GS550ES will not start when hot help

[reem98]

I have an 83 GS550ES 16v that will not start if its hot when using the starter...BUT it will start if I roll down a hill and pop the clutch. I am wondering why it would start one way and not the other??
Anyone have an idea
thanks

 

[Zook]

Sounds like a voltage drop issue. The starter or something in the starting circuit is drawing excessive current thus not allowing the ignition to produce a spark.

 

[Steve]

As Zook says, check the starter. It could be a build-up of carbon on the brushes or dry bushings, requiring more current to turn it.
That lowers voltage available to the coils, causing starting problems.

Another thing to check would be all your power and ground connections to the starter. From the battery, there is a large wire to the starter solenoid, then another large wire to the starter. The starter grounds to the engine, make sure the starter mounting bolts are snug. There is another large wire from the engine to the chassis and yet another one from the chassis to the battery. ALL of these connections need to be clean and tight to minimize any problems.

Have you checked the battery? A hot battery loses a bit of power, too. If the battery is aging or is not filled properly with electrolyte, its capacity will be drastically reduced, and a hot engine requires a little more oomph to get it going.

.

 

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. reem98,

This should help get you started. It's your mega-welcome!

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
***********************************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm


Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[Dave8338]

Better than ever...

Better than ever...

Cliff...you keep "tweak'n" the Mega-Welcome...and well...the rest of us won't be needed any longer! Awesome "Cliff's Notes" if I dare say so.

Welcome, reem98, you have found THEEEEE site!

 

[xbeakerx]

I have an 83 GS550ES 16v that will not start if its hot when using the starter...BUT it will start if I roll down a hill and pop the clutch. I am wondering why it would start one way and not the other??
Anyone have an idea
thanks

i have this problem when i ride my bike for a day ride and its hot outside. i ended up finding it was the battery not getting enough vottage to everything and my bike wouldnt stay on. i have not bought another battery cause i havent been riding it. i plan i buying one soon since i'm back riding it again.

 

[reem98]

Thanks alot guys for the welcome, I think I'm gona guess it was the starter pullin to much current because It just failed. Now when I go to start it the starter maybe turns half a rev and then the lights dim an it sits, the motor is not locked cause I can pop the clutch and it does the same thang with jumpers on the batt. So i'm removing the starter now. Are these starters worth rebuilding I know the brushes wear out but is it worth it replacing them.

 

[tkent02]

Ebay might be easier, the starters fit several years/models.
You will learn more rebuilding the starter.

 

[GQROD]

I have the same bike and just had similiar issues in my case the butt connector had come loose. Check the yellow and green wire coming from the starter solenoid, trace it until you get under the fuel tank, it has a butt connector there, if this gets loose there will not be current to the solenoid. You won't hear it click !!, thus the starter won't get juice to turn over.
1-Charge battery
2-jump the solenoid with a screw driver ( touch both big terminals with the screw driver) to see if starter is getting juice from solenoid.
3-If Starter turns then the solenoid is good. If solenoid is bad you can get one at home depot or auto zone or Lowes or under $13.00 from thier lawn tractor parts area. I used it and it works. Just put a seperate ground wire to the bracket then to the chassis, the new solenoid grounds from the bracket, and the one metal tab is for the positive ( yellow and green wire to stock wiring harness).
4-You can check current coming from the swicth to the solenoid with a test light without taking the switch apart, just pull back some of th eblack wire cover you will see 4 wires, it should be the orange and white one. Touch the test light to this wire making sure the point of th etest light goes through the wire insulation to make good contact, then push the starter swtich in. If the test light illuminates then the switch is good if not the swithc is not making good contact or there is no current to the swtich.
hope this helps!

 

[makenzie71]

similar issues on my CX500. Problem is the stator. After the bike warmed up the stator started shorting out. After a bit it'd stop charging the battery...and you didn't know because the bike would run great. New stator, problem went away. Not sure if it would apply to the 550, but it's something to check into.

 

[reem98]

So I pulled my old starter out and put in a used one I got off ebay, and the bike still only turns very slowly. I tryed using the quick 125amp jump function on my batt charger but it still turns over very slow. So I pulled the stator cap off to expose the starter gears. They looked to be fine to me and so I just put a wrench on the crank to turn it to make sure it wasn't stuck. I can turn it over easily with a wrench so thats not the problem and the bike will start if I pop the clutch. The only thing I can figure is the ground connections are not good or the selonoid has anyone ever had this problem before? what would be a good way to figure out if the connections/selonoid are not good
thanks

 

[Headphase]

I had a problem where the bike would start fine, but once it was hot, would chug away at the starter as though the battery was flat. Would bump fine. Would start fine when cold again.

I replaced the R/R with a Duanage special. I replaced the Starter solenoid with one out of a bike breakers, I cleaned the starter motor brushes, I cleaned every connector I could get my hands on.

Problem solved. Take your pick though as to which one solved it, or perhaps a combination of all of the above. All I know is my bike turns over amazingly well now, cold or hot.

 

[550ERAT]

I am having the same exact problem. My bike will start right up cold. After a short ride, the bike will not restart. am gonna go over the stator papers again and checks all the connections. I just changed the starter and that is not the problem.......

 

[duaneage]

I would look for a lean condition caused by leaky intake boots between the carbs and the head. Also a low float level can cause this although not common. You did not say if the bike cranks or not. If it cranks but not catches look to the carbs. If it does not crank the starter is probably due a set of brushes or the battery is getting hot and not up to the task. Unless you installed a new starter it is possible the replacement needs brushes too.

 

[silverhorse47]

Could the mega welcome be compressed into one link? It does cover some ground, but it also interferes with the continuity of the thread, if one is really trying to get to the root of the problem.
S.

 

[reem98]

I am now really confused as to why my bike is working again. As I said earlier I was having trouble starting the bike, and it just happened suddenly so I figured it was the starter itself. So I pulled it and put in a good used one. Well it did the same thing (cranking very slowly) even while being jumped from a car battery. So i figured it had to be a connection issue so I put an extra 6 gauge gound wire directly to the starter case to the battery. And I replaced the starter relay and ran an extra 10 gauge wire from the relay to the starter + just incase the stock wire was breakin down.
When I went to start it up with this setup it still turned over really slow. So next I pulled the kill switch cause I noticed a V drop across it cleaned it up good and the start button. I also pulled the ignition (key) assembly and cleaned all its contacts. I put it all back together and it still did the same thing starting really slow like something was binding in the motor...but I could easily turn it over with a wrench on the alternator assembly so that didn't make sense to me.
Then to top it off I was trying to start it over and over got frustrated so I walked away and after a 20 min break I came back and it starts spinning at the correct speed, and I could start it again.
And so far it starts right up.
Is there some way the starter gears/clutch could bind up due to heat or something???

 

[550ERAT]

I am having the exact same problem. EXACTLY...... I am going to replace the r/r and possibly the solenoid too. Duanage recommended not running bike until new r/r is on so I don't fry the stator. I am also going to do the stator tests again to see if there is a problem there. I replaced the starter with a brand new one, checked all the connections and no change. Starts when cold, won't when hot.

 

[duaneage]

Test the stator out first then contact me if the RR is suspect.

 

[p_s]

Did you measure the voltage on the positive side of the coils? Mine was low on my GS550ES so I wired in a relay. Then at least when my bike died and wouldn't start I didn't have to guess what the problem was--it was the relay of course. (Then I sucked it up and bought a new $100 ignition switch.)

 

[jay66]

I had that problem with my 1100, the battery slowly went dead on me and then wouldn't start when hot. It turned out to be coroded conections by the battery box.