Help! will I make it? problems but need to ride home

[newbie851519]

Sorry it's a bit long, I wanted to give all the info to help diagnose.
I've had some previous posts going, but I'll recap on what the situation is. I have an '80 GS 850 GT, bought 3 mo's ago, don't know what has been done before me. It ran okay, didn't fire on #3 cyl, and backfired. Replaced exaust gaskets, cleaned airbox, replaced plugs. Ran great on all 4 cyl, no popping, burned some oil when under load and warm, and it ran for 500 miles this way, no problems. Then, the neighboor tapped it lightly (while bike was parked on center stand) with his car, it tipped over to the right. Has sissy bars, so it didn't touch the engine, but scratched some stuff up, and broke the clutch lever, all in all not bad. Now, however, cyl #1 wont fire (the exhaust is cold). Spark plug is new, so I dont think that's it.

Question 1: Do you think it's the carb? Stuck float? Any other thoughts? The petcock worked fine 500 miles ago.

Second problem: it burns oil, about a liter every 500 miles. There is oil that leaks out the drain from the airbox, and oil (I think) getting into the carbs. The rubber tubes that connect carbs to airbox have oil on the inside of them. So I'm thinking it might be blowby through the breather tube and into the airbox, right? And maybe rings since it burns under load. It has burned significantly less oil with #1 cyl not firing. Compression test yesterday yielded (engine warm, throttle wide open):
(Dry)
1: 90
2: 90
3: 100
4: 100
(With a little oil)
1: 105
2: 120
3: 130
4: 125

Question 2: Does this mean that the valve seals and rings both are bad? It has 37,700 miles on it.

I have to get from Oregon to Minnesota (2,000 miles) by May 23. I was hoping to ride the bike there, as I will be in MN for the summer and want to have it with me to work on it and be able to ride. I am low on cash, enough to make it home, not enough to tow it. I was planning on riding 5 hours per day, so 5-6 days to get there. I would have to leave on the 16th at the latest to be sure. So I don't have much time. I don't think it's possible to get a gasket kit and rings and valve seals and the like, and replace all that in the next 10 days...

Question 3: Would it hurt the bike to ride it 2,000 miles while burning oil? Would I be likely to break down with these readings on the compression? What would go? As I need to get home and really want the bike with me, would you recommend the ride?

Thanks for any help you can offer, it's much appreciated!

 

[mark]

Don't ride it that far on 3 cylinders! That just sounds like a recipe for trouble.

But if you can get it running good (like before) on all 4, I'd probably go for it. You'll burn just over a quart a day. That's not great, but not super bad. I'm assuming your tires etc. are in decent shape. Low compression doesn't mean that you'll break down.

I don't know how much oil you're sucking into your airbox. Some oil is normal. Again, if you clean it out once in a while on the way, you'll probably be fine.

Then again, if your on a real tight budget, I'd think twice about messing with a bike that you'll end up pulling the head and the block, new rings and all of that. Sounds like that bike is worn out. If your block needs to be bored, and valves re-done, you're looking at quite a bit of money. If you do run into trouble on your trip, its going to be money too.

For 500 - 600 dollars, perhaps you could buy a better and less maintenance intensive bike and come out ahead.

 

[newbie851519]

Don't ride it that far on 3 cylinders! That just sounds like a recipe for trouble.

Yea, I was going to make sure to fix that before I leave.

Sounds like that bike is worn out. If your block needs to be bored, and valves re-done, you're looking at quite a bit of money. If you do run into trouble on your trip, its going to be money too.

For 500 - 600 dollars, perhaps you could buy a better and less maintenance intensive bike and come out ahead.

Do you think a rebore and valves redone would be necessary? It only has 37,700 miles on it. How much would it cost to do those? I have the time, and the will to learn, but I'm on a budget that is about $400.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Guest]

i have recently taken a similar bike appart

the bike should still be ok for your trip as long as you have it going on all 4 cylinders and are easy on the throtle

however, when it comes to repairing it, the only way to know for sure what needs to be done is to take the engine appart and examine the parts (but it does sound like you have problems with both cylinders and valves)

you also need to figure out how far you want to go in rebuilding it
a set of rings and valve grinding should generaly improve things a lot, and you'd stay within your budget, but how long the results might last depends on the level of wear you find

if you want to go all the way, there's quite a few parts that wear down, like pistons, rings, gudgeon pins, valves, valve guides, valve springs, cam chain, etc.

i learnt not to judge the condition of a bike by it's mileage - it doesn't really tell you much about the treatment it got from PO and it may not even be accurate

 

[Dave8338]

As much as you may want to ride the bike up here (Minnesota)...if you do have a break down, it will most likely happen in the middle of nowhere and will cost you your repair budget on a tow and storage. If your lucky and happen to make it...the likelyhood that you've sustained additional damage to the bike in the process is high and may cost you more than your budget to put it back correctly, for the return trip.

Not to open the flood gates to the hoards of GS fans around the golbe...but you can find some real deals on these bikes "up er in deez pertz"...that would be the direction that I'd choose in your case. :-\"

 

[rgierer]

IMHO the issue I would focus on was making sure your oil is not getting gas dumped in it. My expereince has been that you will go through oil if it is partailly gasoline. You will also do innumerable bad things to your engine. Burning up your stator is the least of it.

I had the expereince of having a coil go out on a GS1100G, 300 miles from home. I rode it home it just went slow and used up lots of gas. I could maintain 60 mph though and all went well. In that scenario I was travelling on 2 of the 4.

 

[Steve]

I can't help you much with your mechanical issues, but I do have a question.

If you are going to ride 5-6 hours per day, what are you going to do the other 8-10 hours that you could be riding? :-s

2000 miles should be very doable in 3-4 days.


.

 

[Guest]

Before I'd go 2,000 miles I'd do these things.
Check valve clearance.
Replace petcock (no rebuild)
Clean carbs http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
Change shaft oil
Rethread spark plug caps after snipping old wire connection a bit.
Clean all electrical grounds on frame and engine
Go through all electrical connections and look for old bullet connections that need attention.
Clean ignition switch with WD-40
Clean starter button and engine kill switch with electrical cleaner.
Change oil and filter
Clean gas tank cap vent (spray carb cleaner till you hear ball bearing rattle about)
Check brake pads and tires
Make sure clutch cable isn't frayed at either end. (maybe bring a spare)
Make sure battery is good and charging system is sound. (See stator papers http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_garage.htm)

Bring along some spare spark plugs and socket. Bring some tools and maybe a can of fix a flat or canned air to get you to a repair shop. Bring spare fuses.

 

[newbie851519]

Thanks for the great advice. I'll do all the items on the list, it looks fairly straight forward. I have a couple of questions.

Replace petcock (no rebuild)

Rethread spark plug caps after snipping old wire connection a bit.

Go through all electrical connections and look for old bullet connections that need attention.

-Can I get a petcock in time? I have to leave by the 15th.
-Am not sure what you mean by rethreading and snipping old wire connection..
-What are old bullet connections?

The help is much appreciated.

 

[dpep]

Carry enough money or a credit card with you to buy a Greyhound bus ticket home from any point along the route.

 

[paintmann111]

If she does go down along the way, make sure you put her down the pain free way, with a bullet through the gas tank. No need to let her suffer.

 

[gs_kiwi]

bike

bike

looking at your post .
you didn't say if you had spark or not? on 1# i need to know this
i think the compression is leading to most of your problems
the wet test shows the piston rings are worn in turn this may be causing the oil in your air box by causing more than std pressure in the crank case. this dosen't me your valve seals worn but going by the rings being worn i would quess they would have to be replaced as well.
but in saying that if the motor is over filled with oil this will cause the same fault .

the oil burning problem sounds ok it is an air cooled motor and runnings hotter than a water cooled motor it is normal for a engine to use 1000 mls per 1000km and your motor is not new

i think if you were to fix it you would need to re bore with new pistons the job you want to do is a bike one and would need some tools

the biggest think you need to do is make ith run on 4 first.

come back to me with ths spark info plug colur and if its wet or dry

 

[Guest]

Most of the wire connections on these GS bikes are bullet style.
See if the local shop will have a petcock overnighted. I would pay the extra shipping cause it's worth it.
The end of the spark plug wires where the spark plug cap screws on tend to get old and flaky. I cut it a little till I see nice clean wires.

 

[dpep]

The least I would suggest you do is test your petcock and make sure the reserve position works. You don't want to find out your reserve doesn't work in the fast lane on an interstate and have to chug/coast across several lanes of high speed traffic to make your way to the shoulder. Ask me how I know.

Ride your bike locally low on gas and run out in the On position. Make sure the lever will move into reserve and that the bike continues to run. The alternative is to always fill up well short of reserve postion. For an 850 you should be able to get away safely with every 130-140 miles.

 

[newbie851519]

update

update

Dragonfly helped me out this morning diagnosing...
We just got done pulling the carbs to see what's up. They all look good, I'll have to reset the float heights and do a sync, but they're all pretty clean, and the jets are clear.

Found no spark on #1, cut wire connection on plug caps, and rethreaded them. Spark now good, and with new plug, it sparks. Still not much heat on #1 exhaust, but more than before. Put petcock in prime position, to see if it was bad. Prime position and it runs great, much better acceleration, and it runs evenly on all 4. I just ordered an entire new petcock assembly, the local shop will have it here in 2 days.

gs_kiwi,
The #1 plug is a bit sooty and black, not too bad though. It still sparks.
The others are less sooty but all have a thin layer of black on them. Is this okay?

I'll try and check valve clearances and sync the carbs today. I'll keep you all posted. Much thanks for the help.

 

[newbie851519]

gas in oil???

gas in oil???

how do i check whether or not there's gas in the oil? The airbox smells rather gassy, and like I said before, there's a fair amount of oil in it.

If there is gas in the oil, what's the fault, and how do I fix it?

Thanks

 

[salty_monk]

You should be able to smell it. I think it would be a leaky petcock & carbs overflowing allowing gas into the oil.

Good either should solve the problem so if you buy your new petcock & fit it, change the oil after & don't worry about it...

Plugs sound a little rich, try cleaning your air filter or fitting a new element.

Sounds like after that you might be ready to go......

Dan

 

[gs_kiwi]

hmmm

hmmm

thats great you have found some faults.
the motor sounds rich as salty monk has pointed out.
worry about this later i can help you out with that.
if there is fuel in the oil it would not be the fuel tap.
more likely needle valves leaking or float height out of range.
fuel in side the float assemable causing the float sink in the fuel.
when you have the carbs off check also for wear on the slide needles
and what size jets are in the carb.
also check the vaccum line for holes to fuel tap as it needs engine vaccum to work.

 

[Dave8338]

if there is fuel in the oil it would not be the fuel tap.
QUOTE]

If the petcock is just leaking fuel through the diaphragm, it has a direct route into the #2 carb, via the vacuum line connection. Allow enough time to pass (depending on how bad the leak is) and you'll have fuel in the oil. Worse case... hydrolock the #2 piston and bend a rod.

I'll take a dollar (US) for every "fuel in oil" post here that is directly related to the petcock...the most likely of culprits. :?

 

[newbie851519]

ready to go

ready to go

Well, I have completed all that every one of you has suggested to do pre-ride, and it all looks good. I had to put in a new valve shim, and adjust float heights that were set way off. the jets in the carbs are all spec, the vacuum is sealed with no holes to the petcock, which is replaced. the brakes are bled and there are new pads on, it stops MUCH nicer and faster now. the oils are all changed, the electrical good. it runs on all four. i wasn't able to do a sync, but i think i should make it by adding a little oil every so often. thanks for the great help, i'll let you know if anything goes out on the way.