Oil info from the "poll" section.

[jimcor]

Well, The Kelzer, welcome to the GS Resources. Nice way to become a valued forum member, jumping on board and assuming some of us are a bunch of cheapies and know nothings in less than 10 posts. And now some of us are bizarre. All because some don't agree with you and your slant on oil. Oil. The most debated thread on any motor website. And just who made you the final authority on oil? Why you did! All based on your statement that you worked for Suzuki and were a member of their accessory department with lubicant development as part of your job responsibility. Hell, this is the Internet you can be Mr. Suzuki if you want. So please drop in often and let us know how smart you are and keep trying to help us out. :-D

 

[83'GK]

Some of you people are very bizarre......
I stated I was not a oil scientist...but I consider myself much more than a "layman". I was simply trying to put my experience into terms most people in the forum could understand. Apparently, I failed.

I think what you fail to understand that while you may have sat in meetings and learned alot about lubricants, alot of us here have had similar experiences. Your boast about sulpher in oils tells me alot about what kind of information you were getting in those meetings. Some of us consider ourselves more than mere 'laymen' as well.

We were not there to put a motorcycle picture on a car oil and charge double for it (Are you people really that cheap to begin with that price is more important than quality? C'mon now were talking a few bucks here!).

Problem is, several manufacturers did just that. And Cheap? That example you just gave is a marketers dream..."Whats a few extra dollars"..I will tell you waht it is...BIG $$$ for the company. FACT.

Now, I could continue to debate this fact until we are all blue in the face but there is one thing missing from most of your retorts on the subject, and that is the understanding that the NEW auto oils are not the same as the old ones. They have been modified extensively. Some of those tweeks are not condusive to motorcycle engines/transmissions. (The shop manual for my 2003 GSXR1000 states to use Suzuki Performance 4 Motor Oil OR an API SF or SG rated oils.....most new auto oils are SL.....so why specificaly state SF or SG ....a 4 generation older oil?? Because auto oils changed after that time frame and are no longer condusive to motorcycles. It's that simple.

Unfortunately, it is NOT that simple. One reason M/C manufacturers reccomend SG oils is that amount of ZDDP and phosphorus, a great 'barrier additive'. In newer oils, these were removed or lowered due to issues with catalytic converters which M/C's do not have issue with. However, those, while proven and great in operation, have been replaced by other chemicals such as Boron and Moly which have equal properties for protection. M/C's do not have emission concerns as automobiles do, and therefore can run oils with high levels of ZDDP and phosphorus, and since they are 'stable standby's', the manufactures' can recommend them without issues. Those 'barrier' additives are still needed in automotive applications as well, just because they are car engines, does not mean they do not need 'barrier additives' as well. They are just of a different formulation, with 'different but equal' characteristics.

While the car transmission analogy I used was brought up by several people, they too missed the point. Yes the tranny's in your ancient MGB requires motor oil (from that time period...and no wet clutch.), Your Honda civic may too (it doesn't have a wet clutch either.) etc etc... Not a single person said it was OK to put GL-5 in their motor because it's obviously a different type of lubricant proving not all lubricants are the same! Motor oils are different now. I think the fork oil in my old GS is supposed to be 10w-40 motor oil too. Well heck then, those fancy pants fork oil companies must be BS too then huh ? I bet Matt Mladin runs good ol'e Penzoil 10w-40 in his bike and forks! Hell, he's a 4 time champ, he must know what works and what doesn't then right.....Gyaawly.

GL-5 oils are specifically different, what you are comparing is not any different than saying 'why dont you run Dextron lll in your engine'. As for Fork oils, like GL-5's and Dextron's, they are specific types of fluids. M/C oils, are basically the same as car oils, with each one installing additives THEY feel will protect an engine better than the competitors oils. And in fact, most M/C oils, sans synthetics, are usually group I or group II oils! Most synthetics are usually Esther-based or PAO. And while on the subject of forks, My manual does say Transmission fluid can be used in the fork. Hmmm, maybe the fork oil guys are BS after all....

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, that's fine. But don't tell me I'm wrong when I've seen the testing results from the Factory in Japan and have been in the discussions and you haven't.

As previously mentioned. I'm just trying to help.

And please don't tell us or assume we are all a bunch of non-knowing stupid f***s because we haven't sat in on a Suzuki meeting or two...Some of us here have sat in on other things that YOU have not....

It's THAT simple....

 

[ron bayless]

Er, i am late in this conversation and i am glas i was.Can anyone tell me if castrol gtx is ok to run in my 1980 gs 1000 with 35,000 miles on it without making anyone mad?

 

[The Kelzer]

Whatever 83GK

I'll never try to help you out again.

My mistake.....

Aloha Mahu,
Kelzer

 

[83'GK]

Whatever 83GK

I'll never try to help you out again.

My mistake.....

Aloha Mahu,
Kelzer

trying to help, and dismissing people as 'intellectually inferior' when you don't know them are two different things. I value what your trying to convey here, but your attitude about it leaves much to be desired. I think both of us have valid points, but you tend to dismiss mine and me (and others posting here as well) as not knowing anything about oils.

 

[83'GK]

Er, i am late in this conversation and i am glas i was.Can anyone tell me if castrol gtx is ok to run in my 1980 gs 1000 with 35,000 miles on it without making anyone mad?

The Kelzer: NO!

83'GK: Sure!

You decide!

 

[The Kelzer]

Ron, If you're educated in the subject you certainly wouldn't run the current formulation of GTX in any motorcycle. But 83 GK would...you decide. But he's never seen a disassembled motor after FACTORY testing, I have. So what's he really know on the subject, very little real world knowledge if you ask me.

 

[tkent02]

'77 GS 550 over 100,000 miles and no clutch slippage...

'77 GS 550 over 100,000 miles and no clutch slippage...

when it was dissassembled had near zero wear on any metal parts...Put in new rings for the heck of it but the old ones were fine. This with Mobil one CAR oil. So you can take your motorcycle oil and pour it where the sun don't shine.

 

[dpep]

Er, i am late in this conversation and i am glas i was.Can anyone tell me if castrol gtx is ok to run in my 1980 gs 1000 with 35,000 miles on it without making anyone mad?

Catrol is fine. 10W40 or 20W50. As long as you check the can to make sure it does not say "Energy Conserving" most any brand of oil will work for you....if you change it regularly. At present I believe only the lower weight oils, 30w and below, are energy conserving.

 

[earlfor]

Castrol GTX 20w50 or 10w40 is fine. I used the 20w50 for MANY years and it doesnt come in the "engergy conserving" flavor.

Earl

Catrol is fine. 10W40 or 20W50. As long as you check the can to make sure it does not say "Energy Conserving" most any brand of oil will work for you....if you change it regularly. At present I believe only the lower weight oils, 30w and below, are energy conserving.

 

[dietcokeking]

A side issue of great significance: Pretending for a moment that oil manufacturers are correct in all their motorcycle-specific claims, can the cost of research and a different additive package justify the retail price of m/c-specific vs. auto oils?

Motorcycle oil development seems to have stalled while auto oils are now at grade SM. Research costs must have stalled, too, eh? Then, can a few cents worth of additional or different additive ingredients justify the 50-100% increase in cost for m/c-specific at retail? Perhaps it's this price gouging that causes me to be so cynical!

I suspect that m/c-specific oil should properly sell at 10% more than car oil. Perhaps it is advertising-induced paranoia that allows the oil manufacturers to gouge the users of m/c oils. I've certainly never seen definitive research to prove their point despite much searching.

Again, pretending that m/c-specific oils are far better for our bikes than car oils, I would submit that the car oils I use in my bikes today are better than ANY available motor oil in 1981. I expect that I will wear out before my bikes do.

Mobil 1 synthetic 15W-50 car oil continues to work well in my four bikes (I sold my '82 XL250 to a buddy recently). Castrol GTX has worked well for me when I need to do a short interval oil change.

My clutches are fine. In fact, I've never had to replace a clutch on any bike I've owned. They're pretty durable!

 

[ron bayless]

tHANKS TO ALL WHO ANSWERED MY QUESTION ABOUT CASTROL IN MY BIKE.KELZER SAYS NO, BUT THE RESTO OF YOU SAID OK, SO I WILL GO WITH THE MAJORITY.THANKS AGAIN.

 

[earlfor]

The price gouging is worse than that. I can buy GTX for #1.25 a quart. Motorcycle oil at the dealer is $12 a quart. According to the results of independent testing and analysis I have read, motorcycle specific oils average no better and some are not as good.
I can name a well known motorcycle oil that after reading an independent evaluation of, I would not put in my lawnmower much less my car or motorcycle.

Earl

Motorcycle oil development seems to have stalled while auto oils are now at grade SM. Research costs must have stalled, too, eh? Then, can a few cents worth of additional or different additive ingredients justify the 50-100% increase in cost for m/c-specific at retail? Perhaps it's this price gouging that causes me to be so cynical!

 

[JMHJ]

Do any "car" oils have a disclaimer about "don't use in motorcycles" on them? If the stuff was bad for bikes, you'd think they'd want to avoid getting sued, or what have you.

In fairness, volume produced has something to do with pricing too.

I used Castrol 20W-50 for years in my first bike, regular at first, then semi-synthetic. I went a LONG time (not miles) between changes on the semi-synthetic stuff once, and it held up nicely. I'm trying 10W-40 now, but not Castrol; nothing against it though.

 

[83'GK]

Ron, If you're educated in the subject you certainly wouldn't run the current formulation of GTX in any motorcycle. But 83 GK would...you decide. But he's never seen a disassembled motor after FACTORY testing, I have. So what's he really know on the subject, very little real world knowledge if you ask me.

......Yet you have not disclaimed anything I posted last time, nor given any of us any real worldly knowledge except how you know it all and the rest of us don't, yet you call me uneducated..you arrogance is, say, bizarre...

 

[jimcor]

Do any "car" oils have a disclaimer about "don't use in motorcycles" on them? If the stuff was bad for bikes, you'd think they'd want to avoid getting sued, or what have you.

Nope, not as far as I know.

 

[rustybronco]

Why would one want to compare a 10w oil to a 80w gear lube?
real life world example here, my brother in law had a buick that he used gear oil in it, it lasted 70 miles before it started knocking.
i'll stick with rotella in my engines thank you.

 

[Kaiser Sosei]

Some of you people are very bizarre......


While the car transmission analogy I used was brought up by several people, they too missed the point. Yes the tranny's in your ancient MGB requires motor oil (from that time period...and no wet clutch.), Your Honda civic may too (it doesn't have a wet clutch either.) etc etc... Not a single person said it was OK to put GL-5 in their motor because it's obviously a different type of lubricant proving not all lubricants are the same! Motor oils are different now. I think the fork oil in my old GS is supposed to be 10w-40 motor oil too. Well heck then, those fancy pants fork oil companies must be BS too then huh ? I bet Matt Mladin runs good ol'e Penzoil 10w-40 in his bike and forks! Hell, he's a 4 time champ, he must know what works and what doesn't then right.....Gyaawly.

Kelzer.

The reason I brought up the transmission was you stated that motor oil could not stand up to the shearing action of the gears, obviously it can.

My father has run car oil in his 77CB750 for years, no clutch problems. When I rebuilt the engine for him, no sludge, no severely worn parts. I have run regular oil in my 80GS1100, no clutch problems.

I think most of us would buy motorcycle oil if there was independant proof that it was better than car oil, and it wasn't 4 times the price. I can get full synthetic car oil for cheaper than what motorcycle oil costs.

Oh yeah, my ancient MGB gets me to work everyday......\\/

 

[rustybronco]

Some of you people are very bizarre......

Not a single person said it was OK to put GL-5 in their motor because it's obviously a different type of lubricant proving not all lubricants are the same! Motor oils are different now. I think the fork oil in my old GS is supposed to be 10w-40 motor oil too. Well heck then, those fancy pants fork oil companies must be BS too then huh ? I bet Matt Mladin runs good ol'e Penzoil 10w-40 in his bike and forks! Hell, he's a 4 time champ, he must know what works and what doesn't then right.....Gyaawly.

It's that simple.

Aloha,
Kelzer.

Racing is now in the equation? well if i was using my bike for HARD street use, motorcross or road racing i'd use fork oil, but for street use i use a blend of 20wt oil and atf and it is working just fine.
just so you know we're not all hicks, i race cars on weekends and we use royal purple full synthetic in our engines, two full seasons, no problems. and i would not use 75w140 in our shocks, but thats a different thread...

 

[crc1214]

Well, The Kelzer, welcome to the GS Resources. Nice way to become a valued forum member, jumping on board and assuming some of us are a bunch of cheapies and know nothings in less than 10 posts. And now some of us are bizarre. All because some don't agree with you and your slant on oil. Oil. The most debated thread on any motor website. And just who made you the final authority on oil? Why you did! All based on your statement that you worked for Suzuki and were a member of their accessory department with lubicant development as part of your job responsibility. Hell, this is the Internet you can be Mr. Suzuki if you want. So please drop in often and let us know how smart you are and keep trying to help us out. :-D

LOL!! LOL!! LOL!!! Kelzer man, oil is the hottest debated topic on this site. And posing as some absolute authority on the subject as a brand new member isn't the best way to earn everyone's respect, that's for sure. Just step back and think about this for awhile - as an employee in the motorcycle industry, do you really think you would ever hear that anything other than motorcycle specific oil should be used in motorcycles? Hell no!

I remember reading an article that compared dyno figures, HP, compression, and some other data from a brand new CBR1000 and a CBR1000 with 100,000 miles that had used CONVENTIONAL AUTO OIL in it (20W-50 in the warm months and 10W-40 in the cold months). The oil was changed every 3,000 miles and the filter every 6,000 miles. Guess what? All performance figures were virtually identical between the two.

I'll post the article if I can find it.

Chad