Nitro fuel

[Anonymous]

the guys i work with are into those Nitro powerd R/C cars, fast little buggers!....what affect would it have if i would dump some nitro mixed with gas? or am i asking for my crankshaft to pass me up on the road 8O

 

[Anonymous]

I have no idea if it'll work or not (or if it would cause spindle, fold, and mutilation of your engine to occur), but if turns out to be reasonable, try to get a digital movie image, that would be pretty cool to see.

 

[redliner1973]

The fuel your referring to would not be good in a spark-type ignition. these fuels are made to burn from a glow plug, simular to a diesel engine. they are, of course, alcohol based, and will not burn effeciently in a spark- type of engine. It is made for extremely high compression ratios (on the order of 20:1 and thats why they work in the R/C type applications). You will notice no improvement, actually a decrease in performance, because the fuel is thicker than gasoline, and won't burn good at such a low compression ratio that our Suzis' produce.

 

[Anonymous]

ok cool, thansk for the replys

 

[focus frenzy]

The fuel your referring to would not be good in a spark-type ignition. these fuels are made to burn from a glow plug, simular to a diesel engine. they are, of course, alcohol based, and will not burn effeciently in a spark- type of engine. It is made for extremely high compression ratios (on the order of 20:1 and thats why they work in the R/C type applications). You will notice no improvement, actually a decrease in performance, because the fuel is thicker than gasoline, and won't burn good at such a low compression ratio that our Suzis' produce.

INCORRECT (sorry)
I am a RCer and have 7 "nitro" fueled engines ( five plane and two surface)
top fuel dragsters, drag boats run on methanol/nitro fuel and they have spark ignitions, I have seen a rc plane that had a spark ignition system and ran on nitro methanol.
most rc engines have relativly low compresion.
methanol does allow for higher compresion ratios due to its resistance to pre-ignition (knock)
running a methanol nitro fuel will require much larger jets in the carburators to prevent thermo nuclear melt down of the pistons.

there used to be a class of drag bikes that did run methanol, but I am not aware of it still being done.

dont put any in your bike, a small enough amount that does not lean out the mixture wont make a noticable differance in perfomance.
for a power comparison, I have a .15 cu inch or 2.5cc engine for my stadium truck that makes 1.2hp (on 20%nitromethane) a gs 1000 (actual displacement 997cc) making the same power per cu inch or cc's would make 478.5 hp!!

 

[earlfor]

Radio Control glo plug engines as used in RC cars, boats, airplanes and helicopters generally have a compression ratio in the
6 or 7 to 1 range. Relatively speaking, they have low compression ratios. Nitromethane requires much larger jetting than does gasoline as you must flow much more of it. The RC Heli fuel I have is made up of 17% 10 weight castor oil, 15% nitromethane and 68% methyl alcohol. I doubt there is any noticable difference in viscosity between it and gasoline. You can run a spark ignition engine that burns nitromethane. (all you have to do is visit a drag strip to verify that) Also, ignition model engines do sometimes run some nitromethane. Nitromethane and gasoline engines need different kinds of seals as nitro will destroy the seals meant to handle gasoline. A small amount of nitro MAY not have an adverse effect on the carb "O" rings, seals, etc., however, that small of an amount would probably not have any useful effect on power output either. Also, nitromethane is corrosive and it would likely be a good idea to drain your oil and flush your engine every time you use any. All in all, I would never put nitro into my bike unless it was set up for drag stip only use and meant to use nitro exclusively.

Earl

The fuel your referring to would not be good in a spark-type ignition. these fuels are made to burn from a glow plug, simular to a diesel engine. they are, of course, alcohol based, and will not burn effeciently in a spark- type of engine. It is made for extremely high compression ratios (on the order of 20:1 and thats why they work in the R/C type applications). You will notice no improvement, actually a decrease in performance, because the fuel is thicker than gasoline, and won't burn good at such a low compression ratio that our Suzis' produce.

 

[Anonymous]

i love the smell of nitro in a r/c car in the morning

 

[redliner1973]

I still have to dissagree. Bigger jets are required due to the viscosity of nitromethane. Also, I guess nitro-burning dragsters are in the 6-7:1 compression range too huh? same fuel, just different sized motors.....(course the big ones dont use the castor oil)

 

[redliner1973]

I still have to dissagree. Bigger jets are required due to the viscosity of nitromethane. Also, I guess nitro-burning dragsters are in the 6-7:1 compression range too huh? same fuel, just different sized motors.....(course the big ones dont use the castor oil)

 

[JJ]

The bigger jets have nothing to do with the viscosity of the fuel. The larger jets are required to allow the greater volume of fuel required. You must burn approximately twice as much alcohol as gasoline in order to get the same energy output (BTU's).

In applications such as Top Fuel dragsters, running a high percentage of nitromethane (95%+), the small amount of alcohol is just a needed catalyst for the nitro.

The low (7:1 or so) compression ratio in Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars is because of the HUGE superchargers they use, which drastically increase cylinder pressure.

 

[Anonymous]

I DO KNOW THE TOP FUELERS ARE RUNNING HIGH COMP RATIOS, MAYBE SOMEWHERE LIKE 15:1 OR HIGHER.

 

[JJ]

I DO KNOW THE TOP FUELERS ARE RUNNING HIGH COMP RATIOS, MAYBE SOMEWHERE LIKE 15:1 OR HIGHER.

Sorry Rick.... WRONG!

You may be thinking of NASCAR engines. They run high compression ratios, but supercharged drag-racing engines run LOW compresion ratios, on the order of 7:1 or 8:1.

 

[kz]

The bigger jets have nothing to do with the viscosity of the fuel. The larger jets are required to allow the greater volume of fuel required. You must burn approximately twice as much alcohol as gasoline in order to get the same energy output (BTU's).

The bigger jets are related to the lambda value, meaning relation air/fuel, for gasolin normally approx. 14:1 and alcohol/metanol just need more parts of fuel to run as we like (almost twice as much).

 

[earlfor]

Hmmm, not exactly focus. Model engines running on nitromethane fuel run cooler than they do on the same fuel without the nitro added.

Earl

running a methanol nitro fuel will require much larger jets in the carburators to prevent thermo nuclear melt down of the pistons.

 

[Anonymous]

Top Fuel runs ~7:1 compression and 40psi (out of those amazingly inefficient blowers too!). I wonder what would happen if they used a nice Lysholm-style or centrifugal supercharger (Perhaps turbos, but that would seem to be a bit hard to quantify the power output at and just after launch).

Pure nitromethane (CH3NO2) runs stoichiometric at 1.6:1 air/fuel ratio. That means that for every unit of weight of nitromethane, there must be 1.6 units of air (well, not must, but thats stoich). This is compared to typical gasoline which is ~14.7:1. When you mix nitromethane with methanol (6.5:1) you can see why you would need HUGE jets on alky carbs.

Earl, technically FF is correct because if you don't change the jets, you'll be running lean as all hell. And we all know that lean @ WOT makes puddles of pistons.

Nitromethane info
Methanol info


-=Whittey=-

[edit] eye kant speel oar youz gramer

 

[earlfor]

Well Whittey, I think somewhere I have to find a happy medium between a two line statement and a two page dissertation.
I said a model airplane engine will run cooler using nitromethane than it will if run on the same fuel without the nitromethane.
That is correct. The more nitromethane there is in the alcohol, the more fuel flow (volume) you must have. Typically, the fuel used is 15% nitromethane, 20%oil and 65% alcohol. An engine running on this "nitro" fuel will run cooler than it will if run on 80%alcohol and 20% oil. Even model airplane engines are "jetted" for the specific fuel mixture that is used. I automatically assumed we were talking about proper jetting. Guess I should'nt have huh? I agree with you that lean and WOT will make a puddle of a piston......regardless of what fuel you are using.

Earl

Earl, technically FF is correct because if you don't change the jets, you'll be running lean as all hell. And we all know that lean @ WOT makes puddles of pistons.

 

[focus frenzy]

I dont know about that earl, the higher the nitro content, the higher the power produced.
more power = more heat

In the summer I run 20% nitro in my rc trucks, in the cooler weather of fall and winter I can get away with running 30% nitro but have over heating problems with 30% in the summer. (yes I retune for nitro content, approximatly 1/4 turn more for 30%)
I run byrons 15% nitro, 20% oil in my planes year round

PS: where is gerry? he is the expert, rc plane magazine editor, I thought he would have chimed in on this subject by now.

 

[earlfor]

Sure Leon, you are correct in that more power equals more heat. Let me give an example of my statement since I seem to be having difficulty here. I have an RC Heli that requires 2 HP for normal flight. The heli engine will produce that 2 HP using 15% nitromethane at a cooler operating temperature than it would if required to produce the same 2 HP using a straight alcohol fuel without nitromethane. For a given power output, the use of nitromethane results in a cooler running engine. For your car, if HP remains constant, then increasing nitromethane content MUST result in cooler operating temperatures. The reason your car runs hotter is because you are increasing power output.

Earl

I dont know about that earl, the higher the nitro content, the higher the power produced.
more power = more heat