Designing my own Rectifier/Regulator

[hungryman]

Switches... not my choice here, I want a "fine tune" of the charge rate. Also, I wanted no moving parts.
I generally design the old fashioned route: sleepless night looking at the ceiling with the idea running around in my head, basic schematic on a paper napkin during breakfast, then I do the rough math during lunch, then I breadboard the thing or parts thereof at about 2:00am when all are asleep, test in the lab and tweak component values, all too often letting out the magic blue smoke while yelling a few choice words of wisedom and starting all over again. I did at one time have a couple of simulation programmes Spice and Electronics Workbench, I like them and still use them sometimes.
BTW the case temperatures are acceptable so far... 40*C over ambient (my ambient is now 29*C) that gives me an operating temp of 89*C Max allowable temp is 150*C ...I think we can get away with the case as is (without fins). Mounting to the frame of the bike will dissipate some addiitional heat too.

I use Saber for simulation. It's a bit pricey, but does the trick. I haven't found any of the Spice simulators that do a good job with power electronics - especially non-linear magnetics and systems with digital closed loop feedback.

Arcs, sparks, and blue flame!

 

[cberkeley]

Here's the R/R all Packaged:
View attachment 609
The screw (lower left) seals the adjustment port. LED flashes when sense wire is energised by turning-on ignition.

 

[Planecrazy]

The screw is quick and simple, BUT it will let moisture seep in over time, no matter how tight you make it. I would find a rubber or plastic cap that is designed specifically for this sort of application and use that instead on the final product.

... of course, you could simply get a rubber washer to use with the screw, but the long term truth is that both the screw and/or the washer will eventually fall out and disappear, whereas a task-specific cap should be designed to stay with the housing, even when you have it opened...

Regards,

 

[cberkeley]

The screw is quick and simple, BUT it will let moisture seep in over time, no matter how tight you make it. I would find a rubber or plastic cap that is designed specifically for this sort of application and use that instead on the final product.

... of course, you could simply get a rubber washer to use with the screw, but the long term truth is that both the screw and/or the washer will eventually fall out and disappear, whereas a task-specific cap should be designed to stay with the housing, even when you have it opened...

Regards,

Good Point!......... duly noted.
Thanks, Cletus

 

[JHawkins]

Good Idea....... Although there's room in the case, I was thinking in-line up under the seat somewhere. My problem with a fuseholder through the case is that it compromises the water-tight enclosure some, unless we go with one of those Marine types.

a marine type fuse or push-to-reset breaker could be ok, or maybe put an auto-reset breaker inside the case.

 

[JHawkins]

The two bridges connected "just-right" more than do the job, no need for a third. About the schematic........ Not sure where I want to go with this (this is the problem we tech-types face all the time):
a. Produce and offer it as an off-the-shelf aftermarket upgrade device.
b. Produce and ship it by order, one-off, as a custom upgrade device.
c. Sell plans for constructing it.
d. Sell the design outright to someone interested in "running with the ball".
In any event, this is not a get rich scheme. But, a lot of work went into the R/D on this gizmo and I would like to get something out of it above a "Super Custom Rectifier/Regulator" on my bike. At the same time, I want others to benefit from an improved R/R also.
Ideas folks, ideas.......... I'm only an engineer not good as a businessman.

I would think the shipping costs involved in getting them off the island on a piece by piece basis would be nasty.

It might be easier to sell the plans, but then people will "Share".

You could make a bunch up and maybe have a company like UPS store them and ship them out of a US warehouse for you, the only problem with that is you would want to make a bunch of them probably and that could get costly for you up front.

 

[DimitriT]

I would like to ask that you consider a kit. Maybe you could buy the components in bulk and sell the pre-assembled units along with some instructions. You don't need to give schemtics. It should be doable
by someone with soldering experience and a multi-meter. You can
make something on the price of the kits above what you payed for the
components.

 

[Guest]

Looking good!

Tom

 

[mixongw]

When my project manager asked me ablut why a circuit was designed the way it was, if I had replied with "The two bridges connected "just-right" more than do the job, no need for a third. I know what HE would have said. Could you please define "just right"

 

[Boondocks]

When my project manager asked me ablut why a circuit was designed the way it was, if I had replied with "The two bridges connected "just-right" more than do the job, no need for a third. I know what HE would have said. Could you please define "just right"

I think that he already tried to explain it with

...There are 3-phase diode packs available but the onesI've found are very expensive. So I plan on using two (actually connected one and one half) 4-diode Wheatstone bridges (way cheaper)....

It takes 6 diodes to configure three-phase full wave rectification. Cletus is using two units, each with 4 diodes configured like the resistors in a Wheatstone Bridge. So, by using all 4 diodes in one unit and 2 diodes in the other (hence "actually connected one and one half"), he achieved three-phase full wave rectification with the two diode units.

 

[GARYEIN1]

Reg/rec

Reg/rec

My 85 Gs550l Has Been Burning Them Up
Finally Called Ricks Electric Were I've Been Getting Them From
They Sent Me A Heavy Duty Unit With Double Wires
I Themn Relocated It To The Front Of The Bike Mounted To The Crash Bars Which Are Mounted To The Frame
No Problems Since

I Would Like To See Your Final Design Though
How Much Do You Think It Would Cost To Make Each Unit

 

[bmac]

I've been reading about your project that you have been working on and
by all means you are very intelligent,but...is this product going to be better or just as good as a product that is OEM or after market.Also will you be able to incorporate this item to newer bikes or any type of application that has an R/R application.


Just Curious, new to the site and learning alot,Thanks

bmac

 

[Planecrazy]

I've been reading about your project that you have been working on and
by all means you are very intelligent,but...is this product going to be better or just as good as a product that is OEM or after market.Also will you be able to incorporate this item to newer bikes or any type of application that has an R/R application.


Just Curious, new to the site and learning alot,Thanks

bmac

bmac,

Welcome to the site!! If you haven't already done the site tour you're going to find that the R/R system on our bikes has a history of being problematic (although I've been one of the lucky ones whose never had a problem). If you've followed this thread from the beginning you should already know that Cletus' project will far exceed an OEM unit in quality and reliability.

As for whether it is better than aftermarket, that will of course depend on what an aftermarket manufacturer does with the design and components. If they are merely duplicating an OEM design, then Cletus' product will be much better, but if they try to improve on the problematic OEM design then their product may be better, may be worse, may be just the same.

What I DO glean from his efforts, though, are that what he winds up with is not only going to be significantly better than stock, but also more flexible in its setup, since he's planning to allow for adjustable output voltage (which OEM and known aftermarket products don't). That'll be especially nice for those of us who have switched to glass mat batteries, which apparently benefit from a higher charging voltage than conventional batteries.

Hope this is helpful, and enjoy the site! By the way, I see you live in Lisle ... we have a pretty good Chicagoland GS contingent, so if you PM me your email address I'll get you on our local email list so you can join us for regional rides and "stay in the loop."

Regards,

 

[Nerobro]

well it's not a product yet.

Skreemer and I are in Aurora. what do you ride?

 

[cberkeley]

I think that he already tried to explain it with

It takes 6 diodes to configure three-phase full wave rectification. Cletus is using two units, each with 4 diodes configured like the resistors in a Wheatstone Bridge. So, by using all 4 diodes in one unit and 2 diodes in the other (hence "actually connected one and one half"), he achieved three-phase full wave rectification with the two diode units.

Go to the top of the class!:-D
Yup, that's precisely how it's done. Actually it's a lot cheaper to do it that way than to buy a single 3-ph rectifier.

 

[Nerobro]

Now that's the concerning bit. How much per are your SCR's running? And your rectifiers?

And... I think I need to build something like this. And do some testing to see just by how much you're overspecing the parts. The way I ride will burn out components faster than anything. I'd like to try.

 

[cberkeley]

Now that's the concerning bit. How much per are your SCR's running? And your rectifiers?

And... I think I need to build something like this. And do some testing to see just by how much you're overspecing the parts. The way I ride will burn out components faster than anything. I'd like to try.

SCR's are running US$22.00 Retail.
Bridges are spec'd at 1000V 40A and the SCRs are 200V 35A Running Tempertaure is <1/2 any component's max rating even with my ambient temp in the 90's (I'm on a Tropical Island).

 

[Nerobro]

Hmm.. And what did that rectifier cost you? ARe you on AIM? Or yahoo instant messenger?

 

[cberkeley]

Good rectifiers are about US$6.00 a pop.
I'm a Yahoo type, cberkeley@yahoo.com

 

[bmac]

Looks great, I like the screw to unit comparison, very thorough. Have you bike tested this unit.



bmac