new bikes, your opinion on current engine configuration trends

[Ronbayless]

there are so many cool bikes by every .manufacturer nowdays. The big 4 finally decided to stop trying to beat harley in the v twin game. the parallel twin reminds me of when I first started riding in 1972. I rode a new yamaha 350 r5c. a fun parallel twin 2 stroke kickstart only. It was a screamer, fun to ride and lean. now over 50 years later its back to that design. the engines are narrower, easier to build, meet epa better, and perform better than the aircooled vtwins of today. But nearly every metric cruiser is liquid cooled. Our beloved gs bikes are dinosaurs. It would be easier to buy a liquid cooled or even aircooled bandit than it is to completely reengineer the standard gs like I see done so much on this forum. But my 850, 1100, and 1000 that I have owned have the look I want, the bandit does not.Suzukis only cruiser is the m109 with the big fat rear tire. I never liked the big tire. The c50 was dropped briefly then brought back out. The new vstrom 800 I think has an engine for a great cruiser eventually. china is trying to monopolize and take over the metric market.They attempt to make their brand the only one easily available in america. example is c moto. I wish suzuki would folow kawasaki. The retro 650 and 1000 bikes have the best of both worlds,old and new combined. triumph has always done their own thing with the 3 cylinders. Now yamah has their 3 cylinder line.I think it was a design that met epa regs. Riding a gs to me is like owning a 57 chevy, but with a high performance engine. My current project is trying to resurrect a 79 850. I might have $3000 in it when I am done. And it will outperform a $56,000 limited edition ultra classic.

 

[Burque73]

I've enjoyed looking at my GS bikes nearly as much as riding them, but man, that's a lofty performance goal with your $3k 850 rebuild. Best of luck to you.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Hmmmmn, not sure why you are comparing a standard to a touring bike, but let's say you compared it to a 117 Street Glide. I think you have a lot of work cut out for you, and "outperform?" How? 0-60? Probably not. Quarter mile? Maybe barely? Braking? No. Cornering? Possibly. Riding across country? Not remotely.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

The huge flaw with the GS engines is the stater location inside the side case, plus weak rectifiers. Runner up: the single use fiber gaskets.
Those problems were resolved on the SACS engines.
The new parallel twins are impressive, and have become more popular than the 600cc i4 sport bikes.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

As for cool engine configurations, I am very much enamored of the inline 6 BMW are using in the K1600.

 

[rphillips]

I'm with you B B, the power is what I'm accustomed to & the sound of a 4 into 1 (especially a Yoshimura) is music to my ears. Anywhere I am, if I hear a 4 into 1 I just stand there & listen till it's completely out of hearing... Love it, even better than the old 6 into 1 that I had on my KZ1300 back in the day. OOhhh so sweet.

 

[Ronbayless]

my comparison the the 56,000 dollar ultra classic is this. for 56k you expect a longlife engine, seldom if ever requiring repair.routine maintenance should suffice. the milwaukee 8 nd the evo arethe only good harley engines in my opinion. so to be comfortably seated, minimal vibration, eas of maintenance, good handling and braking after progressive spring upgrades, no complicated electrics to break, and yes the stator location and cheap quality gaskets are an issue, but not a 50,000 dollar difference in quality. My gs 1000 I no longer have would outrun anything harley makes except the 160 mph capable fx114. and its ugly. I put forward controls on my gs 1000. I could sit on the stock seat for 4 hours and be comfortable. That is what I mean by outperform. I just now found out bmw 1600 was a 6 cylinder.They are coming out with a 2000 cc motor. In independent surveys of dependability, rider satisfaction after 4 years ownership bmw and ducati brought up the rear. honda,yamaha, kawasaki, suzuki were in places 1 thru 4, each close to one another in points.a great condition gs would be better for me if I had the choice of them or a harley. I have a vstar 650 that is troublefree. If I could buy a new bike it would probably be the retro kz 1000 rs. But I cant do that.I wonder what other bikes or brands the gs people here ride.

 

[dpep]

It seems to me you are commingling two separate issues--one being engine configuration and the other being prestige brand pricing.

 

[Rob S.]

...the sound of a 4 into 1...is music to my ears. Anywhere I am, if I hear a 4 into 1 I just stand there & listen till it's completely out of hearing...

You and me both, brother. I live near a few highways where I can hear them winding out all night. Whether it's two or ten of them, they make such beautiful music riding together.

 

[Ccitis]

I never liked I4s. That was because I had a 600, and it just did not have the power down low. I rode my old mans Concours 14, and sure it had all the power, but no character in the motor. I discovered OLD I4s... they have character and the go... I have a XS11 and a GS1100E. But I don't think it is my fav. My Triumph twin is a great motor, so is my Triumph triple... the key is to have a garage full so I can hop on whatever I feel like that day... on the Suzuki though... boy is she hard to ride slow.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

my comparison the the 56,000 dollar ultra classic is this. for 56k you expect a longlife engine, seldom if ever requiring repair.routine maintenance should suffice. the milwaukee 8 nd the evo arethe only good harley engines in my opinion. so to be comfortably seated, minimal vibration, eas of maintenance, good handling and braking after progressive spring upgrades, no complicated electrics to break, and yes the stator location and cheap quality gaskets are an issue, but not a 50,000 dollar difference in quality. My gs 1000 I no longer have would outrun anything harley makes except the 160 mph capable fx114. and its ugly. I put forward controls on my gs 1000. I could sit on the stock seat for 4 hours and be comfortable. That is what I mean by outperform. I just now found out bmw 1600 was a 6 cylinder.They are coming out with a 2000 cc motor. In independent surveys of dependability, rider satisfaction after 4 years ownership bmw and ducati brought up the rear. honda,yamaha, kawasaki, suzuki were in places 1 thru 4, each close to one another in points.a great condition gs would be better for me if I had the choice of them or a harley. I have a vstar 650 that is troublefree. If I could buy a new bike it would probably be the retro kz 1000 rs. But I cant do that.I wonder what other bikes or brands the gs people here ride.

Along with what Don mentioned, I think you are confusing cost and reliability. No-one buys a Ferrari with the expectation it is going to be maintenance free.

As for outrunning any Harley, if your GS1000 was bone stock, it would not outrun several Harleys 0-60 or through the quarter mile. At best, it would be tied with a VRod, and both the XR1200 and a few of the Screamin Eagle Dyna based bikes would hang right with it, As for 4 hour ride comfort, scads of Harleys that would be practically neck in neck with the old suzuki in 0-60 or quarter miles would comfortable for twice as long as your GS.

Take a Street Glide with the 117, give it a Stage I tune, and though you might edge it out in a quarter mile shootout, you would be shocked at how the M8 moves that bike, and you would be amazed at how stable and comfortable it is as well as at its braking and handling. Harley quality has been high since the Evo motors debuted. It took a little dip with the early TC motors, but the M8 seems to be holding up well. As for vibration, I'm thinking you haven't ridden a TC or M8 powered bike. It disappears off idle.

You wonder what other folks here ride? I had both a GS1150ES and a Bandit1200 for years. These days, I ride a Harley, a BMW, and am (slowly) rebuilding an old CB900f.

 

[Ccitis]

My daily is a Honda CBF, as you can see it's the same configuration as our old GS'.I'd like to sell it and try a Triumph though. I had a 1250 Bandit and liked it as well. The Honda is a bit better quality than the Bandit but I preferred the Bandit as it was a bit more roomy for me.

As a big Triumph fan, and owner of two... I think you would like one!

 

[Spiff]

I never liked I4s. That was because I had a 600, and it just did not have the power down low. I rode my old mans Concours 14, and sure it had all the power, but no character in the motor. I discovered OLD I4s... they have character and the go... I have a XS11 and a GS1100E. But I don't think it is my fav. My Triumph twin is a great motor, so is my Triumph triple... the key is to have a garage full so I can hop on whatever I feel like that day... on the Suzuki though... boy is she hard to ride slow.

Character is definately a thing, I had a 05 intruder 800, and then an SV1000S and since the sv1000 I've loved those v twins and their low end grunt. Somewhat vibey sure, but that's character I guess. I've since tried other "modern" I4's and they all go fast but they just lack "character", they're so smooth it's almost boring. After selling the SV I've missed that deeply, then last year I bought a VFR800 5th gen and that first test ride definately brought back the happy feelings of the SV, the noise, the slightly vibey feel.
I have yet to try a modern paralell twin but I suspect it might tickle those same feelings, perhaps the new gsx8r is the spiritual successor to the sv1000

 

[GS1150Pilot]

The SV1000 motor was fabulous.

 

[Nessism]

Midsize parallel twins have exploded in the marketplace over the last decade or so. They are lightweight, compact, have plenty of power for most sane uses, cheaper to build, and emit lower emissions. Yamaha, with their 270 degree crank FZ/MT-07 opened the floodgates, since this configuration added a good bit of "character" to the engine. "Midsize" has expanded all the way to 900cc+ these days, since these engines can be small, physically. They are also great in adventure bikes for all the reasons previously mentioned. If I wasn't so old these days, I'd seriously consider one of the new Suzuki 800's. From everything I've read, they have the best engine in the class. Can't say I like the styling, though.

 

[rphillips]

The I4's can be tuned for more low end grunt, Suzuki did this with the GSX1100G, it had the GSXR eng, but tuned different for more low end (torque) and less high end power (HP). I also know, and have done it, changing the cam timing changes where the power is a lot. I ended up with the cam timing set on my GS1100E's where when riding along in 5th gear I would back off the throttle and pull up on the shifter to be sure I was in 5th, it pulled like it originally would have in 4th.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Midsize parallel twins have exploded in the marketplace over the last decade or so. They are lightweight, compact, have plenty of power for most sane uses, cheaper to build, and emit lower emissions. Yamaha, with their 270 degree crank FZ/MT-07 opened the floodgates, since this configuration added a good bit of "character" to the engine. "Midsize" has expanded all the way to 900cc+ these days, since these engines can be small, physically. They are also great in adventure bikes for all the reasons previously mentioned. If I wasn't so old these days, I'd seriously consider one of the new Suzuki 800's. From everything I've read, they have the best engine in the class. Can't say I like the styling, though.

I would definitely consider a Triumph T120 or a Tenere 1200.

 

[wyly]

My gf may be coming to live with me(I'm not sure yet), so two up riding maybe be coming next year. My CBX is suitable but Id rather not take it on day rides into the mountains, my GS1150efe has been heavily modified and is a solo ride only now.

Now Im thinking of something with ample torque for two up riding and comfortable for a pillion. Triumph 1200 Speed Twin? I've done test rides solo it was nice easy to ride with plenty of torque, has anyone ridden two up on it?

 

[Jedz123]

I would definitely consider a Triumph T120 .

I've had the privilege of riding a lot of bikes over the years—nearly 60 bikes. Each one brought something different to the table, but I can confidently say that the new 1200 Triumph inline twins are by far the best engines you can buy new today. I’ve clocked 4,000 miles on my Scrambler 1200 XE with the 1200 HP engine, and I've put 120,000 miles on my T120 with the 1200 HT engine. IMO both these bikes offer a true standard upright ride and feel most like a classic big block I-4 Suzuki GS in ride character and power.

Here’s the nitty gritty on these engines .

1200 HP Engine (High Power)

• Compression Ratio: 11:1
• Power: 100 horsepower at 7,500 rpm
• Torque: 83 lb-ft at 4,250 rpm
• Bikes Found In: Scrambler 1200, Thruxton, Speed Twin

This engine is a gem, especially if you love a bike that can rev out a bit more nicely but still has plenty of grunt in the mid-range where you need it. Whether you’re slicing through corners or cruising on the highway, the 1200 HP delivers power consistently and effortlessly. The engine feels alive, responsive, and eager, making it an absolute blast to ride. Allot more pep and power but personality and predictable power. Despite not making as much low end torque as the HT it still packs a wallop above 3K RPM.


1200 HT Engine (High Torque)

• Compression Ratio: 10:1
• Power: 79 horsepower at 6,550 rpm
• Torque: 77.4 lb-ft at 3,500 rpm
• Bikes Found In: Bonneville T120, Speedmaster, Bobber

Now the 1200 HT is no slouch either. While it doesn't have the same top-end power as the HP, it makes up for it with a torque-rich delivery that’s perfect for relaxed cruising, long tours and two-up riding. The power comes on early and strong, making the HT feel like it’s pulling hard from the moment you twist the throttle. It is exceptionally reliable (once you go on a better mainatence schedule) .


Similarities Between the Two


Both engines share a lot of DNA:

• Displacement: 1,200 cc
• Configuration: Water-cooled, single overhead camshaft, 8 valve, parallel twin cylinder with a 270? crank
• Bore and Stroke: 97.6 mm ? 80.0 mm
• Transmission: Six-speed manual with a wet multi-plate assist clutch and X-ring chain
• Fuel Injection: Twin 44mm TBs with Multipoint Keihin sequential electronic fuel injection
• Fuel Economy: 50-55 MPG consistently
• Charging System: 560 Watt Denso conventional 3 leg stator and flywheel.
• Valve check intervals: 20K miles - Shim over bucket (No cam removal required for shim swaps as the rocker comes out.

My Experience

After 120,000 miles on the T120, I can tell you that this engine has been rock solid after the initial 20,000 miles. It’s been my go-to for weekend rides and sunny-day commutes as of recent but I have pyut several +1000 mile days on the bike. Chains last about 20/25K miles. The HT engine delivers a smooth, torquey ride that’s perfect for laid-back cruising, long distance touring but also if you want to get a bit spunky in the twisties. On the other hand, the HP engine in my Scrambler 1200 XE is an absolute ripper. The power difference is quite noticeable, and the bike feels lighter and more agile, weighing in at 455 pounds compared to the T120’s 520 pounds. However the engine is noticeably louder intake wise and will got to 8K RPM very fast where the Bonneville is Happy under 7K RPM.

If I could only keep one, the HP would be my choice, but I’m glad I can enjoy both. The HP is punchy, rev-happy, and a ton of fun in the twisties with torque every where above 4K RPM, while the HT is a dependable, torquey powerhouse that excels in everyday riding and long distance touring.

Maintenance Tip

One piece of advice: disregard the 10,000-mile oil change interval. I recommend changing the oil every 5,000 miles. My T120 had some issues until around 20,000 miles, but since then, it’s been bulletproof. Regular oil changes are key to longevity, especially if you’re racking up the miles like I am.

IMHO Triumph’s 1200 inline twins deliver on all fronts. If you haven’t tried one yet, you’re missing out!
​

 

[Rob S.]

1200 horsepower from a vertical twin? Wow!