GS1100E 16V: Cannot stop Valve Cover Leak

[howling60]

Morning all,

wanted to post up and try to get some thoughts from the hive mind.
My bike is an '82 GS1100E 16V. mileage is approx 36k
I hauled the bike out for the spring, and after the first ride noticed a bit of an oil leak from the front of the valve cover. chalked it up to a couple bolts that have stripped out and bought heli-coils.
Fast-fwd 2 weeks to when i realized the stripped bolts are on the BACK of the VC. Tightened up (all by hand, don't have a torque wrench for that light of a torque) the bolts around entire VC. Rode 20 min to work and when i got there, found that the oil was just pouring out the front of the VC (makes a really nice bug deterrent when i hit stop-lights, but needless to say its a bit alarming).

Looking at the gasket (new at the end of last season, because the old one was weeping, but not this badly), it looks like it has been pushed backwards (almost like it was squeezed).
I have a real-gasket on the way, and am likely going to be pulling the motor so that I can properly drill & helicoil those stripped holes, however... does anyone have additional thoughts on causes or fixes here?

More info, the bike has always had a bit of a weep on the base gasket, that I generally disregard... old-bike syndrome.

Anyways, enough of my rambling, just hoping someone may be able to shed some thoughts or insight on a best direction. I am tempted to put gasket sealant on both sides of the gasket and see if i can plug off the leaks for now (i know, not a great solution).

Located in Raymond NH if anyone is semi-local

-Nate

 

[Burque73]

Not sure if I read it in the manual or just folks talking here, but the tightening order should go from inside (near cam chain tunnel) to outside. I've always torqued them down a little at a time in that order so none are completely tightened until all have been snugged up. I figured the gasket could be squished unevenly, or worse the aluminum cover could get twisted a bit, and either of those would create a leak.

Did you follow that sort of iinside to outside tightening pattern?

Is the leakiing gasket OEM?

 

[rphillips]

Just say'in, a couple of yrs. ago I thought I had a VC gasket leak, more than just seeping, quite a bit of oil blown all around eng. After working on VC gasket a couple of times I realized the leak must be from something else. Finally found an "O" ring on the right front inner head nut was the problem. I know, you should be able to tell if VC gasket leak, but the way the oil was blowing around while riding??? Also be sure to check the tach drive seal. I never remember the VC gaskets causing a "pouring leak" as you described.

 

[howling60]

Not sure if I read it in the manual or just folks talking here, but the tightening order should go from inside (near cam chain tunnel) to outside. I've always torqued them down a little at a time in that order so none are completely tightened until all have been snugged up. I figured the gasket could be squished unevenly, or worse the aluminum cover could get twisted a bit, and either of those would create a leak.

Did you follow that sort of iinside to outside tightening pattern?

Is the leakiing gasket OEM?

good questions... I honestly don't remember what the tightening process was @ this point. I will check that out.

Gasket... also a good question, don't even remember who I bought it from, let alone which company made it

-Nate

 

[howling60]

Just say'in, a couple of yrs. ago I thought I had a VC gasket leak, more than just seeping, quite a bit of oil blown all around eng. After working on VC gasket a couple of times I realized the leak must be from something else. Finally found an "O" ring on the right front inner head nut was the problem. I know, you should be able to tell if VC gasket leak, but the way the oil was blowing around while riding??? Also be sure to check the tach drive seal. I never remember the VC gaskets causing a "pouring leak" as you described.

The blowing aspect is a good point. I will be cleaning off the engine (and everything else...), re-seating the VC gasket, and seeing if i can pinpoint location. I may be jumping to conclusions of it being VC, but the oil is spread evenly across the entire engine front, and the shifted gasket makes me tend to focus there.

Will check on all that and will be sure to post back in!

Thanks

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

I shouldn't have to say this but I will. Probably preaching to the choir. But, you will check valve clearances while you have the VC off anyway, right? Wouldn't make any sense not to.

I don't know if Nate is from Bangor, ME or southern NH, but I know Yankees tend to be pretty bright, and he's got a bunch of bikes in his signature, but ya never know.

 

[howling60]

I shouldn't have to say this but I will. Probably preaching to the choir. But, you will check valve clearances while you have the VC off anyway, right? Wouldn't make any sense not to.

I don't know if Nate is from Bangor, ME or southern NH, but I know Yankees tend to be pretty bright, and he's got a bunch of bikes in his signature, but ya never know.

Oh i fully plan on checking clearances, cause as you say "if you're in there...." It has only had 2k on it since i had them adjusted last year so one would hope nothing has changed...

As for where I'm at... literally just moved, so both locations are true Thanks for the Yankee props, hopefully I live up to them

-Nate

 

[zuluwiz]

I have an 81 gs850 with oil all over the front of the engine, and I thought it was the base gasket. Turns out the forks blow oil all over because the pitting on the tubes keeps eating the seals. I have discovered that as I am no mechanic, whatever I think is at fault at first is never what turns out to be the actual problem.

 

[Guest]

its been my experience that the 16 valve gasket is quite thinner than the 8v and is prone to shifting around. I use the absolute minimum torque value on the bolts and it seems to help, higher values seem to cut into the gasket more and exacerbate the problem, at least for me. I have tried using a THIN coat of something like yamabond sealer (not anything goopy like rtv) to glue the gasket to the head with mixed success....but you dont want any squeeze-out getting into things, so go very sparingly. Controversial, I know.

 

[howling60]

I have an 81 gs850 with oil all over the front of the engine, and I thought it was the base gasket. Turns out the forks blow oil all over because the pitting on the tubes keeps eating the seals. I have discovered that as I am no mechanic, whatever I think is at fault at first is never what turns out to be the actual problem.

unfortunately this is very much so engine oil

To be honest, in my experience (especially with older equip like these bikes) problems are rarely 1-culprit

 

[howling60]

its been my experience that the 16 valve gasket is quite thinner than the 8v and is prone to shifting around. I use the absolute minimum torque value on the bolts and it seems to help, higher values seem to cut into the gasket more and exacerbate the problem, at least for me. I have tried using a THIN coat of something like yamabond sealer (not anything goopy like rtv) to glue the gasket to the head with mixed success....but you dont want any squeeze-out getting into things, so go very sparingly. Controversial, I know.

agreed on the yamabond type stuff, mixed feelings on it for this application. we shall see?

 

[Tom R]

I’ll second checking the o rings on the head nut.... when the oil starts blowing around it can be hard to see where it’s coming from.
Pretty sure you have a 20 bolt cover; But I have the earlier 16 bolt version and have just come to accept seepage from the front of the cam chain tunnel. The head cover gasket I’m using now is a considerably thicker Cometic brand (I’d like to find another)... I still need to wipe it off once in a while, but at least it’s not dripping.

 

[howling60]

I just took a closer (again) look. the VC gasket has certainly "shifted" but only around the fwd cam-chain area, you can see the gap when looking from the front of the engine. *sigh*. it honestly looks like the gasket has shifted a solid 1/8"

anywho...

-Nate

 

[posplayr]

There are multiple common ways for the VS to leak.

1.) weeping is commonly associated with old o-ring gaskets on the center two head bolts.



2.) I have fought similar issues with oil leaking/pouring out the front of the VC. It occured on a long trip and i was 1000 miles from more and did not want to pull the VC on the side of the road.

A brand new Commetic VC gasket had squeezed out of the front. The basic problem is that the VC mating surface was crowned and squeezed the gasket out. Since then i alway use a clean flat file to surface prepare all my gasket surfaces.

3.) A real gasket is a big problem for 16V engines becuase it will cause teh cam tach gear to not engage sufficently and grind of teh mating gear on teh cam. Now you have even bigger problem,. Do not use a real gasket on 16V engine!!!!!

4.) If you or the PO are/were a brute, then it might be a good idea to helicoil all of the VC cover bolts. These are easy to strip , but can be easily eliminated with helicoils.

 

[Cipher]

One thing I noticed years ago when some of my cam cover bolt holes stripped was that the remaining "good" holes had marginal threads at the point of failure.
one of my "good" ones failed and although it looked fully seated engine vibrations would make it turn in and out.

Does you bike have a molded rubber gasket with a grrove in the cam cover or a simple flat gasket?
Permatex makes a oil resistant aviation gasket sealer that works extremely well.

 

[howling60]

There are multiple common ways for the VS to leak.

1.) weeping is commonly associated with old o-ring gaskets on the center two head bolts.



2.) I have fought similar issues with oil leaking/pouring out the front of the VC. It occured on a long trip and i was 1000 miles from more and did not want to pull the VC on the side of the road.

A brand new Commetic VC gasket had squeezed out of the front. The basic problem is that the VC mating surface was crowned and squeezed the gasket out. Since then i alway use a clean flat file to surface prepare all my gasket surfaces.

3.) A real gasket is a big problem for 16V engines becuase it will cause teh cam tach gear to not engage sufficently and grind of teh mating gear on teh cam. Now you have even bigger problem,. Do not use a real gasket on 16V engine!!!!!

4.) If you or the PO are/were a brute, then it might be a good idea to helicoil all of the VC cover bolts. These are easy to strip , but can be easily eliminated with helicoils.

Thanks! now that you mention it, i did see the note about RG on a 16V (or more accurately the tach drive part). when i ordered it, I wasn't near my bike, and was totally thinking of the tach drive on one of my others... d'oh.

oh well. I will totally check out the flatness of the gasket surface, not something that ever occurred to me.

As for heli-coils. at this stage, i think it is certainly in my best interest to do them all. All indications are that the PO was a bit of a brute, and i'm sure that nothing is in fantastic shape at this stage of the game.

Thanks again!

-Nate

 

[posplayr]

When I rebuilt my GS1100E I did every bolt on all the covers (stator, clutch, VC). I don't remember if i did the oil pan as well, but i probably rand a smooth file across all surfaces. If you keep the flat teeth clean you can put a nice surface on it. Don't use a cheap chinese file that is bent. Check for flatness.

If you do the surface the head's VC mating surface , do not pull the cam caps and try to file those surfaces. You will ruin the cam clearance.