Engine Paint - PJ1, VHT, or POR 15?

[Guest]

That pic worked psyguy.

And yeah, going by how my engine looks, I don't think the paint was intended to last for years and years, which is why I'm stripping it all off and painting it

 

[Agemax]

i've researched this topic before but never got a satisfying conclusive info for a paint that would not yellow/brown and would be durable enough to take on the daily road grime and regular washing.

on the engine covers i used por15 clear (glisten pc and all the prep products) and while the clear holds on well the alu covers have changed apperance in the same way they would have if left exposed to elements (they appear coroded underneath the clear...).

what i figured would last the longest on the engine would be to have the cases, jugs, head, bead blasted and left at that. when washing you can use a "metal brightener" to restore the shine. If done properly bead blasting "closes" the alu surface nicely so the dirt doesn't stick that well in the first place.

i *think* the problem with all the paints mentioned in this thread (correct me if i'm wrong!) is that neither is made for application straight on ALUMINIUM and some dont mention alu as a suitable base at all. and if you use a primer, well, there's no primer that can take the heat that the air cooled engine produces, at least at the spark-plugs area, so that's not that much help.
por15 metal prep and a brush on etch-primer liquid (called AP120 or something) is i would think the best priming method as it is not like a paint but like a solvent/cleaner that evaporates upon application so cant really burn from the engine heat (sorry for the lack of proper technical terms... )

sharpy's engine looks VERY sharp but i understand (from memory) that he lives in a dry climate and that that engine doesn't get much (if any?) wet road grime that bakes on the engine nor does he need to use pressure-washer or brush needed to take such grime off. as i said... if memory serves me right when i talked to sharpy about it

i had my engine vapour blasted, it includes a rust inhibitor which bonds to the aluminium cases. no flake, no discolour, no oxidisation in 5 years!
just a good wash in hot soapy water every couple of weeks and it looks perfect again.
best finish i have ever had done on an engine

 

[Guest]

lol, agemax, you know you cant do that... tease us with a story and NO pic!

pretty please?

 

[Agemax]

lol, agemax, you know you cant do that... tease us with a story and NO pic!

pretty please?

ok, lol. best close up pic of the engine i could find at the moment........

 

[Steptoe]

vapour blasting

vapour blasting

Hi,
My first post, having not yet taken delivery of a recently purchased GS1000.

Had a GS 30 years ago and have been into mostly british recently, but getting back to a REAL bike.

Vapour blasting is great. Gives a really nice even, not overly bright finish. I have used it on my everyday (rain and all) bike (brand will remain nameless) and it has worked perfectly. As already stated, wash and forget. I have polished covers and they're a right PITA. Dont last a week without oxidising, although the Meguiars I've been using lately seems to help. (Seems like this post has also answered my questions there too). The vapour blasted cases have not discoloured at all. The guy to do the vapour blasting in Brisbane is called Specialised Blasting Services I think and has apparently moved from Capalaba down to Mt Tambourine or somewhere. He used to advertise in Just Bikes. Great finish for wheel hubs and all ali bits you dont want to polish because it doesnt oxidise unlike raw aluminium finished in may other ways.

Vapour blasting (as opposed to some other forms of media blasting) closes the pores and no dirt (and solvents apparently) penetrate. I have been thinking about this issue of case finishing even before I get my GS in the shed. I figured I would vapour blast the barrels and head and use paint on the cases. That was my best recollection of what my GS was like when I had it, but seems like all over paint was correct (clearly too much intake of jungle juice in those days).

I have used a H-D product - high temp silver to good effect. Bought it because it is a very good match (almost perfect) for early Kawasaki silver case paint and I had some engine covers to do. Must be painted directly onto bare metal! ie, no promer problems. Nice bright finish. Cant find the maximum temp for it though. It's pricey, $34 AUD a can and I got it from Morgan and Wacker in Brisbane (near the Brekky Ck Hotel) on special order. They only keep 1 or 2 cans. I looked around at all the alternatives and didnt find anything I was happy with OR that would be fuel resistant.

Great post because this case paint issue has been an ongoing one for me over the last 3-4 years.

Sorry just remebered the original post was about black paint, but this might be useful anyway.


Cheers

 

[Guest]

Thanks Agemax and Steptoe, that's good info.

While I was hoping for black head and cases and polished covers, all this talk about hassle free vapour blasting is making me think again, especially after seeing the pic from Agemax.

I was wondering if this was a US only thing, but good to see there's someone near Brissie who can do it too, might have a think and maybe give them a call to see what it's worth.

It would certainly solve some issues for me because I'm having trouble finding some way to bake the cases and head after the high heat paint is on. Almost got a $20 oven off eBay that plugs into a standard power point for the garage, but just missed it.

 

[Guest]

Here's the place, and in Jimboomba now. Interestingly enough he says it's not vapour blasting because that leaves bits of glass embedded in the alloy. Lots of good looking pic's here though and apparently not even oil will stain the cases afterwards...

http://www.freewebs.com/blasting/

 

[TheCafeKid]

I painted a cylinder head with VHT Aluminum High Temperature paint last night. It sprays out nicely and looks good, although the color of the stock engine is more silver and brighter.

I have used quite a few of the different "over the counter" brands of high temp paint... MY fav?? Duplicolour.. VHT is nice, but their colours arent exactly what they say they should be IMO...aluminum doesnt look aluminium, it looks silver. Duplicolour offers a FEW aluminums...raw, clean, etc. Their black is what I used on my 1100ES motor, STILL looks like new.. The trick is, polish your covers with car wax Keeps the grime from sticking, and makes them look like brand new...

The ONLY problem i have found with most of the rattle bomb high temps, is that most are ceramic based (which is why they can handle the heat) and while quite durrable and gas resistant, they are BRITTLE...if you drop a wrench on it when its a cold motor, it will chip like a son of a gun.. so keep that in mind... I will see if i can dig up a good pic of my ES motor after its paint job..

 

[Steptoe]

vapour blasting

vapour blasting

Hi Pete,

In fact you are probabaly right about the term 'vapour blasting' (my bad) the guy in question uses a Vacqua machine as far as I know and I'm guessing I used the wrong term. The media (I thought it was glass beads but could be wrong) is blasted in AIUI a stream of water - very gentle. Anyway whatever he does works well. All the the go in Brit Bike circles for the main engine cases etc. I have dribbly amals and the evaporated fuel that ennds up on the cases just disappears whenever I wash the bike. For stubborn stuff like a bit of burnt on oil (no my pommy bike would not leak oil!!) a bit of a quick spray with degreaser does the trick.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

I was wondering if this was a US only thing, but good to see there's someone near Brissie who can do it too, might have a think and maybe give them a call to see what it's worth.

mate, if i was able to find someone in NZ who does it surely it's available in Oz, eh? :-s

lol

from what i've read (and this is getting really nitty gritty) varoius media can be used for blasting and the trick is to use the right one for the aplication.
apparently there is a difference in the alu alloy used on the brit vs italian vs german vs jap bikes (at least there was 30 yrs ago) so the same process can give different results.
other than the type of media used there can be a variation in the water/air pressure used and also the quantity of the media.
i think best go to someone who's done it before and done it right on a bike similar to yours (i.e. jap bike from the era).

it cost something like nz$300 for the whole engine minus the side covers. the engine was REALLY dirty.

 

[Guest]

Haha yes true Psyguy, missed your location there... ooops.

So around $300 NZ, should make it $50 AUS right? Just kiddin...

What you say sounds right going by what he has on the website too.

And Steptoe, that sounds like what I need.

The whole point of this for me was I wanted it to look good but not have to spend all weekend polishing and cleaning as that takes away from riding time (of which I will have very little when it's back together).

So the plan was to paint and just polish the bits that were easy to get to and wouldn't take long, but this blasting could solve all those problems for me...

I will have to call the man next week...

 

[Einstein]

I sent an email to a company called RS Motorbike Paint Ltd... they are probably the largest bike paint manufacturer in Europe, and best of all, they have a depot 10 minutes away from me..

Here is the reply I got..

Hi John,

Thanks for your enquiry.

We have a satin silver grey engine colour listed on a 1981 GT 250.....do you think this could be the same as on yours? If so, we can supply this colour, no problem at all. You can either call us quoting order number 19770 or of course you can order online at www.rsbikepaint.com

If not, if you are able to supply us with a small sample of the paint (eg flake from the damaged area), we can match from that ...it just takes a couple of days.


Kind regards

Heidi
RS Bike Paint Ltd





I have asked a few more questions regarding the paint, and will keep you guys updated.. I may even try to get a colour match done if I can find any paint left on anything !


John

 

[Agemax]

good research mate. surprising what you can find if you simply ask!

 

[hampshirehog]

We have a satin silver grey engine colour listed on a 1981 GT 250.....do you think this could be the same as on yours?

The 81 GT250 will be an X7. The paint on those motors was more grey than silver - way different to the silver on a GS. All the other GT250s weren't painted, just lacquer over the alloy.

 

[Einstein]

Yeah, I gathered it was an X7...

My reply to them..

Hi Heidi,

Many thanks for the reply..

This paint you mention, is it suitable for air cooled engines, (barrels, cylinder head etc)
or is it only for the engine side covers..

I have looked at an '81 GT250 X7 and it looks a little dark, then again, some look right, so it could be the photos..

So long as the paint will look right, and stand up to the heat, that's all I want..

I will try and bring something to match to as well..

John


I like the fact that they can match the colour... and so long as it can stand up to the heat, it could be a good source for engine paint.

John

 

[JasonEllis]

I used dupli-colors ceramic paint on mine. Check out the pics on my profile. I've bult alot of hotrod cars and I've had great results on all my engines. I build import motors mostly. The inportant thing is to make sure its clean before you paint. Use a GOOD paint stripper. Then what I do is clean it with JBI dull buster it pulls all contaminates out of the metal. Paint sticks better when its REAL clean.

 

[Einstein]

Well, it turns out the local depot is closed, and it's now mail order only..

no big deal, but after a few more emails, I get one from a different guy who says the paint is only suitable for the crank and gearbox casings.. and the only high temp paint they do is black or silver.... probably the matt finish ceramic stuff that isn't what I want.

Back to the drawing board


John

 

[Guest]

So... I haven't called the guy about the blasting. I decided I already own the Black Velvet high heat paint, so I should use it.

End result is I actually got the first coat on both crank case halves, sump cover, valve cover, and breather cover.

I haven't done anything more with the cylinders beyond letting them soak in marine clean for a while and the head is completely untouched at the moment until I can make up a valve removal tool, so both of these aren't ready to paint.

I looked at the head and cylinders very closely today and decided that there's no way I'm going to get a wire brush in between all the fins and I'm certainly not going to be able to get a paint brush in there, so I think I will have to call the blasting guy anyway for those two bits, but that might actually look good.

Anyway, I suspect my prep for the painting is still not quite 100%, so after the second coat is on I may still find some peeling when I bake, but I'll just have to wait and see.

Here's the results:

 

[Guest]

So I called the man this avo... he reckons $130 - $140 to blast the cylinders and head, and that's his estimated max price.

He said he hasn't done my model before, but that price is based on other air cooled parallel twins and is on the assumption that I clean all the grease and grime off first including any gasket remnants.

That's right in a price range I should be able to afford, so once I get the head dismantled I plan on taking it for a long drive.

Oh, and he also knew what I was talking about when I said I had soaked the cylinders in marine clean too and said that should prepare them nicely as far as getting all that grime off.

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Hi Pete, are you going to have any before and after pics as a reference? And for us as well, cheers.