Painting my 450

[Guest]

I also had a quick query about the masking...

That Brian Martin website Dan linked to earlier shows a different technique for masking where he puts the masking tape and paper down first not quite up to the line where he needs to mask, and then he puts the fine line tape along the edge.

This is instead of putting the fine line tape down first, then masking tape and paper over the top of it.

It sounds like a reasonable idea from his blurb, any thoughts on whether this is a better way or just different?

http://www.autobodystore.com/ms24.shtml

 

[rustybronco]

Pete, you are using the 1.4 tip gun to spray with; correct?

how many regulators do you have in line between the compressor and the gun. if the gun has a regulator (valve) in the handle, is it completely open?

what air pressure is at the gun with the trigger pulled and air flowing through it?

how wide (tall) is your spraying width to when held a hands width away? 150~200 mm? judging by the width of your masking tape it doesn't look like the gun is set wide enough to me. widen up the spray pattern and see if that helps you get the metallic to distribute a bit more evenly. it could be a problem with the gun as well if the parts are not sealing correctly.

did you prime that piece of sheet metal and try the gun out first? sorry to have to say this, but you may have to sand the base after it's dry and re-base it.

And here are the rest of the bits tonight. They all appear somewhat splotchy but I'm hoping that's just a normal part of the drying process:

The metallic should be nice and even; similar to this > http://imageshack.us/f/84/img2132d.jpg/ if it's not, then it could be the gun, gun set up, your method of spraying ect.

It seemed to sand a lot easier than I thought it would, I'm hoping that's normal?

Sounds normal

as far as putting down fineline before or after masking, I guess that would be one's personal preference depending one needs to do with it. if you were to lay out intricate curves, I would put the fineline down first then mask


hopefully someone else will offer up their comments as well.

 

[rustybronco]

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/~...les/Reference/Trouble Shooting Guide/tsg.ashx
see page 32 'Mottling'

and yeah I'm hanging for 'Dave8338', Larry, Johnny, anyone to let me know if it's looking normal or not...

I'm just a garage painter... you need to talk to those who do it for a living.
http://thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1512043&postcount=12

 

[nvr2old]

Pete, you are using the 1.4 tip gun to spray with; correct?

how many regulators do you have in line between the compressor and the gun. if the gun has a regulator (valve) in the handle, is it completely open?

what air pressure is at the gun with the trigger pulled and air flowing through it?

how wide (tall) is your spraying width to when held a hands width away? 150~200 mm? judging by the width of your masking tape it doesn't look like the gun is set wide enough to me. widen up the spray pattern and see if that helps you get the metallic to distribute a bit more evenly. it could be a problem with the gun as well if the parts are not sealing correctly.

did you prime that piece of sheet metal and try the gun out first? sorry to have to say this, but you may have to sand the base after it's dry and re-base it.


The metallic should be nice and even; similar to this > http://imageshack.us/f/84/img2132d.jpg/ if it's not, then it could be the gun, gun set up, your method of spraying ect.

Sounds normal

as far as putting down fineline before or after masking, I guess that would be one's personal preference depending one needs to do with it. if you were to lay out intricate curves, I would put the fineline down first then mask


hopefully someone else will offer up their comments as well.

I always find it easier to lay down the fine line tape first. That way you can see what the stripes will look like..then fill in the spaces with masking tape. The only place I would use paper on this particular application is down the sides of the tank. The top and between the stripes, tape only.

 

[drivera84]

looking good pete!

 

[Guest]

Pete, you are using the 1.4 tip gun to spray with; correct?

Yep that's right.

how many regulators do you have in line between the compressor and the gun. if the gun has a regulator (valve) in the handle, is it completely open?

Because I had to get that other water filter, there are three inline regulators, one on the compressor, the filter one, and one I attach to the gun directly. The first two are open completely allowing full flow and the one at the gun I found best to set at 40 PSI.

The gun has an air adjustment on it and der, yeah ok, why didn't I think about that before? I don't think that's completely open at all...

what air pressure is at the gun with the trigger pulled and air flowing through it?

I know it drops from the 40 but I'm not sure how much. So let me guess the PSI rating for the gun is trigger open, not trigger closed... that should've been obvious!

how wide (tall) is your spraying width to when held a hands width away? 150~200 mm? judging by the width of your masking tape it doesn't look like the gun is set wide enough to me. widen up the spray pattern and see if that helps you get the metallic to distribute a bit more evenly. it could be a problem with the gun as well if the parts are not sealing correctly.

I thought I had opened it up enough but maybe I'm wrong. I didn't get a photo of the pattern I ended up using, but seeing as it looks like I need to redo it then I can certainly concentrate on a better one this time.

did you prime that piece of sheet metal and try the gun out first? sorry to have to say this, but you may have to sand the base after it's dry and re-base it.

Bugger! No I managed to hide it behind the cardboard and didn't even think about it until reading this...

The metallic should be nice and even; similar to this > http://imageshack.us/f/84/img2132d.jpg/ if it's not, then it could be the gun, gun set up, your method of spraying ect.

I think it will be a combination of gun setup and my spraying method.

Sounds normal

Phew, at least something sounds right...

as far as putting down fineline before or after masking, I guess that would be one's personal preference depending one needs to do with it. if you were to lay out intricate curves, I would put the fineline down first then mask

That's cool, thought I'd raise the question anyway...

hopefully someone else will offer up their comments as well.

Thanks Dale, I really appreciate the feedback. I wasn't sure if the 2K should spray out in the finish it should end up with or if it dries differently and I didn't think about a pearl having a particular spraying technique.

I thought I had read lots, but not enough, and I don't think I took all you guys advice in properly either at this stage as I'm a practical learner... I need to do stuff before it sinks in...

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/~/media/Sherwin-Williams-Files/Files/Reference/Trouble%20Shooting%20Guide/tsg.ashx
see page 32 'Mottling'


I'm just a garage painter... you need to talk to those who do it for a living.
[URL]http://thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1512043&postcount=12[/URL]

Thanks for the link, perfect, and I should be able to dry sand with 400 again and re-coat which I can cope with even though it's frustrating, but all my own fault too... all part of the learning curve right?

 

[Guest]

I always find it easier to lay down the fine line tape first. That way you can see what the stripes will look like..then fill in the spaces with masking tape. The only place I would use paper on this particular application is down the sides of the tank. The top and between the stripes, tape only.

Thanks Larry, that sounds nice and simple... and simple is what I need at the moment...

Have you got anything to add to Dale's comments at all?

 

[Guest]

looking good pete!

Hmmm... maybe not

 

[rustybronco]

Hmmm... maybe not

Oh yea of so little faith. of course it will!

Pete, loose two of those regulators. that many inline restrictions might add to your troubles. make sure the gun is full open and regulate it at the water filter.

 

[Guest]

Oh yea of so little faith. of course it will!

Haha I hope so! I was really referring to the current state...

Pete, loose two of those regulators. that many inline restrictions might add to your troubles. make sure the gun is full open and regulate it at the water filter.

I wish I could! the problem is that they're built in to the compressor and filter... if I remove them then they'll just become big air vents which is *really* annoying...

However I will definitely increase the pressure with the trigger *open* and will wind the air valve fully open also.

This is where cheap equipment starts biting I guess and i'll just do what I can to work around it...

Your comments there are all so sensible right now and after looking again this morning and reading that article you linked to I know for a fact my gun is not set right and my technique was poor.

So here are how the pieces look this morning:





So this morning I will dry sand it all back with 400 grit and I'll take the opportunity to smooth out that front guard too as those sanding lines are too obvious. I noticed a few on the seat trim pieces as well that I wouldn't have worried about but will deal with now.

Then I'm going to go by the paint spec's and mask after a couple of hours to do the stripes.

I know it's better to leave it overnight but tomorrow is a no spray day due to a few things planned and I promised my wife I wouldn't do any bike stuff on the weekend.

The weather has made it dry nice and quick so I'm happy to risk it and the blame if it goes bad can be all pointed straight back at me (again)

 

[Guest]

Oh yea of so little faith. of course it will!

Pete, loose two of those regulators. that many inline restrictions might add to your troubles. make sure the gun is full open and regulate it at the water filter.

Err, just re-read this...

The water filter is actually at the compressor...

Man I'm such a dolt sometimes... Pete... remove the regulator from the gun, move the regulator/filter from the compressor to the gun... whammo, only two regulators in line...

Sorry for my lack of sensible straight forward thinking... I went by the little piece of paper that said to mount the filter securely but I actually don't need to do that at all, I just need to be careful not to bang it around really...

 

[Guest]

Oh, and I'm logging off but will check back after sanding before spraying in case anything else has been added...

 

[rustybronco]

Man I'm such a dolt sometimes... Pete... remove the regulator from the gun, move the regulator/filter from the compressor to the gun... whammo, only two regulators in line...

Mount the reg/water filter combo at the compressor without any other reg's in line. run the air hose to the gun and regulate the guns pressure at the tank. connect the small filter you bought right at the gun to capture any water that condenses in the air hose.

 

[Guest]

Mount the reg/water filter combo at the compressor without any other reg's in line. run the air hose to the gun and regulate the guns pressure at the tank. connect the small filter you bought right at the gun to capture any water that condenses in the air hose.

I would except I don't have that any more... that's the one that's faulty that they won't honour warranty on that I sent back, so the only filter I have now is the one with the regulator on it.

Looking at it, I see no reason it has to be mounted securely as such, it's essentially the same as the small one just a bit bulkier...

 

[Flyboy]

Phhaa, you to hard on yourself Pete, for a first time, you did just fine, a damn sight better than I would have done, that is for sure.
So it is not perfect, big deal, so what, it's called learning, and it takes a brave man to dive into the deep end with his first paint job and lay down metalic.
Anyway, its not like it is a disaster or anything, just means a little more sanding is all, and it ain't done yet, its just a work in progress, so your shiny new paint job will have six coats of base instead of three, big deal.
Thrust me, it is going to turn out great when you are done, I know it.

 

[landshark]

Without actually seeing it person it is hard to say too much about your spray job Pete.
But i would have just 2 comments/questions:
What grade sandpaper are you finishing with before each coat?
Did you use any spray putty on the parts before the primer?
It looks good, but from the pics it seems like there are still a few sanding marks?
Love the deep colour!

 

[landshark]

Here is my tank after 2 coats, i think?
I cant tell you how many hours i spent sanding.

 

[Leigh]

Hmmm... maybe not

It's red, Pete, that's a good start.

Keep experimenting, you'll get it.
The inside of the little hutch I made for the firewood is a familiar shade of blue..
If you get what I mean

 

[oldrookie]

I'm being patient Josh!

10 years in...you've got my vote for Mr. Patience.

 

[Guest]

Phhaa, you to hard on yourself Pete, for a first time, you did just fine, a damn sight better than I would have done, that is for sure.
So it is not perfect, big deal, so what, it's called learning, and it takes a brave man to dive into the deep end with his first paint job and lay down metalic.
Anyway, its not like it is a disaster or anything, just means a little more sanding is all, and it ain't done yet, its just a work in progress, so your shiny new paint job will have six coats of base instead of three, big deal.

Thanks for the encouragement Stan, really appreciate it.

I find if I'm not hard on myself then I don't succeed as well, so I usually drive myself pretty hard... sometimes it even works

More than anything I was annoyed at losing the morning to redo the base colour again as I was really hoping to get it all finished by this avo' so I could let it cure and start sanding/polishing on Monday.

As it turns out that's still possible... I will update once a heap of pic's finish uploading...

Thrust me, it is going to turn out great when you are done, I know it.

Ummm... I might pass on thrusting you if that's ok

But I think it will turn out passably ok, maybe not great but definitely ok...

Without actually seeing it person it is hard to say too much about your spray job Pete.
But i would have just 2 comments/questions:
What grade sandpaper are you finishing with before each coat?
Did you use any spray putty on the parts before the primer?
It looks good, but from the pics it seems like there are still a few sanding marks?
Love the deep colour!

Hey mate, thanks for the feedback!

The primer was sanded with 400 grit, but the plastic bits I had I think 120 and 240 on it as I thought the flexi primer was going to be a more substantial primer instead of simply an adhesion promoter, which is why the sanding marks are still on the front guard.

I didn't use spray putty as the tail piece... well that was a different adventure but the tank is perfectly straight so no need for any putty. I simply put POR 15 Metal Ready down first to prepare the metal for the primer.

Here is my tank after 2 coats, i think?
I cant tell you how many hours i spent sanding.

Mate that looks like a good effort there! Fortunately there were no sanding marks on the tank, only the plastics...

It's red, Pete, that's a good start.

Keep experimenting, you'll get it.
The inside of the little hutch I made for the firewood is a familiar shade of blue..
If you get what I mean

It is indeed Leigh! I'd be really annoyed if it came out green...

Glad to see you got to use the rest of that blue! I liked that blue...

10 years in...you've got my vote for Mr. Patience.

It's wearing thin though! I must admit to running out of it at one point today...