Front end .. Check my list and a question

[Boriqua]

Whew .. Alright there was a lot of information about the forks here and I think I got it but was hoping someone who has done it can check my list and make sure I don't forget anything from my shopping list. I plan on leaving the anti dive active and not doing a complete disassembly of the forks. I want to replace springs, seals and fresh oil.

First a question
I understand that after the spring swap and proper oil I will not need my air caps. I currently dont have any air in the system. What year bike will have the same thread but have a solid cap? I just want to replace the air cap with a plain nut style and lose the air if possible unless someone can tell me adding air is awesome.

So here is what I have

Sonic springs of the right weight
OEM fork seals
OEM Circlips
New cap gasket if I cant find a replacement cap
New oem orings for the antidive unit which looks like it acts as a gasket or crush washer
10w fork oil
new cotter pin for axle

Dust covers?

anything else?

Alex

 

[dorkburger]

Sounds pretty good, but you may need to buy of make a tool if your forks are similar to mine. Take note that the seals are directional. This was not noted in the factory or Haynes manual.

My fork thread from a while back.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...3-First-foray-into-fork-rebuilding&highlight=

 

[Boriqua]

I gather that the spring will not just fall out when I turn the tube over? Sigh .. I am missing my old triumph again. I was hoping to not remove the damper rod so not need to remove the allen head bolt on the bottom of the lower fork tube. Guess its time to hit youtube and see what I am getting into.

I checked out the progressive spring install pdf on the Basscliff page and he was able to do the swap without touching that lower bolt. I was feeling good about life.

I checked out your thread .. good info on the directional seals!!

 

[dorkburger]

The springs should just fall out as you noted. The seals are what require further disassembly.

Seal direction was an annoying lesson...... but well taught so I wont forget

 

[Guest]

OEM Circlips
New cap gasket if I cant find a replacement cap
New oem orings for the antidive unit which looks like it acts as a gasket or crush washer

I'm not sure you will need new circlips or fork caps (unless your caps are mangled). You shouldn't have to do anything to the anti-dive units unless they are leaking, either.

I gather that the spring will not just fall out when I turn the tube over? Sigh .. I am missing my old triumph again. I was hoping to not remove the damper rod so not need to remove the allen head bolt on the bottom of the lower fork tube. Guess its time to hit youtube and see what I am getting into.

The spring should fall out with the cap removed. The upper tube will not pull out of the lower unless you pull the damper rod out.I'm not sure how you plan to replace the seals with the inner tube still in place, getting a grip on them can be a b!tch.


Mark

 

[BigD_83]

The springs should just fall out as you noted. The seals are what require further disassembly.

Seal direction was an annoying lesson...... but well taught so I wont forget

I generally find that trying to get seals to go in any direction other than what they choose for themselves a rather fruitless endeavour...

I have not run into that issue myself, but now that I know, I'll pay close attention the next time I have to do the forks.

 

[Boriqua]

Ah now I see. I didnt see the relationship with the damper rod. Thanks mark!

I was going to try and replace the seals with the uppers in place using the method described here

http://gsarchive.bwringer.com/cbsaunders/gs/Fork_Seal_Replacement_GS850GT.pdf

I mean .. it worked for him?? LOL famous last words.

Ultimately if that fails I have an impact driver, a heavy rubber mallet and a torch if need be.

Guess I will have to research the use of the special tool just in case it comes to that.

I figured if I have to remove the antidive from the fork and those two washers are crush washers or rubber, I cant tell from the fiche, then it would just be a good idea to spend the money to replace them when I reassemble .. unless of course I am over thinking it. I have one dust cover cracked so I will just replace the one.

Getting oem parts is up to two weeks and I just dont want to be half way through and need something. While the rest of the country is winterizing and putting their bikes away this is a nice season for some of us in AZ to ride. Most of us dont ride in the summer for fun so it would suck waiting around with a bike out of operation while I wait for something.

I hadnt owned a car in some 20 years. I came out to AZ with just my motorcycle. First summer I was on the highway with the heat coming off the asphalt, 112 degrees out with no shade and a hot engine between my legs .. I bought a damn car!

 

[dorkburger]

Sorry for the confusion about the seal removal. The 1150 is an occasional odd outlier among GSs.

My 1150 has goofy airlines that connect to the fork tubes for pressure equalization that I didn't want to deal with removing, nor did I want to remove the tubes. Being that I was doing a full rebuild anyway I removed the bottom parts and left the top tubes in place.

 

[RichDesmond]

Ah now I see. I didnt see the relationship with the damper rod. Thanks mark!

I was going to try and replace the seals with the uppers in place using the method described here

http://gsarchive.bwringer.com/cbsaunders/gs/Fork_Seal_Replacement_GS850GT.pdf

I mean .. it worked for him?? LOL famous last words.

Ultimately if that fails I have an impact driver, a heavy rubber mallet and a torch if need be.

Guess I will have to research the use of the special tool just in case it comes to that.

IMO, it's really easier and faster, 99% of the time, to just remove and replace the seals the normal way. It's "the normal way" for a reason.

I figured if I have to remove the antidive from the fork and those two washers are crush washers or rubber, I cant tell from the fiche, then it would just be a good idea to spend the money to replace them when I reassemble .. unless of course I am over thinking it. I have one dust cover cracked so I will just replace the one.

Always a good idea to replace crush washers and any rubber parts. The goes double for rubber parts exposed to the elements...like dust covers. If one is cracking, how far behind can the other be?

 

[Boriqua]

probably a crazy stupid question but

I have no oil showing on my forks. I can only assume one of two things. The previous owner had the seals replaced..or .. there is no oil in the forks?

But the antidive works as advertised and it would need oil and while i never tried .. I dont think I would be able to ride it with just springs and no oil. Its mushy as hell but does operate ...

Would the front end work if it was devoid of oil?

 

[RichDesmond]

Really bad idea for a number of reasons. The seals and bushings in there need lubrication, and riding with no damping is dangerous.

 

[Boriqua]

Really bad idea for a number of reasons. The seals and bushings in there need lubrication, and riding with no damping is dangerous.

Oh no Rich .. Im so sorry if I wasnt clear. I would never suggest doing without. What I am trying to determine is if I do truly need to order seals since I dont see any oil on the forks. Not seeing oil could only mean its sealed already or there is no oil but since I have never ridden a bike with no oil in the forks I dont know what it would feel like in order to determine if that is what I have going on. I would think it would be un ridable but .. I just dont know.

Obviously if I can do with out the expense, time and possible frustration and not have to do the seals that would be great. Problem is the only way for me to determine if there is oil in there is to pull the little drain screw but then I have no way of accurately filling it back up.

Like i said .. the antidive works which depends on oil and the dampening seems fine except for the fact that the front is just way to soft.

 

[sharpy]

sounds to me you need to download a manual from basscliffs website. And a hammer and impact driver is 50/50 chance of undoing ure forks unless you make a tool to hold the dampener rod. With a 18MM head on a bolt to fit in dampener rod

 

[RichDesmond]

Oh no Rich .. Im so sorry if I wasnt clear. I would never suggest doing without. What I am trying to determine is if I do truly need to order seals since I dont see any oil on the forks. Not seeing oil could only mean its sealed already or there is no oil but since I have never ridden a bike with no oil in the forks I dont know what it would feel like in order to determine if that is what I have going on. I would think it would be un ridable but .. I just dont know.

Obviously if I can do with out the expense, time and possible frustration and not have to do the seals that would be great. Problem is the only way for me to determine if there is oil in there is to pull the little drain screw but then I have no way of accurately filling it back up.

Like i said .. the antidive works which depends on oil and the dampening seems fine except for the fact that the front is just way to soft.

My fault, I read "no oil showing ON my forks" as "no oil showing IN my forks". :redface: Sorry 'bout that.

You need to change fork oil regardless, so just drain the oil into a measuring cup so that you have a rough idea of how much is in there. If there's something close to the stock amount then you know the seals are good. Then order springs and oil (or buy the oil locally, might be cheaper) pull the forks off the bike and swap springs and put oil in.

Don't over think this, it's a pretty simple job.

 

[Boriqua]

Well as a test I decided to add some air to the forks. I havent touched the forks and I know the bike had sat for 2 years. One side went fine but the valve on the other cracked in half when I went to fill. Drag!

There is shop that works on vintage Japanese motorcycles
http://www.eastsideperformancemotorcycles.com/home.html

so I figured I would give it a go and went down. He had some amazing bikes inside but I didnt hold out much hope of him having the part on hand but I told him I just wanted to check out the shop but I did have a specific mission and dropped the broken parts in his hand and he goes .. gimme a second ... comes back and tada .. new air valve. 5 bucks

So .. I bought a helmet. I needed a new one anyway. There will be a vintage bike show at his place this coming saturday so I will be there.

but back to suspension. I checked length of space on the forks with the front wheel hanging and it was about 18.5cm. Then with me on it it was down to a scooch under 10cm. Hmmmmmm Thinking I didnt want to use up more than 1/3 the travel I was hoping to see about 12cm. Added 7psi to each fork leg and measured again and now we were a scooch over 11.5. Awesome ... Changed the entire dynamic of riding the bike. Yup just that little bit of extra preload. Turning into corners was so much nicer and the entire ride was just better.

Checked the next morning and it had held its air. I am going to pass on seals now. If I have to take the forks off again to do seals later fine but if I dont have to add $35 to the bill and not have to deal with it then I will pass. So Springs, dust boots and new gaskets ordered. I am Soooooooo pumped!! I can not wait to get it on the bike.

Shop manual says 10w oil so I guess I will pick up some of that at my new favorite shop.

 

[gearhead13]

I was thinking if you are going with heavier springs maybe use a bit heavier oil like 15w.

 

[Dragon Breath]

Having no oil showing on the forks tells you one of two things:
1. the seals are doing a fine job
2. there is no more oil inside the forks to leak out.

You have already shown that your current springs are inadequate, why not change them out to some proper springs? You can change the oil at the same time, that way you KNOW what is in there and how much.

 

[Boriqua]

15w? I am about 200 lbs and I would say that half of my riding is with my wife on the back. I was wondering if I should go a little heavier on the oil.
alex

 

[gearhead13]

15w? I am about 200 lbs and I would say that half of my riding is with my wife on the back. I was wondering if I should go a little heavier on the oil.
alex

heavier springs, then heavier oil. Are you going to upgrade the rear shocks too?

 

[Boriqua]

heavier springs, then heavier oil. Are you going to upgrade the rear shocks too?

To tell true ... The rear shocks work pretty well. I am more than happy with them so far. I may swap them out for hagons but dont feel a pressing need to change out the rear.
The front however needs help!
Alex