Never Seize and aluminum and SS

[jknappsax]

I just dropped my oil pan to check if the sump screen was gunked up, and the stupid Philips head screws , if not seized, are very tight. I figure, no problem, just use an impact driver. But no, with the bike on the centerstand and the front jacked as high as it will go, there's still not enough height to get any force from the swing of a hammer. I got a motorcycle lift, but with the exhaust headers in place (I already removed the mufflers, clamps, etc.) there is no place to jack on the frame. as the pipes run BELOW the frame. I think I can fabricate blocks to go between the pipes fot the jack to support the frame, but as far as cleaning the sump, which the manual calls for cleaning every other oil change, I was thinking of using Never Seize on the screws (and maybe changing to Allen head bolts) so I can avoid all this silliness if I need to do this again. Also, if it turns out I need to pull the pipes to jack the frame (carefully, using a little heat and Kroil penetrating oil), I was planning on using Never Seize on the exhaust bolts.
Now for the $64k question, since Never Seize is heavily zinc, does anyone see a problem with the tiny bit in the threads of the screws that hold the the sump screen in, INSIDE the oil sump? How about in the exhaust bolts? Any opinons? Sorry this post is so long, but the lengths you have to go to do an items that Suzuki calls for every OTHER oil change needs to be made easier. BTW, it's really difficult to drop the oil pan without removing the exhaust bolts, but this site is littered with horror stories about trying to remove exhaust bolts that may have been undisturbed and left to electrolysis for 20-some years, so I was trying to avoid that for now. TIA for any advice.

 

[Billy Ricks]

I just dropped my oil pan to check if the sump screen was gunked up, and the stupid Philips head screws , if not seized, are very tight. I figure, no problem, just use an impact driver. But no, with the bike on the centerstand and the front jacked as high as it will go, there's still not enough height to get any force from the swing of a hammer. I got a motorcycle lift, but with the exhaust headers in place (I already removed the mufflers, clamps, etc.) there is no place to jack on the frame. as the pipes run BELOW the frame. I think I can fabricate blocks to go between the pipes fot the jack to support the frame, but as far as cleaning the sump, which the manual calls for cleaning every other oil change, I was thinking of using Never Seize on the screws (and maybe changing to Allen head bolts) so I can avoid all this silliness if I need to do this again. Also, if it turns out I need to pull the pipes to jack the frame (carefully, using a little heat and Kroil penetrating oil), I was planning on using Never Seize on the exhaust bolts.
Now for the $64k question, since Never Seize is heavily zinc, does anyone see a problem with the tiny bit in the threads of the screws that hold the the sump screen in, INSIDE the oil sump? How about in the exhaust bolts? Any opinons? Sorry this post is so long, but the lengths you have to go to do an items that Suzuki calls for every OTHER oil change needs to be made easier. BTW, it's really difficult to drop the oil pan without removing the exhaust bolts, but this site is littered with horror stories about trying to remove exhaust bolts that may have been undisturbed and left to electrolysis for 20-some years, so I was trying to avoid that for now. TIA for any advice.

I doubt you'll need it on the screen, they will probably always have a coat of oil on them anyway due to location. Anything on the outside of the engine that doesn't need Loktite will benefit from a coat of anti-sieze, including the exhaust bolts.

 

[jknappsax]

Thanks, Billy. BTW, is "The edge of God's country" Potter County, PA?

 

[BRycraft]

Anti-Seize

Anti-Seize

I have used antiseize anywhere I have had the need to prevent fasteners from getting froze in the future and have never had a problem. The stuff I use is Hi-Temp C-200, its for aviation use where I have used it in exhaust bolts on jet engines that use stainless steel as well as other metals, so I can't see why it would be a problem unless the mfg specificallys prohibits the use to use it where you describe. However it does recommend a very very thin application, a little goes a long way. I use it on all my spark plugs, & even the valve cover bolts without ever having a problem. If you use the correct amount and dont over apply it wont squeeze out when tightened and contaminate the oil, and never use it with loc-tite ever.
Good Luck
Bill

 

[Billy Ricks]

Thanks, Billy. BTW, is "The edge of God's country" Potter County, PA?

Actually it's what the locals call the Hill Country outside San Antonio, TX.

 

[quakeholio]

The anti seize on the exhaust sounds good. Worth a try.

God loves man, I can tell because he guided us to make lock-tight and anti seize. What more proff do you need?

 

[Guest]

old post, new question, regarding anti-seize vs. loctite. specifically, when to use which. i know anti-seize on the carb boots, but dont they get vibration too? and on the valve cover, i have now heard people using both. not at the same time, but one or the other. so how does a newb self-mechanic like me sort it out?

greg

 

[Guest]

old post, new question, regarding anti-seize vs. loctite. specifically, when to use which. i know anti-seize on the carb boots, but dont they get vibration too? and on the valve cover, i have now heard people using both. not at the same time, but one or the other. so how does a newb self-mechanic like me sort it out?

greg

no need for loctite on the valve cover
i use anti seize and periodically check the bolts for tightness. you want them to be easily removable for servicing and they need not be torqued down heavily
vibration is not a problem with anti seize as you do still tighten the bolts, thats what holds them, not loctite
loctite is used for critical applications within the engine as an extra precaution against screws coming undone in an area you're not likely to visit for a 100k kms (such as inside the cranckases)

regards your previous question, does the manual not call for loctite for the oil filter screen? (just from memory. i might be wrong [-o<)

 

[Guest]

oh, i will be using a real gasket on the valve cover, so v-e-r-y light torque...does this matter?

 

[bwringer]

oh, i will be using a real gasket on the valve cover, so v-e-r-y light torque...does this matter?

Even with a RealGasket, you don't need Loctite.

Really.

 

[Guest]

thanks guys!

 

[Guest]

Where does Suzuki say to clean the sump every other oil change?

 

[Guest]

Where does Suzuki say to clean the sump every other oil change?

yea, i don't seem to remember that either - but do remember loctite on the oil screen screws :?

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

The E24 GSX1100 service manual Section 2-1 Periodic Maintenance Chart - Engine has the oil sump filter "clean" listed for every 6000 miles. For me thats each third oil and filter change as I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles.

 

[Guest]

The E24 GSX1100 service manual Section 2-1 Periodic Maintenance Chart - Engine has the oil sump filter "clean" listed for every 6000 miles. For me thats each third oil and filter change as I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles.

ooops, better check my service manual again...

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

I had the same problem with the sump filter screws when I first bought my 1100, to get the screws out I used a good quality cold chisel and tapped them out (not cut off) with a hammer, this was done with the bike on the centre stand and the pipes off, so access should be fine on yours.

Replaced the screws with stainless steel allen head bolts, what a great invention they are!

I change the engine oil and filter every 2000 miles (two thousand not twenty thousand) and to access the filter the exhaust system has to come off. So the sump is easy to get at in my case when the sump filter needs to be cleaned. There is also a very good reason to drop the sump on a regular maintenance program and you will not find this one in many service manuals. The dark grey/black deposits that can be seen on the sump plate is clutch dust. This sludge is off the clutch plates and not all of it is captured by the oil filter, it is abrasive and is not good to have circulating around the engine. Just wash it off with a paint brush and degreaser, rinse and dry before replacing it and the sump gasket.

I don't use anti-seize on the sump filter bolts and they come out fine each time.

The header bolts do have anti -seize, Hi-Temp C5-A Anti-Seize Lubricant part number 521008. Made in the USA by Fel-Pro Incorporated/Skokie IL 60076. It is a copper based product and its great, the header bolts have been coming out every 2000 miles for the last 22 years on this machine. Sorry about the length of this reply I hope it is of help.

 

[Guest]

no worries, mate :-D
i rebuilt my engine at 95000 kms and am happy to report that the oil screen was clean as was the sump, no nasty deposits, sludge, burnt oil, metal particles, etc \\/
looking at the oil screen screws that looked 100% new i'd think that that screen has never ever been removed :shock: prior to my rebuild

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Hi there psyguy good to have a neighbour, I just checked the Suzi GS1000 manual and it lists the filter sump clean at 6000 miles as well. Its listed in the chart at the start of Section 3 in that one, catch ya later mate.

 

[Guest]

The E24 GSX1100 service manual Section 2-1 Periodic Maintenance Chart - Engine has the oil sump filter "clean" listed for every 6000 miles. For me thats each third oil and filter change as I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles.

I have one Service Manual, for the GS650G. Its chart says nothing about cleaning the sump. I checked the .pdf of the GS850G manual, and it also says nothing about cleaning the sump. I wonder if cleaning the sump is really a good idea. When you clean the sump, do you find much crud to remove? Is this like the requirement to change brake hoses every two years? Does anyone actually do that? Mercedes used to say that every time new tires were mounted, the rims (steel in those days) should be scraped and repainted.

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Yeah I agree with you about the brake hoses, that is a bit over the top, if the hoses were to degrade at that rate there would be bikes wrapped around trees, power poles and everything else at intersections all over the world. The sump filter clean and check on the sump pan is something else. There are factors that contribute to the gunge in the sump, oil quality, regular oil/filter change, type of riding eg stop start heavy traffic compared to long runs, and riding style. Hard launching off the start, high rev down gear changing all combine to generate wear on the plates to a different degee. Your right, I've seen sump pans that are spotless when they come off and others with the gunge so thick it had to be scrapped off then washed. Maybe it's not needed in all cases, but it doesn't hurt to check. I would like to keep the Kat running for many years to come so I don't mind the little extra care here and there even if it seems unnessasary. With over 400,000km on the GS1100G engine and still going well with high even compression from each cylinder I am happy with the result, cheers.