Honda R/R Sense wire - Direct to Battery?

[posplayr]

This is the relay I have. It has a nice little graphic on the side in what appears, to me, to be some antediluvean language. Easily readable if you click on the image.

So, near as I can make out:
30 goes right to battery with a fuse.
85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?)
86 is the ground coming off the coils
87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils

Wired correctly, I think I can get less than 12" wire between R/R->Relay->Battery. That will have this one relay powering coils and sense, if I understand this right...

30 goes right to battery with a fuse.

Yes

85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?)

Yes; it is low current so doesn't matter too much.

86 is the ground coming off the coils

NO 86 needs to come from your ignition/on switch.
Your (-) side of the coils are controlled by the igniter and remain unchanged.

87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils

That will work well.

There are some details which require only minimum changes to the harness. Like where the relay mounts, how you control it and how you separate the coils that are currently connected to the ignition/on switch.

 

[bonanzadave]

So, near as I can make out:
30 goes right to battery with a fuse. Correct
85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?) Correct. Either one should work
86 is the ground coming off the coils. Connect the wire(s) from the coils to 86. This will open and close the relay with the key.
87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils Correct

Wired correctly, I think I can get less than 12" wire between R/R->Relay->Battery. That will have this one relay powering coils and sense, if I understand this right...

For the price of the relays I think I would do one for each. One relay for the Coils and one for the RR sense. If you double up on one relay then you have a double failure if the relay goes bad.

 

[posplayr]

Dave

Dave

For the price of the relays I think I would do one for each. One relay for the Coils and one for the RR sense. If you double up on one relay then you have a double failure if the relay goes bad.

Dave it is actually only one failure becuase if the coil mod relay goes out the bike stops. The sense wire won't matter.

replacing the relay or jumpering the plug puts you back on the road.

With two relays if the coil relay goes out, the second one does NOT do you any good becuase you are not running.

If the sense relay goes out you could over charge and not know it . There is a point of redundancy that just masks problems rather than providing any marginal benefit.



Jim

 

[mostholycerebus]

Holy cow. Cool, thanks guys. Just a few more Qs and I think I got this.

For the coils, they each have 2 wires. The left coil has an Orange-with-white-stripe and a white wire. The right coil has an Orange-with-white-stripe and a black-with-white-stripe wire. If i'm reading other threads right, the Orange-with-white-stripe wires are the coil power, and get wired to relay terminal 87? And the white and black wires are the 'ignition' wires and go to relay terminal 86?

 

[mostholycerebus]

Last time i looked at this, prob with wiring right to the Kill switch was that its completely covered in plastic and dissapears into the headlight assembly. It looks to have 2 orange wires and a yellow under the plastic.

 

[Griffin]

Griffin,
Sorry when I first saw that i though it was a joke .

Are you talking about an oil pressure switch or an oil pressure sensor?

Jim

Oil pressure switch. Sorry.

I used this wire because when I first wired it to the tailight wire, I got about 15.1 volts. Looking around the wiring mess beside the reg/rec, I saw a green with yellow trace wire. I looked at the wiring diagram to see what it was, and it was the oil pressure switch wire. It seemed like a good candidate, because it is only energized when the ignition is turned on. There was a connector right there, so I just stuck the brown sensing wire in there, started the bike, checked the operation of everything (including the oil pressure light) and it all worked beautifully. I permanently wired it in, and it's been there for about a year and 3,000 miles with no issues at all.

Edit: Just for the record, the bike regularly sits for a week or two at a time, and the AGM battery is always at 12.7 volts at rest, even after sitting for two weeks. The voltage readings across the battery terminals are 12.8 volts at 1,200 rpm idle, 13.4 volts at 2,000 rpm, and 14.2-14.4 volts from 2,500 rpm to redline.

 

[posplayr]

It works

It works

used this wire because when I first wired it to the tailight wire, I got about 15.1 volts. Looking around the wiring mess beside the reg/rec, I saw a green with yellow trace wire. I looked at the wiring diagram to see what it was, and it was the oil pressure switch wire.

Well if it is convenient; you realize if your oil warning light is on it is because the pressure switch is grounded. This will cause the R/R to want to increase the output. Since this usually only happens at idle the likelihood of overcharging in minimal. Kinda compensating effects if you will.

Pos

 

[Griffin]

Well if it is convienent; you realize if your oil warning light is on it is because the pressure switch is grounded. This will cuase the R/R to want to increase the output. Since this happens at idle the likelihood of overcharging in minimal. Kinda compensating effects if you will.

Pos

Well, yeah, but if my oil pressure light is on (even at idle, this is a high pressure lubrication system) and the bike is running, I have other things to worry about besides my charging system.

 

[bonanzadave]

There is a point of redundancy that just masks problems rather than providing any marginal benefit.

Im with ya Pos. Duane is not a big fan of any relay. I just couldnt figure how to clean the ign switch contacts. Its the only thing left that could be dropping voltage. I did the RR sense relay mod cause I was up over 15vdc. My brake light supply wire was only 10.5vdc. Now Im at a solid 14.5vdc with the relay.

In these old airplanes there is a Master relay switch and a Generator switch.
If I had 2 small switches, one for the coils and one for the RR sense, straight from the battery + no one could ever start or steal my Bike :dancing:Just gotta remember to turn them off.

 

[bonanzadave]

If i'm reading other threads right, the Orange-with-white-stripe wires are the coil power, and get wired to relay terminal 87? And the white and black wires are the 'ignition' wires and go to relay terminal 86?

Ahhhhhh, I dont think so. Jim, the balls in your court.

 

[posplayr]

Dave,
When I first saw it (from an engineering perspective) the coil relay mod seemed to be a patch job at best. Since then I have come around considering the way the wiring and switches are on the old GS to think it is a great addition and I have do it to my ED.
I know some guys are putting many more relays on (light, horns, and now R/R sense), but I kinda prefer just the one at this point (I only have OEM light and horns however).
Jim

Im with ya Pos. Duane is not a big fan of any relay. I just couldnt figure how to clean the ign switch contacts. Its the only thing left that could be dropping voltage. I did the RR sense relay mod cause I was up over 15vdc. My brake light supply wire was only 10.5vdc. Now Im at a solid 14.5vdc with the relay.

In these old airplanes there is a Master relay switch and a Generator switch.
If I had 2 small switches, one for the coils and one for the RR sense, straight from the battery + no one could ever start or steal my Bike :dancing:Just gotta remember to turn them off.

 

[mostholycerebus]

Well, something is wrong because now I get nothing when I hit the start button.

I cut the two orange-with-white-stripe wires going into the coils and crimped them both together into a spade terminal, which connects to a wire. That wire then runs down to relay terminal #87. I left the coil white and black wires alone.

I took apart the kill switch and headlight. The kill switch has three wires coming out of it; Orange, Yellow and Orange/White. I THINK orange is the power to the switch. It goes down to the headlight into a harness, where on the other side of the harness it becomes an Orange/white. This is where I added a wire running to relay terminal #86.

Terminal #30 is connected to battery red with an inline fuse.

Terminal #85 is connected to battery ground.

Now when I turn the bike on all the lights come up, but when I hit the starter nothing happens.

I'm a bit lost here now....

 

[posplayr]

If need a volt meter or test light

If need a volt meter or test light

make sure that the power to #86 goes up and down with your ignition/ON switch.

As i said there is an easy way to do this. No need to go into the right hand switch so not really sure what you did.

If #86 does not go up and down then you did something wrong in the switch area.

 

[bonanzadave]

I cut the two orange-with-white-stripe wires going into the coils and crimped them both together into a spade terminal, Those two wires go to term 86 which connects to a wire. That wire then runs down to relay terminal #87. ??? You have to connect two new wires to term 87 and then connect them to the coils where the orange-with white stripe wires were I left the coil white and black wires alone. Thats good

I took apart the kill switch and headlight. The kill switch has three wires coming out of it; Orange, Yellow and Orange/White. I THINK orange is the power to the switch. It goes down to the headlight into a harness, where on the other side of the harness it becomes an Orange/white. This is where I added a wire running to relay terminal #86. Ya shouldnt had to do that.

Terminal #30 is connected to battery red with an inline fuse. Thats good

Terminal #85 is connected to battery ground. Thats good

Now when I turn the bike on all the lights come up, but when I hit the starter nothing happens. Do you have the clutch pulled in ? Kill switch off ? Fuse blown ?

I'm a bit lost here now....

Keep at it. Youll get it.....

 

[posplayr]

How I did it

How I did it

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=999768#post999768

GoodLuck

 

[mostholycerebus]

As i said there is an easy way to do this. No need to go into the right hand switch so not really sure what you did.

Yeah, I thought so, but when i search old posts and read the stuff on basscliffs site everyone talks about wiring in to the kill switch. Ill check out the linked PDF.

 

[posplayr]

mostholycerebus

mostholycerebus

Yeah, I thought so, but when i search old posts and read the stuff on basscliffs site everyone talks about wiring in to the kill switch.

Well we are talking about the same wires orange /wire wire which is switched battery voltage from the ignition and OH switch (with two trips through the fuse box ).

Since the jumpering (orange/white to green/white) can occur in the headlamp, there is no reason to open up the kill switch unless you want to do the Starter Clucth mod which and can be done in addition to the approach I posted.

Jim

 

[mostholycerebus]

Since the jumpering (orange/white to green/white) can occur in the headlamp,

You completely lost me here. I opened the Kill switch just to find which wire is power to the switch. There seem to be an orange, and orange/white, and a yellow and all three go down to the headlight where a big snarl of wire becomes 6+ orange wires.

 

[posplayr]

He is the guts of an 80-81 GS750E kill switch. Orange comes from the ignition switch to the fuse box and is the input (+12V) to the kill switch.
The orange/white is the output of the kill switch (switched +12V) that powers the ignition. Yellow/Green powers the solenoid.

Here I have accessed the orange/white (switched +12v) at the place where the kill switch plugs into the harness. I'm attaching the orange/white to control the coil relay.

Pos