GR650 Tempter starter problem

[Barneycanoe]

I think the starter clutch or pinion or whatever it is called is gone. Battery and Starter are good
I know I have to drain the oil and pull off the left sidecover to access the pinion.

Does anyone have any experience here, i.e. what I should be looking for? I am assuming I will have to find a new one.

Dave

 

[tom203]

Is it making unpleasant noises? not spinning the motor? You might able to carefully lean it against something to tilt it to right side and not drain oil.

 

[bwringer]

We'll need more information about what is wrong, but it is common in the GS models for the bolts holding the starter gear to the rotor to elongate a bit, then the thing gets loose and starts making horrible noises. If the problem goes on, or if the engine backfires at the wrong time, the bolts can shear and really wreck a lot of stuff.

Just put the bike on the centerstand and put a cake pan underneath to remove the stator cover -- you'll lose a few ounces of oil, that's all. Be careful and gentle with the wires, and you can usually suspend the stator cover from a bungee cord run over the seat.

You'll be able to check things from here, but in order to get to the starter gear if it's loose, you'll need to be able to remove the rotor. Not sure what kind of puller you'd need for this bike.


The starter clutch fiche shows the relevant bits. The bolts I mentioned are #4 -- these are Class 12 socket head screws. Also, make sure the washers, #9, are in place. These sometimes get lost when someone fumbles around in there. There are a few differences from the GS bikes -- it looks like the actual "clutch" part might be #8.
http://www.partshark.com/fiche_sect...y=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=1983&fveh=2125

 

[Barneycanoe]

Thanks Guys, a bit chilly up in Canada right now, but I will get to it before too long.
I didn't think I had to pull the rotor based on the service manual, that will be a pain to get off.

Dave

 

[oldrookie]

Kinda would like to hear more. How do you know the starter is good? Have you pulled it to confirm it is good?

 

[tkent02]

Thanks Guys, a bit chilly up in Canada right now, but I will get to it before too long.
I didn't think I had to pull the rotor based on the service manual, that will be a pain to get off.

Dave

It pops off quite easily on some models.
On a Tempter I have no idea.

 

[bwringer]

Thanks Guys, a bit chilly up in Canada right now, but I will get to it before too long.
I didn't think I had to pull the rotor based on the service manual, that will be a pain to get off.

Dave

You won't need to pull the rotor if the gear (#1 on the diagram) is tight on the rotor. You can easily check to see if this is wiggling around without removing the rotor.

I suspect it'll be fine, actually -- on GS models, there's a clutch mechanism in here that puts tremendous stress on these bolts if the engine kicks back. On the GR, it's just bolted on and the clutch mechanism is over in that #8 widget.

 

[Barneycanoe]

Starter has tested good. I thought it might be the pinion thingie. Makes a screeching noise when pressing starter, nothing happens apart from noise.

Dave

 

[Barneycanoe]

Okay, as you can see Part #8 (From the reference above) the starter pinion, is not making close contact with gear #1. Gear #1 is solidly held onto the rotor with no wiggle or space that I can see. Pinion looks intact. Clutch I am guessing is the bulbous piece on the outer end of the pinion.

Any ideas where to go from here?

Dave

 

[salty_monk]

This photo is currently unavailable.

Can't see your pic... maybe need to make the album public or something

 

[tom203]

That bulbous piece looks like typical auto starter drive- when starter motor spins, the little gear on bulbous piece advances inward to engage the big gear on rotor. Likely the little gear "travels" on spiral grooves- can you twist it- maybe it's stuck?

 

[Barneycanoe]

GR650 SWtarter

GR650 SWtarter

OK, think I fixed the picture, forgot to save after upload.

So I put the pinion in the bike, and spinning it with my right hand I can see the small gear does move toward the bike and engage the "ring" gear. Not as much engagement as I would like to see.

Very little evidence of the gears being damaged, jsut a very slight marking on one face (the face toward the rear of the bike of the ring gear)

Now wondering if my son had let the battery get a little low, and it didn't provide enough centrifugal force to spin the pinion gear out all the way.

Going to reassemble and try again with a fully charged battery as all else looks ok.

BY the way, when removing the cover (a pain since one of the locating pieces/pins was a bit rusty) I only lost about one ounce of oil. Definetely don't need to drain the oil for this one. The bike had sat for a while though.

Regards, I'll let you know what happens.

Dave

 

[bwringer]

OK, think I fixed the picture, forgot to save after upload.

So I put the pinion in the bike, and spinning it with my right hand I can see the small gear does move toward the bike and engage the "ring" gear. Not as much engagement as I would like to see.

Very little evidence of the gears being damaged, jsut a very slight marking on one face (the face toward the rear of the bike of the ring gear)

Now wondering if my son had let the battery get a little low, and it didn't provide enough centrifugal force to spin the pinion gear out all the way.

Going to reassemble and try again with a fully charged battery as all else looks ok.

BY the way, when removing the cover (a pain since one of the locating pieces/pins was a bit rusty) I only lost about one ounce of oil. Definetely don't need to drain the oil for this one. The bike had sat for a while though.

Regards, I'll let you know what happens.

Dave

Sounds like you're on the right track!

Good to know you don't have to drain the oil to remove the stator cover on a GR.

 

[78gs750e]

On my wifes gr650 the battery cable to the starter was tiny and would get in fits where the starter would ingage but not turn over the motor. A new thicker wire from the battery to solinoid and then to starter fixed the problem on ours.

 

[78gs750e]

The people we bought it from thought the starter was bad because it was not turning over the motor all the time. So it had the problem for quite a while and i am willing to be it is a common problem.

 

[oldrookie]

Sounds very much like what mine was doing when I bought it.

Mine made all the right noises, but wasn't spinning enough to shoot the starter shaft out. That is why I was asking earlier in the thread if the starter had tested okay.

In my starter the brushes were completely shot. A bunch of dust fell out of the case as soon as I took the rear end cap off.

I rebuilt it and it ate another set of brushes. Commutator was badly grooved and it just destroyed the brushes. Best price and service I found to buy the rebuild kit was dbelectric out of Tennessee.

Ended up buying a used starter from old_skool. Has worked like a charm since.

You can test it before putting it all back together. Check out the procedure on Basscliff's site. Saves a lot of effort putting it in and taking it out.

 

[78gs750e]

True about the brushes we checked them in ours and they were fine, but they do need to be inspected

 

[oldrookie]

That's good news. Just thought I'd save you some trouble based on the numerous mistakes I've made with mine.

 

[Barneycanoe]

Thanks for all the good advice!

Dave

ps OldRookie...where on BassCliff's site - I can't see anything appropriate

 

[oldrookie]

Thanks for all the good advice!

Dave

ps OldRookie...where on BassCliff's site - I can't see anything appropriate

Sorry, Barneycanoe. Best I can find is this http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/electrical_odd-n-ends.html#A10

Thought I had seen a video on how to test through a link on his site. I spent a lot of time looking for the procedure and must have confused myself.

Fairly simple process anyway. Take starter out. Take the battery out and hook set of jumper cables up as follows

1. Negative battery connection to one of the bolt brackets at the back of the starter.

2. Connect the positive jumper cable to the battery positive.

3. Hold starter down with a foot or, better yet, clamp it down.

4. Touch the positive end of the jumper cable to the positive connection on the side of the starter case. Make sure the starter is restrained before doing so!

5. If all is good the starter will immediately spin up and the shaft will spin out from the starter.

Here's an example from another bike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lH5ZFF9dAY