Pics of frame bracing

[doctorgonzo]

People had asked for these in the past. You can see most of it in these photos. How does it ride... I'll tell you in a couple days. I have one more brake caliper to strip and reinstall, then off for my break in ride on the rebuilt motor.

Cross member on the front. You can see it behind the pipes.

Here you can see a cross bar in the triangle normally behind the side cover, the gusset along the curve at the top of the frame., and the R/R unit bolted to the X cross members behind the carbs.

Bike as it sat last night. The gussets near the headstock are visible, that's a Tarozzi forl brace over the fender, that's powdercoat on the starter cover.

 

[GregT]

Nicely done.
Never seen a G braced before - it looks like the frame crossmembers above & below the swingarm are closer to the arm than on a chaindrive frame, ever compared frames ?
If they are closer your X brace will make a difference - probably more so than on a chaindrive frame.

Greg T

 

[doctorgonzo]

Nicely done.
Never seen a G braced before - it looks like the frame crossmembers above & below the swingarm are closer to the arm than on a chaindrive frame, ever compared frames ?
If they are closer your X brace will make a difference - probably more so than on a chaindrive frame.

Greg T

Never compared to a non G frame, but you could be right. The only variations in what I did from the frame bracing article at oldskoolsuzuki are

1. I could not use tubing at the head stock (A), the tank wouldn't go over it, so I had to use a gusset for the upper bracing, even then I had to peen that gusset in a fair bit to get the tank to fit.

2. On the front behind the headers they put the one cross member then then they made a V with tubing above that (F). No way I could figure to put that V of tubing there without interfering with the headers so I just put the one piece of tubing horizontal across.

3. I just used tubing for (E) instead of welding the boxes out of metal.

Here is the diagram I followed.

Here are the gussets at steering head pre powder coat.

Another gusset just tacked on as I was fitting it.

 

[GregT]

Yes, I've seen that bracing layout before - and may yet do it on a customer GS1000 racebike.
The horizontal at E is usually done in 2in X 1in rectangular tube - a common size for swingarms on smaller bikes.
The front V brace can be varied to accomodate headers - but is really only worthwhile IMO if you have a lot of front grip - and braced forks to handle it.
Your gusseting at the steering head makes sense as I seem to have read that using the tubing option there usually means moving the coils. Not a prob on a racebike but a pain on a road bike.
It's going to be interesting to see what you think of the handling.

Greg T

 

[850 Combat]

Nice work.

 

[gsgeezer]

Thanks, too, for the great posts!
I'm saving the page in my GS tech folder

 

[Nessism]

Yup, nice work indeed!

This one strikes me as the critical one since the frame structure looks pretty skimpy in this area.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Yup, nice work indeed!

This one strikes me as the critical one since the frame structure looks pretty skimpy in this area.

I think so too. The frame had to flex like crazy in that area.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Yes, I've seen that bracing layout before - and may yet do it on a customer GS1000 racebike.
The horizontal at E is usually done in 2in X 1in rectangular tube - a common size for swingarms on smaller bikes.
The front V brace can be varied to accomodate headers - but is really only worthwhile IMO if you have a lot of front grip - and braced forks to handle it.
Your gusseting at the steering head makes sense as I seem to have read that using the tubing option there usually means moving the coils. Not a prob on a racebike but a pain on a road bike.
It's going to be interesting to see what you think of the handling.

Greg T

I am very interested to see also. I'd expect it to be stiff as hell with all the "hingey" feeling gone. It's got new bearings all around as well. It's certainly not a race bike (I mean it IS a "G"), but it's bored to 1074, with the 1100 head with the "D" exhaust ports, .03 decked off the head (maybe slightly higher compression), pods, and 4 into 1. The head was assembled by APE with seats recut, all new valves, springs, etc... I might be pushing 100 hp at the crank.

I'm stripping the calipers to bare aluminium and clear coating with wheel grade clear coat. I have one more to go as of last night (caliper), and then it's ready for a quick break in ride.

 

[posplayr]

I am very interested to see also. I'd expect it to be stiff as hell with all the "hingey" feeling gone. It's got new bearings all around as well. It's certainly not a race bike (I mean it IS a "G"), but it's bored to 1074, with the 1100 head with the "D" exhaust ports, .03 decked off the head (maybe slightly higher compression), pods, and 4 into 1. The head was assembled by APE with seats recut, all new valves, springs, etc... I might be pushing 100 hp at the crank.

I'm stripping the calipers to bare aluminium and clear coating with wheel grade clear coat. I have one more to go as of last night (caliper), and then it's ready for a quick break in ride.

Keep in mind that with those stock tires you are still going to get some wollowing due to the high profile (e.g. 130/90-XX). If you stay with stock wheels, the Avons Roadriders do have are a pretty round profile so the sidewall is pretty short and seem to give less flex in the turns.

On thing that I think seems to help is to raise the rear end to get more weight on the front tire and make sure the rear springs are stiff enough. On me ED, when the rear squated, it seemed to load the rear tire sidewall and cause a wallowing effect in the rear

This is an issue that going to a wider radial seems to improve significantly.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Keep in mind that with those stock tires you are still going to get some wollowing due to the high profile (e.g. 130/90-XX). If you stay with stock wheels, the Avons Roadriders do have are a pretty round profile so the sidewall is pretty short and seem to give less flex in the turns.

On thing that I think seems to help is to raise the rear end to get more weight on the front tire and make sure the rear springs are stiff enough. On me ED, when the rear squated, it seemed to load the rear tire sidewall and cause a wallowing effect in the rear

This is an issue that going to a wider radial seems to improve significantly.

Good info. It does have pretty new progressive... 412 series I think shocks on the rear and I keep them stiff as hell. Those are sport demon tires, so they do pretty well also. Like I said, it IS a G, never gonna handle like a cafe bike or anything. The one suspension piece missing is I haven't put progressive springs in the front yet.

 

[GregT]

The whole rear springing thing is a major compromise when it comes to shaft drive - at least the shaft setup on the G's. With a chain drive they do require some static sag and spring rates which allow this. The GS1000 racebike I look after had the typical stiff Koni springs and would top out readily under brakes and from there would swap ends on you - not fun.
Much better now with Progressive front & GS450 OE springs on the Koni's.
Well you use what you've got,don't you.
The shafties with their rise & fall have to have this limited in some way and unfortunately this usually means stiff rear springing. The only plus - and it's not a real good one - is that the much heavier unsprung weight at the rear,bevel drive etc, tends to keep the rear on the ground under brakes. Against this, once it's bounced off a bump, it will tend to go higher and stay off the ground longer - most shaftie owners will have experienced this (and hopefully stayed aboard) on a bumpy curve.
I agree with Posplayer about tyres and would suggest that the next step is probably better rubber - maybe on 17's in modern widths

Greg T

 

[doctorgonzo]

First impression is VERY good. Feels very stiff. Release the handle bar with no shake or tendency to go offline at all (expected I know, but as modded as it is that was not a given). Haven't blazed it through the twisties yet, but some pretty sharp turns at low speed (30 mph), and a few sweeping ones at maybe 50 mph, feels great so far. Once the engine is totally broken in I'll push it a little more.

 

[jwhelan65]

There is a lot of conversation on here regarding this topic and it is all very good useful information. However, I guess I am wondering why it is necessary? I am considering some bracing on my 1100e project but uncertain as to the hows and wheres. IMO some of the scaled up pics look a little overkill and some what bulky. It would be nice to know what is absolutely necessary and what is just a "how bout here" modification.

 

[TheCafeKid]

There is a lot of conversation on here regarding this topic and it is all very good useful information. However, I guess I am wondering why it is necessary? I am considering some bracing on my 1100e project but uncertain as to the hows and wheres. IMO some of the scaled up pics look a little overkill and some what bulky. It would be nice to know what is absolutely necessary and what is just a "how bout here" modification.

From everything I have read, C,D, and E are the MOST necessary, though the gusseting around the headstock would be helpfull. However, and this is just my opinion so take it for what its worth, I push my GSs pretty dang hard, and yes, I've felt some wallowing here and there, but only at REDICULOUS for road travel speeds, out in the country where I was a danger to no one but myself. Something I do not, nor intend to, replicate very often. Unless the bike is a "track and street" duty machine, I simply dont see the need for any of the bracing. But again, thats just my opinion.

 

[doctorgonzo]

There is a lot of conversation on here regarding this topic and it is all very good useful information. However, I guess I am wondering why it is necessary? I am considering some bracing on my 1100e project but uncertain as to the hows and wheres. IMO some of the scaled up pics look a little overkill and some what bulky.

I should have weighed all the pieces, but I didn't. I can tell you there is now way there is more than 10 lbs of metal total. I could more than compensate by taking off the center stand if I was going for all out performance.

These old frames (the design and materials) have a tendency to flex. It's sometimes described as a "hingy" feeling as you feel the frame flex underneath you. during hard acceleration, braking, and when there is a lot of centrifugal force on the bike. The idea (why new bikes heave delta frames) is to as directly tie the headstock to the swingarm pivots as possible. The size and placement of a GS engine limit what you can do. These plans ripped from this site.

http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/

Do about as much as you can with what you have to work with on GS frame.

 

[doctorgonzo]

From everything I have read, C,D, and E are the MOST necessary, though the gusseting around the headstock would be helpfull. However, and this is just my opinion so take it for what its worth, I push my GSs pretty dang hard, and yes, I've felt some wallowing here and there, but only at REDICULOUS for road travel speeds, out in the country where I was a danger to no one but myself. Something I do not, nor intend to, replicate very often. Unless the bike is a "track and street" duty machine, I simply dont see the need for any of the bracing. But again, thats just my opinion.

Short answer. I agree.

I had it down to the frame for fresh paint, I had a welder and free steel at my disposal, I kind of figured... eh... why not. If done right, it's not gonna hurt. I'm an acceleration guy. I'll ride the twisties, I ride in traffic, but I LOVE to find a nice long stretch of country road, and go from 30 to 130 as fast as I possibly can.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Short answer. I agree.

I had it down to the frame for fresh paint, I had a welder and free steel at my disposal, I kind of figured... eh... why not. If done right, it's not gonna hurt. I'm an acceleration guy. I'll ride the twisties, I ride in traffic, but I LOVE to find a nice long stretch of country road, and go from 30 to 130 as fast as I possibly can.

Oh given the circumstances, i would likely do the same, what the hell right? But Im not sure I would be quick to rush out and weld up every one of my GSs with the thought that its a necessary modification in order to make the bike handle more like a modern bike. Thats the only point I was trying to make, not trying to slight your efforts by any means. Its damn good work, and, like I said, if I were starting with a bike with ultimate performance in mind (which, knowing me, will probably be a project sooner or later..hehehe) I might do the same.

 

[jwhelan65]

From everything I have read, C,D, and E are the MOST necessary, though the gusseting around the headstock would be helpfull. However, and this is just my opinion so take it for what its worth, I push my GSs pretty dang hard, and yes, I've felt some wallowing here and there, but only at REDICULOUS for road travel speeds, out in the country where I was a danger to no one but myself. Something I do not, nor intend to, replicate very often. Unless the bike is a "track and street" duty machine, I simply dont see the need for any of the bracing. But again, thats just my opinion.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking on those same lines, it might make some sense if you are doing a frame off, but I think that rebuilding your front forks with better springs, new parts and a fresh set of rear shocks, along with a decent set of tires should make for a very stable ride. As far as the correlation to speed and the frame flexing I'm not sure I want to push my GS to that degree. If I want a to lean into a long sweeper at a buck 10, or rip a twisty it will be on me yamahopper(FZ1).

 

[doctorgonzo]

I'm looking around for a "super deal" right now, I mean a non-cruiser (sorry L riders) running bike with a title for under $500 kind of deal. If it's less than a 1000 I'm going to cafe it to the max, if it's 1000 or greater gonna build a street legal drag bike. Kawasaki 750Ks are kind of tempting me. front end is all wrong (cruiser), but that big ole 2 cylinder intrigues me. Frame won't work as is though.