offence resolved....

[Dark Jedi]

I think Katman's request to simply stay out of his threads with such avatar's is fine. A bit over-sensative, but his choice.

oddly enough, his Kat project elicits far more lust in me than any avatar I have seen.....

 

[lhanscom]

We must remember this is a familly orentied forum!

Where in the forum is this stated? I assumed that this was a GS oreinted forum, and as all the GS riders I've met are adults, this site could be considered an adult site.

I agree that people should be civil to one another, and if that means not posting a picture, fine. Being civil also requires people to over look some things as well. Every person sees 'offensive' differently, and just because one deams it offensive, doesn't mean it needs to be banished. If that were the case religion and politics would never be discussed again, and while some would like that idea, it has been decided that it is acceptable. So get angry at what you see, and speak your mind as you have, but remember that nobody is forcing you to come to this particular place on the net, and like the movie you return for another, there are other forums. It would be a shame if it came to that, but we're not forcing your hand.

 

[zstanisi]

The avatars were artwork, not even real pics, this is like saying a Rubens painting is offensive material.

Of course it is offensive, just look at how the lighting is done in the picture. And not to mention colours, I always thought red cape is reserved for Little Red ... Ah, where will this world end up...

 

[Hoomgar]

oi! I am ashamed of many more than I have ever been of myself.

katman simply asked that those participating in his bike mod threads observe a few things for him. It was a request. He is our friend, what could possibly of been the problem?

Shame shame shame [-X [-X [-X

 

[Anonymous]

Amen!!

Shame on anyone who is unwilling to be understanding of, and comply with such a simple request from Katman.

How can you folks be so selfishly pigheaded that they can?t do such a little thing for kat? Especially since his post is such a valuable wealth of information and ideas. I know I have learned quite a bit from reading his posts. I would hate to see him stop posting just because a few folks can?t show a little common courtesy.

 

[MichaelHoward]

Of course it is offensive, just look at how the lighting is done in the picture. And not to mention colours, I always thought red cape is reserved for Little Red ... Ah, where will this world end up...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Mr. Jiggles]

I can almost guarantee that there are a few here that would find Katman's censorship pretty offensive in and of itself, probably even more offensive than Katman finds the female body.

Katman made a simple public request. He does not intend to censor anyone. How can he do that, even if he wanted to?

I doubt if Katman finds the female body offensive at all. I can certainly understand his request, particularly the line about being at work while browsing this site, and the possibility that one of his co-workers may find something offensive.

Nick

Read Katman's second post in this thread more closely, Nick.

"What one calls art another calls child porn. Where is the line??? It changes like the jet stream every day. Not in my house. For my family the line is no nudity. It is clear and easy to understand and doesn't move. The kids know where they stand and where we stand.

Men look at nude woman because they enjoy it. It doesn't honor our wives, daughters sons, girlfriends or families so why do it? For selfish enjoyment. The only one this activity benefits, if you can say that, is the men. This activity is harmful to relationships not helpful or benigne. It sends a very wrong message to our daughters about what men like.
(...) scantally clad woman only make us men think of what is being covered....be HONEST...with yourself. If we(men) weren't so pre-ocupied with the female form it wouldn't be everywhere. "

It's clear to me that there are issues with images of the female body, not just totally nude but also scantilly clad, i.e. swimsuits, and the urges that they may invoke in some. So I ask again - where does it end? Will this policy prevent female members from posting their own picts as avatars out of concerns of evoking urges from 1 or 2 members?

AGain from Katman's second post in this thread:
"This didn't have to turn into a big song and dance....It was a simple request...."no nudity on my thread please". The only respnonse should have been OK. I didn't run out to the morality police I contacted the person privately and asked for a change without response."

My read into this is that he might (probably?) have had something to do with getting KGB's avatar changed. That IS censorship. And consider what it was that was removed - a low res drawing of a whip-wielding woman. How do TV censors make alter a nude scene for broadcast? by blurring the offending regions i.e. reduce its resolution. It certainly wasn't a nude phot and I wouldn't even consider it a nude image. That didn't stop someone who was overly sensitive to any titillating images to raise a ruckus and get the avatar yanked. Katman has already indicated that he regards all nude images of the female body, regardless of context, regardless of artistic value, as unacceptable. It seems that what every one here seems to be supporting is a pretty low threshold. It's a slippery slope that we're heading towards. I realize that this is a private site but I do take offense to assaults on freedom of (reasonable) expression and subsequent flippant policy-making.

To me, avatars are a way of expressing who we are, albeit often in very abstract ways. I thought that so far the site and especially it's members have done a pretty good job of not posting avatars that are outright offensive (sexually explicit, gore, violent). I also thought that it was implicit that there are people that are not going to like every avatar but that in the spirit of self-expression that (to a point) they would be tolerated. I agree with Frank's assessment that this community extends beyond GS-motorcycling proper, which is one of its appealing features for me (and I'm sure others). I fear that some of that flavor would be lost if we start applying puritanical scrutiny to what people post as avatars (or in print).

As for why this is in the Performance Section I am certain that it was an attempt to avoid a serious discussion by people on both sides of this serious issue.

 

[mdole]

We must remember this is a familly orentied forum!

Where in the forum is this stated? I assumed that this was a GS oreinted forum, and as all the GS riders I've met are adults, this site could be considered an adult site.

I'm offended that you called us all adults. For myself I'm just an extremely old teenager. And I'm never going to grow up, so there!

 

[lhanscom]

We must remember this is a familly orentied forum!

Where in the forum is this stated? I assumed that this was a GS oreinted forum, and as all the GS riders I've met are adults, this site could be considered an adult site.

I'm offended that you called us all adults. For myself I'm just an extremely old teenager. And I'm never going to grow up, so there!

Quite true, my mistake. I had used the term Adult loosely to mean over the age of 18. Most of the GSr's that I've met could not be mistaken for mature individuals :twisted:

 

[focus frenzy]

all I have to say on this subject is, I am sick and tired of right, left, whatever wing fringe religious/ moral Nazi's trying to tell me what I can see or do or say.
I will agree that a couple of the avatars were pushing it but they were with in the boundary's of the rules layed down by Frank.
last time I checked, when at work, we are suppose to WORK not surf the INTERNET, surf at your own risk, don't try to change the INTERNET to reduce your chances for getting in trouble for not working in the first place.

and despite putting man on the moon and little robots on mars, we still are animals and have animalistic instincts, nothing you do is ever going to change that.
you can lock your kids in the closet if you like, all you are doing is hurting them, you can not keep them under your wing forever, they will have to leave the nest eventually and they will be totally unprepared for what they will find.
a parents job is not to hide children from the world, but to guide them and teach them how the world is and the best way to deal with it.

 

[Mr. Jiggles]

I can almost guarantee that there are a few here that would find Katman's censorship pretty offensive in and of itself, probably even more offensive than Katman finds the female body.

What I should have said was "images of the female body". I apologize.

Jeff

 

[Hoomgar]

We must remember this is a familly orentied forum!

Where in the forum is this stated? I assumed that this was a GS oreinted forum, and as all the GS riders I've met are adults, this site could be considered an adult site.

I'm offended that you called us all adults. For myself I'm just an extremely old teenager. And I'm never going to grow up, so there!

Quite true, my mistake. I had used the term Adult loosely to mean over the age of 18. Most of the GSr's that I've met could not be mistaken for mature individuals :twisted:

And he hasn't even met me yet! 8O

 

[Guest]

all I have to say on this subject is, I am sick.

WOW, have I hit a nerve!

I don't surf at work. I am a stunt man so that isn't possible.

As far as teaching the kids to deal with life and porn I am. I don't agree we are animals. Animals kill at will and we restrain ourselves. I assume you don't urinate in the street or mate with any woman you see?

We have URGES to redline in top gear but some of us...well, usually don't act on it every time.

Setting boundries and guidlines for your life is called growing up. CHARACTER. If someone can't control themselves they usually end up in jail or trouble.

Hopefully that helps them grow up.

a parents job is not to hide children from the world, but to guide them and teach them how the world is and the best way to deal with it.

As parents it is our job to build character and self respect into our children. This in turn gives them strength to go THEIR own way and not someone elses. Thank goodness many parents have instilled into their children theat they can change the world and not have to settle for the way it is or may be going. That is called HOPE. An important aspect to anyones charater I think. Any one who reads or watches the news can sure agree with that.

We all choose our boundries and you are right...I can choose not to participate on this forum.

I thought the forum was great because of the discourse and information exchange, not the avatars?

You are right..I did ask a moderator to check out the avatar after no response from the poster. He saw fit to delete it. Then the next day it was back up by another poster. HMMmmmmm

What is the purpose of posting woman in bikinis, nudity or such? is it an expression of yourself or you just like to say "hey look at this".

The "if you don't like it go somewhere else" attitude is unfortunate. If I had received a response from the poster to begin with I wouldn't have had to go over his head to get a decision.

The moderator responded to my concerns which is what makes this forum pleasant place to be. people looking out for and considering others. The root of this site is to help each other get the most out of our biking experience not to be confrontational.

some might think I am the one being confrontational but IT WAS A SIMPLE REQUEST!!! If the decision was rendered that it was suitable I would have made a decision based on that. I am not trying to change the site. There are many sites I choose not to participate in and respect their right to exist.

I think woman are beautiful but I also believe there are parts of them that belong to them and I respect that they should be private. At least that is what I am trying to teach my daughter.

who amoung would rather have an animal date your daughter or a boy who respects her privacy and ownership of her own body?

I didn't say no bikini's, just no nudity, or anything that is made to look like it. If it has to be examined to determine it isn't it is out.

If I was asked to remove an avatar I would gladly and If one of our female gs'rs posted a pic of herself in a bathing suit on her bike I would not be offended. Let's keep things in context.

I'm not angry or upset just wanted a little consideration.

AM I RUNNING A LITTLE LEAN OR WHHHAT!!! WHO'S WITH MEEAAYYYYY!!

got any carb cleaner??

 

[KGB]

[quote="katman
You are right..I did ask a moderator to check out the avatar after no response from the poster. He saw fit to delete it. Then the next day it was back up by another poster. HMMmmmmm

What is the purpose of posting woman in bikinis, nudity or such? is it an expression of yourself or you just like to say "hey look at this".


some might think I am the one being confrontational but IT WAS A SIMPLE REQUEST!!! If the decision was rendered that it was suitable I would have made a decision based on that. I am not trying to change the site. There are many sites I choose not to participate in and respect their right to exist.

[/quote]

Rob,
You did receive a response from me after your request.
You sent me a private email asking me to take down the avatar YOU found offensive. I posted a question, in the "Off Topic" area, in the wide open Off Topic area. I waited a week to make a decision.
YOU elected to contact Frank and ask him to remove it.
If you're going to bend things to fit, use the whole story.
I guess this shows some true color by hiding it here in a performance area. At least I had the balls to post it where it should be.
I hope dogs don't offend you.
Am i pi$$ed? Bet your ass I'm pi$$ed, as are others.

 

[Guest]

I just had a look around and can't find your post?

I assumed you would have contacted me in the same manor in which I contacted you.

I posted in the area of contention, not to hide anything but to deal with it in the area affected.

I contacted Frank and asked him to check it out and forewarded the email I sent to you.

It would have been nice to have recieved a personal response instead of hoping I might stumble upon it somewhere else.

If my were intentions were "NOT". I wouldn't have bothered trying to get a hold of you privately I just would have gone straight to forum or to Frank.

I hope what ever you are going through right now eases up for you because to get this upset over an avatar??? I just hope things get better because there are real good things to boil about and this isn't even in the ball park.

I do like dogs.

 

[chattychris]

Well, I normally stay out of these kind of discussions but you have asked for a ladies view. So here goes.

First I feel I must tell you a little about myself before I give you my view. I am a married woman of 18++ years, I have two very beautiful children and I work very hard everyday in a respectable position in the banking industry.

With that being said, I have to say that the avitars on this forum have not bothered me in the least. The avy in question as someone else stated earlier had such low resoultion that I thought the lady looked like she could have had a body suit on with decorative stiching. I have seen many advertisments on local tv stations that were more offensive or degrading to me as a woman than any avies on this forum.

I also respect your right to ask someone to not post in your threads. However you must realize that it looks as if you are saying that if you don't like me, my morals, values, avatars etc.... You want nothing to do with me. We are all grown ups here and that certainly is your progative to have this attitude.

I noticed on your stats that you joined Sept.2003 and have 269 post of which they all appear to me to have been in the tech, apperance, perf. etc. The other person involed has been a member since Nov. 2002 with a total of 1764 post which have been in almost area of this forum. Why point this out you may ask. Have you taken the time to read this persons post other than the ones that you post in? If you have then you know that the avitar in question and all the others was made and given to this person by a very respectable member of this fourm which just happens to also be a woman. I feel she has also been hurt because in no way would this lady set out to offend anyone!!!

Did you email this person more than once or inform him that he was on a deadline to respond to your request?

I too like you are teaching my children that they can change the world in which we live but it is by loving someone and spending time getting to know them. Even if they do,say,, or belive in things we do not that by accepting people and not being judgemental, utimately our values or what have you will rub off or we will agree to be different ,not by shouting my way or I am going to tell!!!!!!

I know we will not all get along and there are things in the other threads that I highly disagree with but I choose to ignore them. I am saddend that just when we get back up again and we have almost survived those satanical political post that we have something like this to deal with too!!!!

This was my view as a woman and I approve this message :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your input Chris.

Am I not due the same consideration because I have not post as many times? You seem to have judged me completely without getting to know me. I guess what is good for one isn't good for the other?

I could read all the post you like but it doesn't change the fact I don't like to see his avatar in my thread. He could be a great guy, what does that have to do with apples? A great guy with an offensive avatar? Is that ok or am I to change my values for his. It is ok to ask me to accept his morality but flush mine? Where is the loving and accepting you are talking about?

I have banned no one from posting in my threads. just asked to consider not using an avatar.

I am guessing from your commentary you know KGB. I have learned quite a bit about him by his responses.

I am not going to appologize for or defend my actions further. The posts here tell the story.

I submit if it isn't offensive to anyone he should post it back up. Obviously it is very important to him or he wouldn't be so Pi$$ed.

If it is within the bounds of this forum maybe it should be. Majority rules I believe.

I believe I have stated my position clearly and further comment would be beating a dead horse or riding a bmw.

it is time to grow up and get over it. Do what seems right to you and let's get back to bikes.

Respect my view or no, that is everyones perogative.

it was a yes or no answer.....not a whole thread. I can deal with either..

But I sure do love spirited conversation.

 

[redliner1973]

it is time to grow up and get over it.

Maybe that consideration should have been thought about before the administration got involved?

 

[Guest]

nuff said, I'm dunn

 

[argonsagas]

Katman:

I have just been referred to this thread. I had not read it until now.

Before I invite you and not less than ten of your most intellectual friends to collectively create arguments to respond to me, please read and very carefully think over every one of the posts at "Guess it went too far" and "Where's Fornes" on this forum.

While it would in no way be to the benefit of the GSR Forum itself, which I feel has been dealt something near a death blow by your rejection of reality, I will gladly take on your collective group of not less than ten same-thinking intellectuals in a reasoned argument, with my specific objective being to obtain your apology to everyone on this Forum, and, without any further reservation, to have you withdraw any and every objection of any kind that you have posted to date, either on the Forum or to any and every Member and/or moderator of this Forum.

In the interest of not causing any further damage to the GS Resources Forum itself, fhe reasoned argument between your group of ten or more and myself can be conducted in the forum of your choice.

My sole requirement is that, if you choose any forum whatever that is accessible to anyone other than our two selves, (excepting communications that are strictly between the members of your group of not- less- than-ten individuals and not conveyed or made available, even indirectly, to any and every outsider) then the entire text of every argument must be made available to be seen by any and all interested members of the GS Resources Forum.


Please...NO comments of any kind.


Choose

A- I accept


or

B- I decline.



If A- then please nominate your choice of friends and forum and start preparing. Also, please notify this Forum of your specific intentions.

(Note that I am acting entirely on my own, having had no communications on the subect of the proposed argument with any moderator or anyone else on this Forum, and I commit to being honest and open to everyone on this Forum about anything and everything that results)


If B-......well, as I see it, you have already done major damage to the GSR Forum, its moderators, and everyone on it. Perhaps this will be a further opportunity to justify those results. Who knows? You may be successful. Your options are open, and many are waiting to hear of your choice(s).