherence for your template, the spray can get under creases and ruin your graphic with overspray.

 

[txironhead]

This is probably way more exotic than you're willing to go, but how about silver leaf? Basically, you'd make your template, apply the glue, apply the leaf (not sure if you'd remove the template before or after, never done it myself), and then clear over it. I've seen silver and gold leaf on bikes and you can get really outstanding results. Did you happen to see the Biker Buildoff with Indian Larry's Rat Fink bike? Plus, the silver leaf would leave a really nice texture if you brush rubbed it.

Any auto paint store can sell you a gasoline-resistant clear. The question is whether or not that particular clear (and there's dozens) is compatible with the basecoat. Once you've found a selection of clears that is compatible, then you find out which is the easiest to paint with the equipment you have.

 

[Schweisshund]

ah - got ya on the gas resistant clear:-D. I will check with the HOK store in Roswell (didn't realize I had one about 20 miles away). I will also talk with the auto paint store and bring a sample of this paint (dried) with me.

I would be very interested in gold leafing or silver leafing.

 

[Schweisshund]

Metal Leafing

Metal Leafing

http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/dc_faux_gold_leaf_gilding/article/0,1793,HGTV_3399_1373400,00.html


I think I can understand the concept of silver or gold leafing much better with the above instructional technique. My questions before I would proceed with something like this (and I may have to ask a sign shop) are could the graphics for the silver leaf be punched out for me or will I have to do them by hand? Will the adhesive used interfere with the base coat? Apparently the adhesive dries clear - so I will just test this on a paint sample and see what the reaction is. Michael's sells imitation gold and silver leaf kits for under $10.00

I think it would be cool to get silver leaf with the Kanji style of ancient japanese laser etched on the surface so it can be seen by the reflection - but that may be a bit out of my league.

 

[Schweisshund]

http://www.michaels.com/art/online/projectsheet?pid=25326

Apparently, the above technique works by getting a template, applying adhesive over the template, removing the template, then applying a silver leaf sheet over the adhesive, letting it dry, then brushing off the excess silver leaf - this stuff has to be very delicate and thin for that to work. I am probably gonna give it a shot.

If I can learn to do this - I may just be in business doing it - NOBODY at the suzuki dealership knew anyone that could do this technique for custom painting. I am sure there are some people in my area that do this - but apparently airbrushing graphics is easier.

Practice makes perfect and an expert at anything was once a beginner. I am gonna see if I can get some thin plastic and hobby knife my own template - or just have a sign shop cut my template on vinyl paper and apply the adhesive over the vinyl paper. I am guessing by using this method, no adhesive should interfere with the base coat.