picked up a gas analyzer today

[posplayr]

I cannot disagree. The best way to tune is using a computer, OBDI or OBDII. That is what Innovate designed the LM products to work with, and they do it well.
But we don't have that option, and have to make do. Tuning on the needle is not extremely difficult, as long as you are able to tell where you are running. Again, it requires starting the logger and being able to tell where you are when you go to examine the data. It is not a perfect system, not by a long shot. But it can be made to work, and is a lot less expensive than endless plug chops. If you already own the LM-1, which I do.
My GPz has an electronic tach, so it could probably be made to work with an LMA3. But with an analog tach, IDK.
Also, consider what tuners use when they dyno tune your bike. They have an O2 sensor they stick up the tailpipe, and tune the main jet for WOT. This is the main issue I have for getting a bike or car tuned, they seldom consider every day tuning where you are mainly partial throttle, which is on the needle for us.

When I spoke to tech support about the RPM inputs on the LM-2 vs. the LMA-3 both using analog or inductive clamps. They said the whole issues was blow out of proportion however if there was any issue using the LM-2 the LMA-3 should do well.

From what they have said, it appears that the LMA-3 measures RPM by averaging the time across multiple ignition pulses, the LM-2 estimates RPM by measuring the time between ignition pulses. That makes the LM-2 more responsive and much more suceptable to noise.

Since I have both I'm hoping to be able to get one or the other to work without doing something too heroic.

If it gets too bad I might have to send an algorithm that will filter the noise that is causing the jumping

 

[Guest]

When I spoke to tech support about the RPM inputs on the LM-2 vs. the LMA-3 both using analog or inductive clamps. They said the whole issues was blow out of proportion however if there was any issue using the LM-2 the LMA-3 should do well.

From what they have said, it appears that the LMA-3 measures RPM by averaging the time across multiple ignition pulses, the LM-2 estimates RPM by measuring the time between ignition pulses. That makes the LM-2 more responsive and much more suceptable to noise.

Since I have both I'm hoping to be able to get one or the other to work without doing something too heroic.

If it gets too bad I might have to send an algorithm that will filter the noise that is causing the jumping

My 29.00 inductive pickup was already out by 1k @ 3k. It would bounce from 1900 rpm to 2800 rpm and could not read above 5k. Several standing wot runs and only one made it to 5k

 

[koolaid_kid]

Both very interesting posts. Could there have been EMI from the other coil or other plug wires? Why would Innovate use two different methods for measuring RPM? Did they find a flaw in one which they attempted to correct by using a different method? Both are estimators, of course.

 

[posplayr]

My 29.00 inductive pickup was already out by 1k @ 3k. It would bounce from 1900 rpm to 2800 rpm and could not read above 5k. Several standing wot runs and only one made it to 5k

So after hearing hundreds of complaints about RPM, they must be streaching the truth a little.

Something else unusual is the forum was shut down for uh err......improvements

 

[posplayr]

Both very interesting posts. Could there have been EMI from the other coil or other plug wires? Why would Innovate use two different methods for measuring RPM? Did they find a flaw in one which they attempted to correct by using a different method? Both are estimators, of course.

The LM-1 and LMA-3 methods have an inherent noise advantage as I previously described. The LM-2 software was to impove dynamic performance as they describe. If they are using an "estimator" for the LM-2 the it is probably a "weaner" filter.

My suggestion would not be to use that type but rather a modified "knarly notch"

 

[FlyingSteve]

STREET BIKE. Don't think its a waste of time and money to properly tune bike for the street. Have a look around this forum at aaaaaaaaallll the dudes having problems with carbs. It is endless, an analyzer gives you quick answers and directions to go. Rich? lean? rich? lean? no its rich? no, its lean! IMHO it is a time saver.

Also, this is primarily for tuning my efi/turbo.

Um... Did you forget that you are working with carburetors? Did you forget that air density changes day-by-day and even hour-by-hour? What you tune for in the morning will be trash in the mid-day heat and humidity. And what you tuned for in the heat of the afternoon, will be crap in the cool night air. Even if you tuned the carburetors in perfectly (which is laughable at best) and you were out riding your bike around the back roads and a frontal system started moving in to your area, whether it be a warm and humid mass of air or cool and dry, now your tune is effectively not perfectly and you just wasted a lot of time.

You are using equipment that is more designed to get a precise tune... Which is great for a track vehicle, not for an every day street vehicle... Unless you want to screw with your carbs every time before you go riding. Even at the track, you may end up changing your jets/needles, etc, many times through out the day to keep your engine in the perfect A/F for it's max power delivery.

*I should say that if you are going to waste all this money, you should just buy an EFI engine and swap it in to your frame. At least then you will be working with something that can actually give you good information for data logging and can be modified on the fly in a few moments with the press of a key.

 

[Guest]

Um... Did you forget that you are working with carburetors? Did you forget that air density changes day-by-day and even hour-by-hour? What you tune for in the morning will be trash in the mid-day heat and humidity. And what you tuned for in the heat of the afternoon, will be crap in the cool night air. Even if you tuned the carburetors in perfectly (which is laughable at best) and you were out riding your bike around the back roads and a frontal system started moving in to your area, whether it be a warm and humid mass of air or cool and dry, now your tune is effectively not perfectly and you just wasted a lot of time.

You are using equipment that is more designed to get a precise tune... Which is great for a track vehicle, not for an every day street vehicle... Unless you want to screw with your carbs every time before you go riding. Even at the track, you may end up changing your jets/needles, etc, many times through out the day to keep your engine in the perfect A/F for it's max power delivery.

*I should say that if you are going to waste all this money, you should just buy an EFI engine and swap it in to your frame. At least then you will be working with something that can actually give you good information for data logging and can be modified on the fly in a few moments with the press of a key.

Thanks for your input.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks for your input.

I second that

 

[Turtleface]

*I should say that if you are going to waste all this money, you should just buy an EFI engine and swap it in to your frame. At least then you will be working with something that can actually give you good information for data logging and can be modified on the fly in a few moments with the press of a key.

Good post! Would it be terrible hard to adapt a motor to EFI instead of doing a whole EFI engine swap? I've looked at the MegaSquirt stuff, but I'd imagine you'd have to source throttle bodies, sensors, and a wiring harness at the minimum to make it work. I'd also imagine you'd have data-logging capabilities for every sensor, which would be pretty awesome. I bet you could even get a big bore motor to act nice and docile with enough tinkering.

 

[Qdude]

Thanks for your input.

You have my third.

I have very recently been talking to guys in the shops who say fuel analyzers will probably be at least 800. US$. Too much for my wishes, but I would be willing to pay around 400...

Thank you for all the good work you are doing on the research and reviews. I am still very interested in what you discover.

 

[Guest]

You have my third.

I have very recently been talking to guys in the shops who say fuel analyzers will probably be at least 800. US$. Too much for my wishes, but I would be willing to pay around 400...

Thank you for all the good work you are doing on the research and reviews. I am still very interested in what you discover.

You can get a afr and gauge for 175.00