Nitrous street 1166

[rapidray]

No, that's what a LOT of stock valves look like after back cutting them. Ray.

 

[blowerbike]

ray,
so does the valves lap into that area or is that just the increased flow area.
and stainless valves are already shaped(back cut) for increased flow...correct?

 

[rapidray]

ray,
so does the valves lap into that area or is that just the increased flow area.
and stainless valves are already shaped(back cut) for increased flow...correct?

Lapping is same, down where the seat is cut. The back cut is to increase airflow. Yes, stainless valve are made better for increased airflow. Ray.

 

[blowerbike]

so he could still lap and use them.
so there really is no issue at hand?
i have never had stock valves back cut...i always just bought stainless/springs/retainers/seals and dropped them off with the head at the machine shop.

 

[headsbikesmopars]

No, that's what a LOT of stock valves look like after back cutting them. Ray.

What he said.

 

[headsbikesmopars]

Lapping is same, down where the seat is cut. The back cut is to increase airflow. Yes, stainless valve are made better for increased airflow. Ray.

What he said..

 

[headsbikesmopars]

It looks like those valves were back cut using a lathe, and that is ok. I always use a valve grinding machine with a stone wheel. Much smoother cut. You are ok Nicholas..use 'em. As Ray says..Stainless valves nextime.

Terry

 

[Nicholaschase29]

Nick, it astounds me that you get this work done & then come to different sites & ask questions to everyone EXCEPT the guy that did the work for you! Call Terry & ask HIM! Do you have any idea how you are insulting Terry?! Terry has done exactly what he told you he would do & the STOCK valves look like that after they are backcut when you are too cheap to buy stainless valves. Ray.

Ray I really do appreciate the experience that you offer to the site - you've answered a lot of my questions and have guided me as well as many other through their my projects. I don't however appreciate ignorant comments based on assumptions; I find it to be insulting. Terry (headsbikesmopars) didn't do my valves. They were done by a local auto performance shop in my hometown. I have only posted good things and only have good things to say about Terry, his reputation, his workmanship, and hold him in high regard. I did not get a straight answer from the shop regarding the eccentric cuts on the valves so I posted questions on the forums. Terry was the first one i PM'd to give me his opinion of the work done to my valves.

Seeing how the performance shop doesn't often do motorcycle valves (had to order different collet to fit stem). I thought i'd ask the forums where people with specific experience can provide answers. The forums are a place where people can search for information and get input and help from other members. If you do a search on back-cut valves you will find hardly anything comes up. By posting and asking these questions explicitly on the forum I can increase the wealth of information on the site. As you can see even Blowerbike, a seasoned GS's and builder, has learned from this thread by me asking these questions on the forum. It's a good idea to get second opinions and not blindly accept the first answer to a solution.

As for being too cheap to get stainless valves, well, I'm a college student trying to get the most out of my engine by reasonable means. I'm not sponsored and building a competition drag bike, I'm not building a show bike, I'm learning and trying to make the most of what I have in the most cost effective way.

That being said I do not wish to start a debate on this thread but rather keep it's focus on the build itself.

 

[gearhead13]

Interesting build. Subscribed. Curious to see how well it will do with the big cams and stock springs. Should be a monster with the N20, overbore and porting

 

[posplayr]

It looks like those valves were back cut using a lathe, and that is ok. I always use a valve grinding machine with a stone wheel. Much smoother cut. You are ok Nicholas..use 'em. As Ray says..Stainless valves nextime.

Terry

I just looked at my picture archive but apparently I did NOT take any pictures of the back cut 28mm 1150 valves you did. I do remember seeing the apparent eccentricity of the back cut. I think you cut them down much thinner which reduced the apparent eccentricity. I concluded that it was the due to the way the valve was formed and nothing to do with your machining. Lapping the valves confirmed that.

As you know I debated going stainless 28.5mm v.s. the stock 28mm 1150 intake valves. Having looked at Nick's flow numbers (98+ cfm) with the 27mm v.s. mine 28mm valves (95+ cfm) valves suggests that porting has as much if not more to do with achieving a good flowing head.

Knowing that, I'm happy with my back-cut 1150 valves and the port work you did. Lifting the front wheel (even with Bill on it) in 2nd with roll on wheelies is just fine with me. So I want to thank you again for the work and effort you put into my head at a very reasonable price.:dancing: I just hope Nick starts a suspension upgrade thread for his ESD as it sounds like it will be a smoker. :-#

BTW

The comparison of my head and Nicks head using your numbers (reference my stock head numbers) is here. I think Nicks head was flowed with some stock, none backcut valves.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=137631&highlight=low+cost

I think from looking at this thread it is reasonable to conclude that it is a lot less hassle to let the same guy setup your performance valve job ( seat cut, porting , valves, back cutting, valve job).

 

[Nicholaschase29]

I think Nicks head was flowed with some stock, none backcut valves.

Thanks for the great info Jim! Terry flowed my head with backcut stock valves that he had.


I just got all of my parts in and will post pictures soon!

AND~~~ I am now the proud owner of an 1100 HD clutch basket!

More to come...

 

[posplayr]

Thanks for the great info Jim! Terry flowed my head with backcut stock valves that he had.


I just got all of my parts in and will post pictures soon!

AND~~~ I am now the proud owner of an 1100 HD clutch basket!

More to come...

I know you are busy (welcome to my world), but did you ever get your homework done?

V=IR and all that stuff

 

[Nicholaschase29]

I know you are busy (welcome to my world), but did you ever get your homework done?

V=IR and all that stuff

Hi Jim,

I apologize for not getting back to you - I know I have asked some other questions and you have replied and I have failed to respond further and I'm sorry about that as well. You offered a very in-depth explanation to the problem which I'm sure took up a large amount of time on your end.

I was able to figure out the equivalent resistance by applying a test voltage of 10V to the circuit as shown in P-spice. I guess I never thought of applying mesh current analysis to the circuit with the 10v test. I was just trying to sum them somehow (1/r+1/r=1/R) etc. but couldn't figure out how to do it that way (I NEEDED to apply test). When you sent me that It was just a DUH kind of moment and I was able to create 3 mesh currents and create 3 equations with 3 unknowns and then solve the equations on my calculator using matrices. Once I had the current around the outer loop I applied Ohms law against my 10V test voltage and solved current (0.083333mA) and then could find the resistance. R=V/I=10/0.083333

Thanks Jim!

 

[posplayr]

Hi Jim,

I apologize for not getting back to you - I know I have asked some other questions and you have replied and I have failed to respond further and I'm sorry about that as well. You offered a very in-depth explanation to the problem which I'm sure took up a large amount of time on your end.

I was able to figure out the equivalent resistance by applying a test voltage of 10V to the circuit as shown in P-spice. I guess I never thought of applying mesh current analysis to the circuit with the 10v test. I was just trying to sum them somehow (1/r+1/r=1/R) etc. but couldn't figure out how to do it that way (I NEEDED to apply test). When you sent me that It was just a DUH kind of moment and I was able to create 3 mesh currents and create 3 equations with 3 unknowns and then solve the equations on my calculator using matrices. Once I had the current around the outer loop I applied Ohms law against my 10V test voltage and solved current (0.083333mA) and then could find the resistance. R=V/I=10/0.083333

Thanks Jim!

Glad you figure it out. It would seem there were more than just three equation though. It is kinda tricky question I think. But that is also kinda typical. Most real problems are solved numerically , either by matrix inverse or more often some other iterative solution.

 

[Nicholaschase29]

Here are some pictures of my new parts.

I got valve guide seals, head gasket (.045" MLS...), cam chain tensioner gasket, stock 1100 base gasket, 1 set of rings, piston pin clips, O-rings for the cylinder head, some dowel pin locators and I think that's about it.

 

[Nicholaschase29]

Only three Mesh equations are necessary, one for each loop.

You just want the current through the big loop on the left. Once you have your three equations and solve for the current through each loop (need to solve for all 3 simultaneously in order to find one current) use the current on through the loop on the left (0.08333A) and the applied voltage (10V). Solve for R.

 

[Nicholaschase29]

I just did it again quick for you to see written out.

 

[blowerbike]

hey nick,
pm me about that basket..i'm a little concerned.

 

[rapidray]

Also, I couldn't be PAID to run that 1166 MLS gasket! Ask Jim & Bill why!!! Ray.

 

[Nicholaschase29]

I gave my uncle part number c8031 - a composite gasket - to order but the parts guy at his store couldn't find that number and he settled on this gasket. There was already some confusion regarding the piston rings and my uncle felt bad asking him to send the head gasket back too after the ring fiasco. He also figured the metal gasket would be better than composite.

Here's what Jim said when I asked him about it a few weeks ago:

I asked

Not sure if it was you as I lost track of where I read it. I am putting a wiesco1166 kit in my bike. In reading through some thread on here someone ( thought it was you ) said they wouldn't recommend using the Cometic head gasket that came in the kit. I was just wondering why.

The older Cometic composite gasket is fine, it is the MLS (multi layer stainless) gasket that is the problem. The 1100 gaskets have a tooling problem where the oil port reliefs are on the return ports instead of the pressure side ports so it leaks (like right now).

I don't think they sell the MLS anymore but it may very well be in an older Weisco 1166 kit.

[/QUOTE]

I'm hoping either A - They've redesigned the gasket or B - the 0.045" gasket didn't have this same problem (compared to the 0.043")

But maybe you're right Ray and I should just get a proper one now and save myself some headache.

Will a composite gasket be fine for my application?