I'm an airbox believer

[tkent02]

I had two nearly identical GS1000s, one properly tuned for the pipe and pods, one with stock intake/exhaust.
One is very sedate, quiet, easy to ride, gentle, smooth, runs nice, very suitable for an old man. The other is seriously fun, lofts the front wheel easily, just as smooth, runs just as nicely, but scares me occasionally, feels way faster on top, and always gives me a big grin. Guess which one I sold?

 

[Sunburn]

WHy would you do that?? Honestly? Are you planning on racing it? Have you ever seen what happens to a street motor when Vstacks have been run on it for long periods of time? The airbox, and even pod filters do just that. They filter out the CRAP in the air and keep it out of your motor. I just dont know why anyone would run velocity stacks on an every day rider. If its something that you built to go ALL OUT on the track, or out in the middle of nowhere once in a while, fine, i guess, but not a regularly ridden bike. Just my opinion however.

LOL this guy i used to work with that ran in the street hot rod'n circles '80's used to laugh at velocity stacks and call them "dirt funnels" :lol:

 

[Road_Clam]

I know a lot of people have changed to pipe/pods/rejett, but I have always found it to be far too much of a pain in the ass for something that produces no notable improvement in throttle response or midrange performance.

Earl

Not to mention your fuel economy goes from very respectable, to "WTF, where's a gas station" !!

back in the late 80's I had one, and ONLY one bike with pods, and it was an '82 GS550, and granted I didn't know much at the time about street jetting at the time (only motocross bikes), but I tried, richer, leaner, and the bike just ran friggin horrible..... sold it 3 months later. After reading that awesome "Free Lunch" article, just comnfirms all my negitive thoughts on pods for the novice biker....

 

[hp1000s]

Not to mention your fuel economy goes from very respectable, to "WTF, where's a gas station" !!

back in the late 80's I had one, and ONLY one bike with pods, and it was an '82 GS550, and granted I didn't know much at the time about street jetting at the time (only motocross bikes), but I tried, richer, leaner, and the bike just ran friggin horrible..... sold it 3 months later. After reading that awesome "Free Lunch" article, just comnfirms all my negitive thoughts on pods for the novice biker....

I averaged a little over 37mpg on my trip...I'm running a 2.94 ratio sprokets, too.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Not to mention your fuel economy goes from very respectable, to "WTF, where's a gas station" !!

back in the late 80's I had one, and ONLY one bike with pods, and it was an '82 GS550, and granted I didn't know much at the time about street jetting at the time (only motocross bikes), but I tried, richer, leaner, and the bike just ran friggin horrible..... sold it 3 months later. After reading that awesome "Free Lunch" article, just comnfirms all my negitive thoughts on pods for the novice biker....

Jetted reasonably correctly, fuel economy doesnt suffer as much as one might think with the pods and pipe conversion. On a 2400 total mile trip i recently took, my WORST tank of gas was just over 37MPG, and my best was just over 50MPG. On a GS1100ES, pods, pipe, jet kit. Flogging the hell out of it part of the time in the mountains of WV.

This most recent WV trip, my WORST tank was 35mpg, two up, running well over the legal speed for most of the tank down WV33, with a bunk carb (one of my sync adjusters is stripped out, and, while i had it "fixed" for a bit, it became "unfixed" on the trip" AND, im actually a little bit rich on the pilot/needle transition.

Having said that, and having a bike that runs reasonably well with the pods/pipe/jet kit combo, if I HAD an airbox for this bike, it would be on it. There is a definate and noticeable difference in how the bike performs on any given day with the pods that is much less noticeable with an airbox. Me being the neurotic tuner that I am, I cant stand it. So, this winter, when the ES goes back to nearly stock, the box will go on it as well. OF course there will be other, slight modifications that will make it NOT as noticeable, but you'll have to wait and see for those...

 

[49er]

Having said that, and having a bike that runs reasonably well with the pods/pipe/jet kit combo, if I HAD an airbox for this bike, it would be on it. There is a definate and noticeable difference in how the bike performs on any given day with the pods that is much less noticeable with an airbox. Me being the neurotic tuner that I am, I cant stand it. So, this winter, when the ES goes back to nearly stock, the box will go on it as well. OF course there will be other, slight modifications that will make it NOT as noticeable, but you'll have to wait and see for those...

Good move.
In most instances, there's nothing stopping you from running the stock airbox and still getting the extra performance that most members seem to expect.
The trick is allowing more air into the box, at a controlled rate.

For those who must put larger carbs on, there are different sized airbox seals/v stacks to match the carbs up to the airbox. You'll need to enlarge the holes to match the larger seals though. Tuning is easier taking this route. However, using significantly larger carbs will result in biasing your torque and HP towards higher rpms, not ideal for street use.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Good move.
In most instances, there's nothing stopping you from running the stock airbox and still getting the extra performance that most members seem to expect.
The trick is allowing more air into the box, at a controlled rate.

For those who must put larger carbs on, there are different sized airbox seals/v stacks to match the carbs up to the airbox. You'll need to enlarge the holes to match the larger seals though. Tuning is easier taking this route. However, using significantly larger carbs will result in biasing your torque and HP towards higher rpms, not ideal for street use.

Aye...A "gentley" massaged head from Terry (headsbikesmopars) stock airbox with a KN drop in, and BS36SS carbies, 1150 cams degreed for a touch more punch in the mids, and on the pipe i havent decided...bone stock pipes (still flow rather well, albeit rather heavy as well) or a Yosh or my Supertrapp header... They all have their own unique sound, and for LOOKS sake, the stock system would make it a bit of a sleeper, if one could consider the GS11 a sleeper. But the headers are much lighter, and would put off that nice growl that lets everyone know you're a litrebike... Still hemming and hawing on that point.

 

[jabberjoe87]

its all jetting accordingly to the rest of the bike, i have pods on my bike and ride int he rain and bla bla bla and never have problems when it falls flat on its face thats the main jet being really lean when you crack that puppy open plus pods sound so cool when you roll on the throttle

 

[49er]

Aye...A "gentley" massaged head from Terry (headsbikesmopars) stock airbox with a KN drop in, and BS36SS carbies, 1150 cams degreed for a touch more punch in the mids, and on the pipe i havent decided...bone stock pipes (still flow rather well, albeit rather heavy as well) or a Yosh or my Supertrapp header... They all have their own unique sound, and for LOOKS sake, the stock system would make it a bit of a sleeper, if one could consider the GS11 a sleeper. But the headers are much lighter, and would put off that nice growl that lets everyone know you're a litrebike... Still hemming and hawing on that point.

Go with a good 4-1 pipe unless you're solely into bling!
Bottom end and lower mid range is sometimes better with the stock pipes, but it is possible to match them with stronger mid and top end performance with a correctly tuned 4-1. The weight saving is also significant in the power to weight equation. The other mods sound very reasonable, under the circumstances.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

No way pods, pipe and jetting will take a full second off a GS bikes 1/4 mile time. You'd be luck to get 1/2 second.

You're intitled to an opinion, like everyone else.
I never went to a track and verified what my best time would be when my bike was stock so there would be no point to go now. No other way to do a true test using my bike.
I can only give honest estimates and past experience to back me up but you've already made up your mind.
With completely stock bikes I believe a solid .2 or .3 can be shaved off simply by adjusting the cam timing better than how some 1000's came from the factory.
I can tell you a properly jetted '78/'79 GS1000 with quality pipe/K&N pods pulls a lot harder than the stocker. I've ridden them both. Back when my bike was new I had two friends that also had just bought new 1000's. We had the perfect test situation and we made lots of mistakes at first but we learned how to tune our bikes with these mods. One friend didn't want to play around with his bike until he saw mine beat a stocker by at least 100+' every time we raced.
There's at least one trusted member here (Bruce) that believes he shaved off a second and said so. I've raced several other bikes that were reported (per magazine test) to be approx' one second quicker than my models best time of 11.85 and won/lost some very close runs. I can't accelerate as well as those professional riders that did the 11.85 run but neither can most of the riders I've raced against, so using the magazine reports gives a fair idea of how much quicker the bike is. I've also heard many statements over the years suggesting the same performance increase but I can't prove it. I believe Kerker and V&H made similar claims for several brands/models but I don't know if they could prove it.
I could go on but without proof it wouldn't matter.
I believe one second off is possible. If in reality it's closer to .8 then so be it. I don't try to type thinking my words are under a microscope. "One second" is just part of a casual reply to someone. It's approximate or said in general. But I don't back down from it because I think it is possible and that many have achieved that result. I believe if Peewee Gleason (the 11.85 tester) rode my bike he could shave off one full second or very close to it.
And though I didn't elaborate before, complete re-tuning goes beyond properly jetting the pipe/pods, it includes adjusting the cam timing as I said and the ignition timing to work best with the new intake/exhaust changes. On the '78/'79 GS1000 this all makes quite a difference.

 

[Nessism]

I?ve posted this chart before only to have all the pod and header lovers come out of the woodwork lambasting it saying the intake system was ?not optimized? for use with a header. No doubt this is true but this data, which was assembled by respected UJM guru Joe Minton, clearly shows that power gains are not as dramatic as many people claim. Take off the airbox instead of just removing the lid, install pods and rejet appropriately, and there most likely is a few more hp available. No way you are going to get more than say a 10% boost over stock though, and no way that would result in taking .8 ? 1.0 seconds off the bikes ? mile time.

 

[blowerbike]

you have to figare in the lastest and greatest ST.3 jetkit.
you have to figare in the weight reduction from the exhaust.
20-25lbs is worth 1 tenth of a second plus the motorcycle reacts quicker.
you have to figare in that the motorcycle will 60' better.
what you pick up in 60' is more than that at the end of the traps.(if you pick up a tenth you will gain near 2 tenths give or take a couple hundredths).
if you haven't tuned and drag raced one these bikes or drag raced more than a couple times....you dont know for sure.
the graph you listed shows numbers from 25 years ago that mean something but dont tell the whole story today.
race a lean bike on a good day and it will perform badly.
race the same bike on the same day with a pipe and st.3 jetkit and you will see a major improvement.
i stand by my origanal statement earlier in this thread.
.8-1.0 of a second reduction is possible with a GS1100/1150 16v..

 

[Nessism]

I can accept that a drag racer could take a low performing stock sample, install a race header, pods/velocity stacks, jet kit, tweak the ignition timing to work with high octane fuel, tweak the cam timing, and in the end they could take a goodly bunch of tenths off the ? time. I seriously doubt Joe Lunchpail could achieve the same results though by installing a street header, pods and a DJ3 kit.

 

[blowerbike]

I can accept that a drag racer could take a low performing stock sample, install a race header, pods/velocity stacks, jet kit, tweak the ignition timing to work with high octane fuel, tweak the cam timing, and in the end they could take a goodly bunch of tenths off the ? time. I seriously doubt Joe Lunchpail could achieve the same results though by installing a street header, pods and a DJ3 kit.

lol,
i didnt know Joe was a member here:lol:

 

[rapidray]

There are also BIG differences between us "Tuners" here & the "Bolt On Specialists" that seem to not be able to figure out how to tune their bikes. There is a HUGE difference in Knowing what you're doing and Guessing! I am a member at another site where a LOT of people have problems tuning a specific model bike with pods vs airbox & I have NO problems with that same bike because I've done at least 20 of them & know what to do. The pipe comparison is NOT a good example because they were ALL tuned the same way instead of for each SPECIFIC exhaust! Tune EACH pipe optimumly & I GUARANTEE the results would be different than what Minton posted! Minton knows that too so it was an apples to oranges comparison instead of an HONEST evaluation of each system's potential! Ray.

 

[49er]

There are also BIG differences between us "Tuners" here & the "Bolt On Specialists" that seem to not be able to figure out how to tune their bikes. There is a HUGE difference in Knowing what you're doing and Guessing! I am a member at another site where a LOT of people have problems tuning a specific model bike with pods vs airbox & I have NO problems with that same bike because I've done at least 20 of them & know what to do. The pipe comparison is NOT a good example because they were ALL tuned the same way instead of for each SPECIFIC exhaust! Tune EACH pipe optimumly & I GUARANTEE the results would be different than what Minton posted! Minton knows that too so it was an apples to oranges comparison instead of an HONEST evaluation of each system's potential! Ray.

Valid points Ray. To compare apples with apples would take a huge amount of dyno time, but that's the only accurate way of making valid comparisions. Different pipes require different jetting to optimise performance, so using the same spec carb tuning for all, will not be a true gauge of their full potential.

I agree that Joe blow doesn't have the experience to achieve these optima, nor the dollars to endlessly pursue that elusive last HP.

I tend to align with Nessism though. It's very difficult for the average DIY tuner to get anywhere near a 1 second gain in performance. For some, if they gain over 1/2 second, they'll relay their results verbally as knocking off 1 sec (rounding it up). I've even had the experience of being given the incorrect timing card at a drag meet which would have made my time 1/2 sec quicker than my true time. With computerised timing, that should'nt happen now.

At the end of the day, if you throw enough dollars at it, you can make additional gains that the average tuner never gets to know/hear about.

 

[srsupertrap]

Some Dated Figures

Some Dated Figures

No way pods, pipe and jetting will take a full second off a GS bikes 1/4 mile time. You'd be luck to get 1/2 second.

Here are some stock GS1000 1/4 mile numbers as I recall:

Cycle Mag 1978 GS1000C 11.89 @ 113.35
Cycle Mag 1979 GS1000EN 12.44 @ 108.43

Here is the link to the Motorcyclist Dec 1984 Project GS1000 article written by, you guessed it Joe Minton. Here is some of the mods he/they did for this project:

1) Yoshimura 1085 kit CR 11.2:1 (Fairly high for street)
2) VHR "Set up" Mikuni VM29's Smoothbore w K&N's
3) Vance & Hines 4 into 1
4) Dyna S Ignition
5) KV Coils & Wires
5) Degreed Cams 104/106
6) Metzeler ME99 Rear

Resulting 1/4 time on "an extremely slippery dragstrip": 11.72 @ 119
Top Gear roll on after 200 yards: 85.0 mph (This number is equivalent to a 1984 Yamaha FJ1100 but less than 1984/85 GS1150)

This may not settle anything because Joe Minton's comment about the airbox was, "The GS1000 airbox is restrictive and should be replaced if you want to get the most out of your engine" I would GUESS a top speed in the range of 119-122 mph translates into low 11 or high 10 sec ET under ideal conditions.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0zwjtwfzbft

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I can accept that a drag racer could take a low performing stock sample, install a race header, pods/velocity stacks, jet kit, tweak the ignition timing to work with high octane fuel, tweak the cam timing, and in the end they could take a goodly bunch of tenths off the ? time. I seriously doubt Joe Lunchpail could achieve the same results though by installing a street header, pods and a DJ3 kit.

Ed, sorry if I struck a nerve by saying what I believe.
If I'm wrong, fine. If I'm not, fine. Not that big a deal.
That chart is pretty much useless in this case. And factoring in the tuning abilities of the owner just adds more uncertainty. And the Motorcyclist magazine project bike test would only matter if Peewee Gleason himself ran the project bike and a stocker at the same time. He'd also have to lose the 1085 kit and the 29's.
I copied the project bike except for the 29's. Many years ago I had a quick run against a 1000 with my mods and the 29's. Only other difference was the other rider was a good 20 lbs lighter. We only went through the first 3 gears but he easily jumped in front. I was impressed and my ego hurt a bit. It seemed like we had similar skills so I believe the 29's were the difference. I believe the project bike would be a little quicker than just 1 second over a stocker if tested by the same rider and under the same conditions. So the Motorcyclist times are useless too for proving anything.

 

[skip]

thought i would add some gas to the fire. My own experience . stock 1985 GS1150 these numbers are from my memories I did not save all my time slips way back then. 11.0 something at 122 something. Next the same GS with Vance and Hines megaphone, Fours and More jet kit, k&n filters and Dyna coils for about 10.85 @ 124ish. Up next came 38 flat slides and the ET dropped to 10.75 and the mph only went up two to about 126 . Then came the rest of the puzzle that put it all together. 1229 kit, mild street porting, cam motion g4 cams, and Dyna S ignition. Now the whole package worked and the ET fell into the 10.45 range with a best of 10.36 @ 134 I was not inexperienced at drag racing and had many runs under my belt before the 1150 ever saw the track. The bike ran with no wheelie bars and the stock swing arm and 130 bias tire. all those mods and I still did not see a full second increase! It was not till I added nitrous that i saw a full second increase over stock in the 1/4 . Now granted my bike was limited due to the stock tire size and stock swing arm. But for what its worth I have never seen anyone pick up a full second with just bolt on performance enhancers discounting a turbo, supercharger or nitrous.

 

[49er]

thought i would add some gas to the fire. My own experience . stock 1985 GS1150 these numbers are from my memories I did not save all my time slips way back then. 11.0 something at 122 something. Next the same GS with Vance and Hines megaphone, Fours and More jet kit, k&n filters and Dyna coils for about 10.85 @ 124ish. Up next came 38 flat slides and the ET dropped to 10.75 and the mph only went up two to about 126 . Then came the rest of the puzzle that put it all together. 1229 kit, mild street porting, cam motion g4 cams, and Dyna S ignition. Now the whole package worked and the ET fell into the 10.45 range with a best of 10.36 @ 134 I was not inexperienced at drag racing and had many runs under my belt before the 1150 ever saw the track. The bike ran with no wheelie bars and the stock swing arm and 130 bias tire. all those mods and I still did not see a full second increase! It was not till I added nitrous that i saw a full second increase over stock in the 1/4 . Now granted my bike was limited due to the stock tire size and stock swing arm. But for what its worth I have never seen anyone pick up a full second with just bolt on performance enhancers discounting a turbo, supercharger or nitrous.

Thanks Skip. Nice to get some quantitative evidence.

There will be those out there who will say that Suzuki went a little over the top with their stock 1150 cams for road use anyway. Perhaps if they were more user friendly, it would have been possible to better the stock 1/4 time by a full second with bolt on mods. I doubt that too from my personal experience on the strip. Talk is cheap when it comes to times and HP!!!!