Degreeing Camshafts -- Information Required

[koolaid_kid]

I just installed one of the cams so I could examine what he is talking about. The only way I could see to be both parallel and perpindicular is for that end of the cam to have vanished. Ouch. I am supposing that the camshaft cap configuration is the same for both engines: I have one on the outside of #1, between #1 & #2, between #2 & #3, and on the outside of #4. If the other caps provide enough support, fine, I don't have a problem (much) if he has done hundreds with success. It just sounds alarming to me.

 

[spindle]

I'm going to be putting my 8 valve engine back together this weekend and will take some pic's of how I mount my dial indicator. The real trick is that your rod needs to be long enough

. I bought a cheap set of replacement rods for my indicator and then supper glued a 1 1/2" brad nail to the smallest diameter one. This lets you position DI up above the cam journals at the same angle as the valve. Like I said I'll post some pics.

 

[blowerbike]

the material trip says to remove is from the #4 intake and exhaust (lobes).
a little off the side.
nothing off the shaft itself.
i mis-read originally.
(lobe) not (shaft)
so you have room for the indicator shaft(probe) to reach the shim/bucket unobstructed.

 

[koolaid_kid]

"Cut your cam end off."
The title of trippivot's post.

I've asked his to join in, hopefully he will clarify for me. This is the last hurdle for me to jump in what has been a long, arduous road.

 

[GregT]

Trippivot is saying cut the surplus shaft off flush with the side of the lobe - either #1 or #4. No problem doing that if your 650 bearing configuration is the same as the 750/1000 eight valve motors.
You say you have a bearing cap on this portion of the cam - I've not been inside a 650, a pic would be useful to confirm the different setup.
It is possible with an extension on the dial gauge to go down beside the lobe onto the side of the bucket without chopping the cam. For your purposes it's not necessary to be absolutely in line with the valve centerline - you're only interested in lobe centers so you only need measure the first .040 or .050in of lift in each direction.
So long as your figures are repeatable and consistent you will be ok.

Greg T

 

[koolaid_kid]

The GPz750 is actually a KZ750 engine that Kawasaki breathed on; hotter cams, different carbs and exhaust, ignition curve differences, etc. But at its core, it is an 8 valve KZ750. The end of each camshaft has the bearing cap on each end.
I'll have to get an 8-valve GS manual from BassCliff's site and look at the differences, IDK, I've never seen inside one.
Perhaps I am missing the forest b/c all the trees are in the way.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I just looked at BassCliff's valve adjustment article. They are different. The GS has the end lobes just dangling with a very wide bearing cap between #1 & #2. That is quite different, mine have a cap outside the lobe. Guess I'll keep on looking; they are quite different.
Thanks everyone, my apologies for chasing an invisible goose.

 

[trippivot]

hi guys yep as crude as it seems I cut the end off the cams after the lobe on the #4 side I have been looking for any pictures I have but it seems as if I have not photoed that detail. your head may be different but the gs 1000 and kz 1000 it is common thing to do.

making these tools and solving problems is not exactly easy

as far as the GPZ I 'd have to re-familiarize my self with it again. I ahve had morew than 1 model of the gpz line 82 R 750 84 uni track sweetie blah blah

I think there is a groove in the gpz 750 KWaK cam for the telescope part of the dial indicator the fit in (by the lobe to reach the bucket)

 

[koolaid_kid]

Thanks for the response. The KZ750 and GPz750 were the same basic engine thru 85. The 82 GPz was just a dressed up KZ, dual shocks and all. For 83 they got a real sport bike makeover, monoshock, clipons, integrated fairing, etc. I like it a lot better than my 81 KZ, even though they have the same roots. Feels like I am sitting in the bike, rather than on it.
I looked at BassCliff's 850, and the end cam lobes just hang out there, unsupported. And odd design IMHO, but clearly it works. But all my support caps are much narrower than the 850s, so I really want to retain that outer cap.
I'll find a path, I am sure.
Again, thanks for chiming in, I appreciate it.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

I've not been inside a 650, a pic would be useful to confirm the different setup.
Greg T

Greg the 650 setup for the cams is exactly the same as the other 8V motors. Two cam caps on each cam between #1 and #2 and another between #3 and #4. No cam caps on the ends of the shaft.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I saw a pic of a big Kaw (1000, I think). The setup was the same as the GSes, the end lobe just dangles out there. Not sure why my bike is different. Hmmm.

 

[spindle]

Sorry I haven't posted pics of how I set up my indicator. Woke up with the stomach bug Saturday morning and have just started eating solid food today.
I'm really missing riding my bike and will have back together soon, with pics.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Sorry I haven't posted pics of how I set up my indicator. Woke up with the stomach bug Saturday morning and have just started eating solid food today.
I'm really missing riding my bike and will have back together soon, with pics.

SPINDLE, how are those pictures coming along.

Thanks.

 

[spindle]

Sorry life got in the way. I'll get something for you in the next day or two.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Sorry life got in the way. I'll get something for you in the next day or two.

OK Thanx.

Look forward to it.

 

[trippivot]

GO TO kzrider.com there might be more info there.

 

[srsupertrap]

A dial indicator extension works on the GS1000 2V and lets one rotate the enginine over & over without the cam contacting the dial indicator and screwing up the measurements. Since the 2V valve shims are all 29.5 mm it should work just fine on the GS650 etc. I mount the magnetic base on top of the cam cap with the V edge of the base wedged in front of the cap bolts.

No one responded to this thread but it appears others know the same info.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=130291&highlight=cams

 

[Guest]

A dial indicator extension works on the GS1000 2V and lets one rotate the enginine over & over without the cam contacting the dial indicator and screwing up the measurements. Since the 2V valve shims are all 29.5 mm it should work just fine on the GS650 etc. I mount the magnetic base on top of the cam cap with the V edge of the base wedged in front of the cap bolts.

No one responded to this thread but it appears others know the same info.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=130291&highlight=cams

Good link! I like making my own tools too.

 

[srsupertrap]

Andrews Cams Installation Instructions & How to Degree Cams Articles

Andrews Cams Installation Instructions & How to Degree Cams Articles

Suzuki GS 750, 850 & 1000 Cam Installation Instructions
Note: If you have Andrews Cams and you read this whole thing they recommed visually setting 1/16" below the
cylinder head surface to achieve 108 timing. Last time I was adjusting these cams in 2008 I tried this
visual method first and verified it was +/- 2 degrees. Pretty freakin close.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?11z99jjjtby

How to Degree Cams circa 1982

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?aj0emhylwj9

Finding TDC (Positive Stop method)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?b9j9lzzlvnu

Note: If you never used mediafire, you have to "Click Here to download Files"

 

[srsupertrap]

Good link! I like making my own tools too.

Especially when they are cheap