Intermittent Electrical Issue

[rputney01]

Over the last 4 days, my bike just goes dead while it is running. The bike dies, all indicator lights go dead, etc. There is no pattern to when it happens. Initially, it happened at a stop light. I pushed it out of traffic, switched it on and off a couple of times, then suddenly got indicator lights and it started. The next time, it happened at about 50 mph in 4th gear. I pulled in the clutch to keep rolling, bump started it and it groaned and then came back to life. This morning, I rode about 6 miles, stopped for gas and it wouldn't restart. Again, switched on and off 3-4 times and eventually got indicator lights and it started.

The battery is 3 months old and holds at about 14.3 volts cold. I've checked the charging system and all seems well. New connectors and cables from the battery to the starter and to the fuse box, all connections seem to check out when it is running. No blown fuses and all hot connections coming out of the fuse box test to 11.8 or more volts.

I'm looking for advice on where to look next. About the only thing I haven't replaced is the starter switch. Could that be the issue? Would a bad ground somewhere cause an intermittent issue like this?

 

[Steve]

Yes, a bad ground could definitely do that, but so could a bad 'hot' wire. Look at the connectors that feed your fuse box. If they look OK, look at the fuse box itself. It is not uncommon for connections in the back of the fuse box to do funny things when they warm up.

.

 

[rputney01]

Yes, a bad ground could definitely do that, but so could a bad 'hot' wire. Look at the connectors that feed your fuse box. If they look OK, look at the fuse box itself. It is not uncommon for connections in the back of the fuse box to do funny things when they warm up.

.

I cleaned all the connectors and the wires check within a tenth of a volt going into and coming out of the fuse box. I checked the circuit to the ignition switch and it also checks out okay. I'll keep looking.

 

[rustybronco]

The battery is 3 months old and holds at about 14.3 volts cold.

That alone would make me pause and think the battery could be the root cause. could you borrow one to use as a substitute?

re-measure the battery voltage when charged fully. then let it set for an hour or two and re-measure.

hopefully your not trying to measure battery voltage, while on the charger...

 

[rputney01]

It had been on a battery tender, but I checked the voltage after I rode it. I just went back out and checked it again. It checked at 13.7 volts and I haven't ridden it since about 10:00 this morning. I just started it again, no problem. The voltage at the battery at idle is about 12.3 and it runs up to about 16 volts at 3k rpm, then holds there until it idles back down. I checked it again after about 10 minutes and it seems to be holding now at about 13.7.

I'm still learning. What about that voltage level would lead you to believe that it could be the problem?

Thanks.

 

[tas850g]

not sure how this might relate but 16 vdc seems way too high at 3k rpms.

 

[terrylee]

My thought would be the ign. switch itself. If you turn key off and on a few times and then it starts that would make me think bad ign. switch. But just my guess. Terrylee.

 

[rustybronco]

It had been on a battery tender, but I checked the voltage after I rode it. I just went back out and checked it again. It checked at 13.7 volts and I haven't ridden it since about 10:00 this morning. I just started it again, no problem. The voltage at the battery at idle is about 12.3 and it runs up to about 16 volts at 3k rpm, then holds there until it idles back down. I checked it again after about 10 minutes and it seems to be holding now at about 13.7.

I'm still learning. What about that voltage level would lead you to believe that it could be the problem?

Thanks.

Well, "about" 16 volts a 3k rpms is way to high!!!!!
time for the stator pages as revised by Mr. Pos... http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/Stator_Papers_Phase A.pdf
one step at a time...

 

[rputney01]

time for the stator pages as revised by Mr. Pos... ...

Heavy sigh! I needed some light reading for this evening anyway.

Just out of curiousity, what about the battery voltage would cause everything to shut down without blowing a fuse?

This electrical stuff is a challenge for me.

 

[rputney01]

Okay, some additional info. I have a Duaneage Honda RR on the bike and have had since this spring. The negative (green) is wired directly to the negative battery post. Thus, no voltage drop on the negative side. On the positive, I get .02 drop from the RR to the positive post. The black sense wire is connected to the orange/green wire for the brake light.

Is the RR the problem? Should I wire an additional negative from the RR bolt to the negative? Is the connection for the sense wire an issue?

 

[rustybronco]

Just out of curiousity, what about the battery voltage would cause everything to shut down without blowing a fuse?

Most likely a different issue than the high charging system voltage you are seeing.
it's possible it could be a grounding issue common to both, or maybe separate grounding issues.
had you disconnected anything else before or while changing the battery?

 

[rputney01]

Most likely a different issue than the high charging system voltage you are seeing.
it's possible it could be a grounding issue common to both, or maybe separate grounding issues.
had you disconnected anything else before or while changing the battery?

No. I put the Honda RR in back in March and the battery in June. I also put in new positive and negative battery cables since the old ones were a bit ragged.

 

[rustybronco]

Okay, some additional info. I have a Duaneage Honda RR on the bike and have had since this spring. The negative (green) is wired directly to the negative battery post. Thus, no voltage drop on the negative side. On the positive, I get .02 drop from the RR to the positive post. The black sense wire is connected to the orange/green wire for the brake light.

Is the RR the problem? Should I wire an additional negative from the RR bolt to the negative? Is the connection for the sense wire an issue?

In addition to the pages linked, you should check the voltage at that orange/green wire (I don't have a wiring diag in front of me). does it have voltage with the key on? what is that voltage compared to the battery +?

 

[rputney01]

In addition to the pages linked, you should check the voltage at that orange/green wire (I don't have a wiring diag in front of me). does it have voltage with the key on? what is that voltage compared to the battery +?

There is a 2 volt drop between the battery + and the orange/green wire that is connected to the sense wire without the bike running, and a 1.8 volt drop when it is running. This wire is coming directly from the fuse block. Would that explain the overcharging because the sense wire isn't picking up the true voltage? If so, can I resolve this by connecting the sense wire to a different switched circuit?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[rustybronco]

There is a 2 volt drop between the battery + and the orange/green wire that is connected to the sense wire without the bike running, and a 1.8 volt drop when it is running. This wire is coming directly from the fuse block. Would that explain the overcharging because the sense wire isn't picking up the true voltage? If so, can I resolve this by connecting the sense wire to a different switched circuit?

Thanks,
Bob

It would be best to resolve the voltage difference so it will charge properly, but yes you can connect it elsewhere.

 

[rputney01]

It would be best to resolve the voltage difference so it will charge properly, but yes you can connect it elsewhere.

The fuse block was a new Suzuki part about 18 months ago. I'll have to do some additional investigation in the morning, I guess. Thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

 

[argonsagas]

On first reading this I thought of an R/R fault or a dirty fuse block

Having read further, I feel sure that the R-R is the problem

Your sense wire is connected to a dead circuit, instead of a live one and it may be overheating, then cutting out when overloaded.

The brake circuit only comes alive when the brakes are ON. Disconnect that lead and re-connect it to the tail light and see what happens.

 

[scrapper]

I'm not a mechanic, but mine was doing that and I put a ground wire from the starter relay to the battery. It would die when I pulled on the battery box. The head light would not come on and the turn signals would not light. I wiggled the battery box got sparks and then everything worked after installing a jumper wire. Good luck with your problems.

 

[tas850g]

It may be difficult to find a live wire with around 12 or 12+ volts for the sense wire if there is that much of a voltage drop. You could be searching for a while.

There is little drain from the battery if you attach the sense wire to the positive pole of the battery just to determine if the r/r is working properly. I've tracked this over 5 days and as i don't recall exactly how much of a drop. It was maybe a volt and that was with not riding the back for that time period.

For simplicity, just hook up the sense wire to the (+) and worry about that later.

 

[lucabond]

If you do the coil mod you can connect the sence wire that way. Also
spray some contact cleaner into the key switch and work the key back and forth it try and clean the contacts in the switch. Good luck